Pontins told to stop screening Irish names

Pontins told to stop screening Irish names

Author
Discussion

rix

2,353 posts

154 months

Tuesday 2nd March
quotequote all
So, and excuse my daily mail esque logic, an insurance company can ask you a load of questions based on personal details, including gender but I guess not race, and provide a price based on perceived risk but could a hotel or any other business not do the same? I appreciate its not exactly good PR but what factors can be considered part of 'risking' and what factors are alternatively off limits?

AJL308

4,742 posts

120 months

Tuesday 2nd March
quotequote all
CAPP0 said:
Armchair Expert said:
How is it that travellers became ethnic minorities is beyond me?
I'm led to believe that the basic reason for this (there is probably more detail available) is that the trouble-making Irish travellers, who in my view are an entirely different and separate group to the "real" gypsies and others, cosied up to the Roma and paid that group's legal fees when they (the Roma) set out to attain their ethnic minority status, on condition that they were included. So now, you can live in a big house in Rathkeale (other traveller towns/villages are available) when the weather's a bit st, but come over here at will and behave like utter twunts with your R-card safe in your back pocket if anyone dare call you out for your utter twuntishness.

It still beggars belief that a group who not only contribute absolutely zero to society in general but in fact disrupt and destroy with impunity any part of said society they feel like, are allowed to exist and function like they do with little or no comeback, and scream "racist" if you dare so much as glance in their direction.
The analogy I've used before is that of the US Mafia. Both groups are essentially organised crime communities; if "Il Cosa Nostra" tried to convince the world that they should be granted protected ethnic status do we honestly think that people would happily accept it? They meet that criteria as much as "Travellers" do, as far as I can see.

anonymoususer

1,607 posts

12 months

Tuesday 2nd March
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It's thje breasts that are a threat. They are enticing. Its because of stuff like KFC I believe

Electro1980

2,206 posts

103 months

Tuesday 2nd March
quotequote all
rix said:
So, and excuse my daily mail esque logic, an insurance company can ask you a load of questions based on personal details, including gender but I guess not race, and provide a price based on perceived risk but could a hotel or any other business not do the same? I appreciate its not exactly good PR but what factors can be considered part of 'risking' and what factors are alternatively off limits?
Insurance cannot price based on gender, or race.

ralphrj

3,083 posts

155 months

Tuesday 2nd March
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Darth Paul said:
Armchair Expert said:
How is it that travellers became ethnic minorities is beyond me?
I believe that was another one of Teflon Tony’s legacy’s, but I stand to be corrected.
My understanding (but also happy to be corrected) was that it was something unintentional that followed from the Human Rights Act 1998. I don't think that the legislation necessarily mentions Travellers or was drafted with them in mind but instead, once it became law, Travellers were able to argue in court that they were a race of people and entitled to protection from discrimination, and the court agreed.

Dr Doofenshmirtz

12,722 posts

164 months

Tuesday 2nd March
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We went to Pontins Brean sands 15 years ago. Honestly it was an absolute dive. Horrendous accommodation and even more horrendous clientele. Dreadful place. Having go likeies staying there couldn't possibly make it worse.

TwigtheWonderkid

35,181 posts

114 months

Tuesday 2nd March
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DaveCWK said:
A ban on commercial vehicles is fair enough, but the banning all the names that happen to be popular amongst traveller families does seem a bit extreme!?
Absolutely. Banning vans and pick ups, that's fine. Commercial vehicle owners are not protected by discrimination. But banning certain Irish names, is ridiculous. I know someone with one of the names on the list, and he's not even Irish (although I guess his great grandfather or whatever might have been.)

But he usually holidays at his villa in Tuscany, and even if he didn't have his own villa there, I'm not sure Pontins have a centre in Tuscany anyway.

What they could do is ask for your occupation on the application, and put a ban on tarmac layers, driveway installers, heather sellers, etc. That would be legal I should think.

poo at Paul's

10,576 posts

139 months

Tuesday 2nd March
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Tom Logan said:
Preston you say?

I hope you were handed a stab vest when you checked in.
It was a bit special, that's for sure! The most noticeable bit though was how early in the evening all the bother started!! Oh, two adjoinging rooms rented for what was about 35 kids to all look after themselves during the shenanigans! Utter carnage!

crankedup

25,732 posts

207 months

Tuesday 2nd March
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Having attended tens of hundreds of steam rallies I can say that the genuine gypsies are an alright
group of people. Over the years I have found many friends in the gypsy community, I can tell you that the decent gypsies absolutely detest those that give them the bad name, and all are brushed with the same brush. Small minority perhaps, and I’m talking here of genuine gypsy folk.
Just wanted to say that for some balance.

Taylor James

3,111 posts

25 months

Tuesday 2nd March
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ralphrj said:
Darth Paul said:
Armchair Expert said:
How is it that travellers became ethnic minorities is beyond me?
I believe that was another one of Teflon Tony’s legacy’s, but I stand to be corrected.
My understanding (but also happy to be corrected) was that it was something unintentional that followed from the Human Rights Act 1998. I don't think that the legislation necessarily mentions Travellers or was drafted with them in mind but instead, once it became law, Travellers were able to argue in court that they were a race of people and entitled to protection from discrimination, and the court agreed.
Do you know what is required to claim this status? For example, where you live, canine affiliation, DNA test, famiial history, etc.

