Pontins told to stop screening Irish names

Pontins told to stop screening Irish names

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voyds9

7,765 posts

247 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
slow_poke said:
Interesting.

https://www.sfi.ie/research-news/news/new-study-on...

Irish Travellers genetics started drifting from the settled Irish population genetics 12 generations or 360 years ago, making them a separate ethnic group now.
You say genetic drift others could say inbreeding

mrporsche said:
The not pricing on gender when it can be demonstrated that certain genders are a better or worse risk is just nonsense.

For several years now you have been unable to exclude pregnancy after week 36 on travel polices, because men cant get pregnant so the policy is discriminatory. Even though there are increased risks between a 36 week pregnant women going on an 8 hour flight to the US vs a man who is not pregnant.
In today's modern society there are enough men with wombs that this can probably be reinstated

Armchair Expert

677 posts

38 months

Wednesday 3rd March
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JagLover said:
Armchair Expert said:
I don't understand why Roma gypsies are a ethnic group either?
Because they are?

They originated in Northern India and migrated to Europe. No doubt there has been much intermarriage since but they are a distinct ethnic group.
So they originated in India many hundreds of years ago so????

Go back far enough we are all ethnic minorities.

If you go to Europe, places like Italy, Poland, Germany the Roma are held in no better respect then the Irish travellers are in the UK.

Electro1980

2,206 posts

103 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
The Roma retain a distinct culture.

Armchair Expert

677 posts

38 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
slow_poke said:
Interesting.

https://www.sfi.ie/research-news/news/new-study-on...

Irish Travellers genetics started drifting from the settled Irish population genetics 12 generations or 360 years ago, making them a separate ethnic group now.
Skimming through the article if you use the criteria for separation then there are many religious communities who are ethnic minorities.

My family have been farmers for generations and until very recently they had little to do with outside their community usually marrying within the village or nearby villages, so does that make me a ethnic minority of farmer?????

Electro1980

2,206 posts

103 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
SpeckledJim said:
Electro1980 said:
Type R Tom said:
Electro1980 said:
Type R Tom said:
Do pub licensing laws allow refusal of service due to any reason? I've been turned away from a bar due to age, sexual orientation, race and gender over the years. Not that I would stand and argue the Equalities Act with a bouncer but those points have been the sole reason to refuse service.
No one is allowed to discriminate for any of those reasons unless there is an objective justification (for example baring under 18s when it is part of the licensing conditions).

All of those, with the possible exception of age, would likely be illegal.
That was kind of my point, I bet companies make "business" decisions all the time that are probably illegal, 99% probably get away with it. I guess if you are going to discriminate, you better make sure you have a water tight back up for when someone complains.
People and companies brake the law all the time. That doesn’t make it right.
It seems Pontins can demonstrate that there are twenty-ish surnames who, on average, cause a disproportionate amount of damage, theft, and assaults in their hotels.

Banning those surnames is very sensible, from the point of view of trying to run a business, isn't it?

And if, behind that data, those 20 surnames happen to all be prevalent Irish traveller names, then that's just the most gigantic fluke, isn't it, because we know that travellers behave as well as everyone else. We know it is every bit as likely that the Patels and the Fujikawas and the Fortescue-Smythes would be raising hell at Pontins as the O'Donaghs.

The hotelier isn't going to come up with this very embarrassing and illegal policy for any other reason than they're absolutely desperate to keep certain people out of their hotels. Hoteliers don't generally try this hard, breaking the law, to keep people OUT of their hotels, so what can be motivating them?

Is it to be mean and nasty racists for no reason? Or is it just to try to stay in business?
It’s discrimination however you put it. It might shift it from direct to indirect discrimination, but either way it’s illegal.

You may not like it but treating people differently because of their race is racist, no matter the reason. It is no different to the days of “no blacks no Irish” or a shop owner refusing to be wheelchair accessible.

Sahjahd

276 posts

9 months

Wednesday 3rd March
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Eric Mc said:
So, in your eyes - acting illegally is OK as long as the economics weigh up?
Acting illegally is ok, necessary even, when the law defies common sense.

JagLover

33,587 posts

199 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
Electro1980 said:
You may not like it but treating people differently because of their race is racist, no matter the reason. .
That is true enough, but this is treating a different group differently not a different race.

Irish travellers are the same as all the other Irish racially (with some inbreeding) and the Irish themselves are genetic cousins of many inhabitants of the UK, even excluding those descended from more recent migration.

If an anti-social group are banned this reflects on them not on the supposed "racism" of those doing the banning.

mrporsche

504 posts

6 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
Electro1980 said:
The Roma retain a distinct culture.
Would that be one a low work ethic high crime rate and a general disdain for society’s norms and values ?

mrporsche

504 posts

6 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
Electro1980 said:
It’s discrimination however you put it. It might shift it from direct to indirect discrimination, but either way it’s illegal.

You may not like it but treating people differently because of their race is racist, no matter the reason. It is no different to the days of “no blacks no Irish” or a shop owner refusing to be wheelchair accessible.
Is it discrimination purely on the fact that they are an ethnic group ?


mrporsche

504 posts

6 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
JagLover said:
That is true enough, but this is treating a different group differently not a different race.

Irish travellers are the same as all the other Irish racially (with some inbreeding) and the Irish themselves are genetic cousins of many inhabitants of the UK, even excluding those descended from more recent migration.

If an anti-social group are banned this reflects on them not on the supposed "racism" of those doing the banning.
They aren’t banned because they are Irish travellers they are banned because of their behaviour and attitude.



Jaguar steve

7,194 posts

174 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
slow_poke said:
Jaguar steve said:
Corralejo Beach?

Found out the hard way some 25 years ago that particular hotel was popular with Irish and after our experience staying there along with with several extended Irish families, all best buddies one moment and the next shift-faced drunk and causing carnage I can see exactly why Ponins isn't ready to welcome them with open arms.

Included in the holiday highlights was one of their brats throwing up off a balcony onto sunbathers below, the Guarda Civil arresting two idiots after a punch up broke out out one evening outside the restaurant and being woken every night by arguing and shouting when the bar closed. The hotel staff had to repeatedly fish sun loungers out of the pool and tidy up tons of litter and dropped fag ends and we ended up having to use the stairs as the lifts were turned off because their kids wouldn't stop playing in them.

A thoroughly unpleasant experience.
Were you also pissed off at the Germans hogging all the sun loungers before the crack of dawn?
Don't be silly.

IME the Germans and Scandinavians are generally far better behaved than the British and Irish in the Canaries.

Electro1980

2,206 posts

103 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
JagLover said:
Electro1980 said:
You may not like it but treating people differently because of their race is racist, no matter the reason. .
That is true enough, but this is treating a different group differently not a different race.

Irish travellers are the same as all the other Irish racially (with some inbreeding) and the Irish themselves are genetic cousins of many inhabitants of the UK, even excluding those descended from more recent migration.

If an anti-social group are banned this reflects on them not on the supposed "racism" of those doing the banning.
What you think they are doesn’t matter, they are recognised as a distinct ethnic group.

And, yes, it is racism. The attempt to identify them by such a blunt means is, in itself, an issue. A bigger issue is treating the behaviour of some as reason to ban all people of a racial group. That is the very definition of racism and no different to the days of “no blacks no Irish”

Tom Logan

2,744 posts

89 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
mrporsche said:
Electro1980 said:
The Roma retain a distinct culture.
Would that be one a low work ethic high crime rate and a general disdain for society’s norms and values ?
The Roma are detested in Romania where many of them are settled, for the exact reasons stated above.

Many of them who come to the UK also have the same lifestyle ethic.

Electro1980

2,206 posts

103 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
mrporsche said:
JagLover said:
That is true enough, but this is treating a different group differently not a different race.

Irish travellers are the same as all the other Irish racially (with some inbreeding) and the Irish themselves are genetic cousins of many inhabitants of the UK, even excluding those descended from more recent migration.

If an anti-social group are banned this reflects on them not on the supposed "racism" of those doing the banning.
They aren’t banned because they are Irish travellers they are banned because of their behaviour and attitude.
The ban was aimed at an entire ethnic group because of the behaviour of some. That is no different to banning English people from Spain and Greece.

mrporsche

504 posts

6 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
Tom Logan said:
mrporsche said:
Electro1980 said:
The Roma retain a distinct culture.
Would that be one a low work ethic high crime rate and a general disdain for society’s norms and values ?
The Roma are detested in Romania where many of them are settled, for the exact reasons stated above.

Many of them who come to the UK also have the same lifestyle ethic.
Romanians are the most represented EU nationality in Europe's prison system...


mrporsche

504 posts

6 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
Electro1980 said:
The ban was aimed at an entire ethnic group because of the behaviour of some. That is no different to banning English people from Spain and Greece.
You're not going to point out that you have met one once and they were quite nice?

I would question whether it was the behaviour of some, i imagine all travelers that have visited pontins have caused problems, which is representative of their entire population.


SpeckledJim

24,990 posts

217 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
Electro1980 said:
mrporsche said:
JagLover said:
That is true enough, but this is treating a different group differently not a different race.

Irish travellers are the same as all the other Irish racially (with some inbreeding) and the Irish themselves are genetic cousins of many inhabitants of the UK, even excluding those descended from more recent migration.

If an anti-social group are banned this reflects on them not on the supposed "racism" of those doing the banning.
They aren’t banned because they are Irish travellers they are banned because of their behaviour and attitude.
The ban was aimed at an entire ethnic group because of the behaviour of some. That is no different to banning English people from Spain and Greece.
Are Pontins going out of their way to break the law to persecute an ethnic minority for no specific reason, or are they doing this to protect their business and their normal customers?

If these 20 families are no trouble, then why would pontins break the law to try to filter them out?

Glassman

21,103 posts

179 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
Darth Paul said:
Armchair Expert said:
How is it that travellers became ethnic minorities is beyond me?
I believe that was another one of Teflon Tony’s legacy’s, but I stand to be corrected.
Okay then; legacies.



Electro1980

2,206 posts

103 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
SpeckledJim said:
Are Pontins going out of their way to break the law to persecute an ethnic minority for no specific reason, or are they doing this to protect their business and their normal customers?

If these 20 families are no trouble, then why would pontins break the law to try to filter them out?
I refer you back to “no blacks no Irish”.

Again, what they may think or what their reasoning may be, to treat an entire ethnic group differently because of the actions of some is illegal racial discrimination. You can think what you want but that doesn’t change the facts.

Edited by Electro1980 on Wednesday 3rd March 19:11

anonymoususer

1,607 posts

12 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
Electro1980 said:
The Roma retain a distinct culture.
Pale skin pencil skirts and terrible at shoplifting