NextSlidePlease

5,624 posts

105 months

Tuesday 2nd March
quotequote all
I'm on the list, but i would rather st in my hands and clap than visit a Pontins so i won't get too upset about it.

I do see what they are trying to achieve, and i sympathise with them to a certain extent, but their approach has a whiff of the 80's about it all the same. It would have been easier to say "no Irish" than list the top 40 surnames in Ireland.


Edited by NextSlidePlease on Tuesday 2nd March 23:33

CAPP0

17,622 posts

167 months

Tuesday 2nd March
quotequote all
Taylor James said:
Do you know what is required to claim this status?
Judging by the extent to which their numbers appeared to have swollen in the past couple of years, when the moderately-feckless realised they could act at will if they declared themselves to be travellers, a cod-irish accent, a penchant for constant criminality, a willingness to fight anyone who challenges you over anything at all, and most importantly a Tourette-like use of the word "racist" appear to be adequate grounds for declaring one's travelling ethnicity (and the resultant exemption from rules, laws and social mores).

XCP

15,491 posts

192 months

Tuesday 2nd March
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If a pub can get away with excluding football supporters ( Many do), and nightclubs can exclude anyone they don't like the look of, I don't see why Pontins can't exclude travellers or whatever they are.

I once stayed at a Pontins at Bournemouth. There was a cigarette burn in the bath.

craigjm

12,064 posts

164 months

Tuesday 2nd March
quotequote all
ralphrj said:
Darth Paul said:
Armchair Expert said:
How is it that travellers became ethnic minorities is beyond me?
I believe that was another one of Teflon Tony’s legacy’s, but I stand to be corrected.
My understanding (but also happy to be corrected) was that it was something unintentional that followed from the Human Rights Act 1998. I don't think that the legislation necessarily mentions Travellers or was drafted with them in mind but instead, once it became law, Travellers were able to argue in court that they were a race of people and entitled to protection from discrimination, and the court agreed.
You are wrong because Romany gypsies and Irish travellers were legally recognised as ethnic groups by the 1976 Race Relations Act and were recognised in case law in 1989 and 2000 respectively. It was nothing to do with the HRA or Tony Blair as mentioned earlier.

SpeckledJim

24,990 posts

217 months

Tuesday 2nd March
quotequote all
TwigtheWonderkid said:
DaveCWK said:
A ban on commercial vehicles is fair enough, but the banning all the names that happen to be popular amongst traveller families does seem a bit extreme!?
Absolutely. Banning vans and pick ups, that's fine. Commercial vehicle owners are not protected by discrimination. But banning certain Irish names, is ridiculous. I know someone with one of the names on the list, and he's not even Irish (although I guess his great grandfather or whatever might have been.)

But he usually holidays at his villa in Tuscany, and even if he didn't have his own villa there, I'm not sure Pontins have a centre in Tuscany anyway.

What they could do is ask for your occupation on the application, and put a ban on tarmac layers, driveway installers, heather sellers, etc. That would be legal I should think.
They would just lie about occupation.

If you had a section of your customer base who cost you far, far more than they made you, how else would you try to filter them out?

Every business tries to find ways to discourage or sack their worst customers and it’s not easy.

Armchair Expert

678 posts

38 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
CAPP0 said:
I'm led to believe that the basic reason for this (there is probably more detail available) is that the trouble-making Irish travellers, who in my view are an entirely different and separate group to the "real" gypsies and others, cosied up to the Roma and paid that group's legal fees when they (the Roma) set out to attain their ethnic minority status, on condition that they were included. So now, you can live in a big house in Rathkeale (other traveller towns/villages are available) when the weather's a bit st, but come over here at will and behave like utter twunts with your R-card safe in your back pocket if anyone dare call you out for your utter twuntishness.

It still beggars belief that a group who not only contribute absolutely zero to society in general but in fact disrupt and destroy with impunity any part of said society they feel like, are allowed to exist and function like they do with little or no comeback, and scream "racist" if you dare so much as glance in their direction.
I don't understand why Roma gypsies are a ethnic group either?


NextSlidePlease

5,624 posts

105 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
XCP said:
If a pub can get away with excluding football supporters ( Many do), and nightclubs can exclude anyone they don't like the look of, I don't see why Pontins can't exclude travellers or whatever they are.

I once stayed at a Pontins at Bournemouth. There was a cigarette burn in the bath.
Yes but this is done with surnames before they even pull up at the gates, a very primitive approach that casts a much wider net than just the travellers.




vulture1

8,413 posts

143 months

Wednesday 3rd March
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Ever been to alton towers on easter holiday weekend. That is an eye opener...

hidetheelephants

16,943 posts

157 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
NextSlidePlease said:
I'm on the list, but i would rather st in my hands and clap than visit a Pontins so i won't get too upset about it.

I do see what they are trying to achieve, and i sympathise with them to a certain extent, but their approach has a whiff of the 80's about it all the same. It would have been easier to say "no Irish" than list the top 40 surnames in Ireland.
Your appointment to be chairman of the EHRC will no doubt be announced shortly. rofl

ChocolateFrog

11,864 posts

137 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
I can only imagine all the folk who bend of backwards to help this poor discriminated community of misunderstood people have never had a settlement pop up in their village.

Pontins could use a bit of training in subtly mind.