No evidence the UK is institutionally racist

[Unknown_User]

jimbobs said:

The schools report is just another example of this government blaming someone else for its own failings.

The failures in education are caused by years of chronic underfunding as a result of Tory austerity. This hits the poor (and thus, the white working class poor) hardest. Sadly, Boris and his chums would rather blame lefty teachers for the problem than own up to their own failings.

This is the government, remember, who appointed an expert to help target education policy post pandemic and then forced him to resign when they offered him 10% of the funding he needed.

But it’s ok to spaff £200m on a big boat with a Union Jack on it, apparently…

Great post and only a buffoon (or an Ultra) would argue with the points jimbobs make.

[Trackdayer]

Drumroll said:

So being a single parent and poor is a life choice?

Absolutely.

[98elise]

Electro1980 said:

I don’t believe that is a class issue personally. I think it’s a city vs town and country issue. The vast majority of ethnic minority poor are located in cities. They and the schools have access to vast public resources. I had a middle class upbringing. I went to a minor public school until the age of 9 or 10 (I forgot exactly what age) then moved to a state school. This was in the late 80s in a mining area that was blighted by the loss of the pits and the steel industry.

I clearly remember seeing programs about “poor inner city” children going to city farms and youth clubs with initiatives to get children in to all sorts of music, sport, dance, performing arts etc. And thinking “what about us”. They talked about these children not having access to the countryside and I remember thinking, even as a young teen, that those living in the countryside don’t go roaming around farms and riding horses. Most of it is fenced off and is as remote to us as it is to someone who lives in Peckham or Tower Hamlets.

I think too many people view the countryside as a lovely rural Turner painting and have no idea of the lack of opportunity there for the young. I also think anything that isn’t a large city gets lumped in with this in the mind of many in power, and they don’t see that 10 miles to a child may as well be the other side of the world.

I've never understood why someone living in London is considered deprived. You live in one of the most vibrant and rich cities in the world, with 1000's of well paid jobs. Its a place I cannot afford to live in so if you live there, have food on the table and access to education, you should be thriving.

When you enter the workforce you won't have a 2 hour commute costing you 5k a year.

[jimbobs]

Trackdayer said:

We're in agreement then.

Here's a crazy right-wing idea - maybe parents should be responsible for giving their kids the best start in life?

So how do we break this vicious circle then? Do we just write off the underclass and let them fester in their sink estates? Or do we try and do something positive to make their lives (and the whole of society) better, wealthier and more rewarding?

[Trackdayer]

jimbobs said:

So how do we break this vicious circle then? Do we just write off the underclass and let them fester in their sink estates? Or do we try and do something positive to make their lives (and the whole of society) better, wealthier and more rewarding?

That's a good question.

Firstly I think personal responsibility is the key and understanding the world owes us nothing. Victimhood mentality gets you nowhere.

Secondly it's all about parenting. Raising kids to be confident, ambitious, competitive and full of integrity. Make them understand they can succeed with hard work and planning.

Thirdly remove "lifestyle" benefit claims. Propping a person up in the long term is wrong. Benefits are a safety net for short term issues.

[Drumroll]

Trackdayer said:

jimbobs said:

So how do we break this vicious circle then? Do we just write off the underclass and let them fester in their sink estates? Or do we try and do something positive to make their lives (and the whole of society) better, wealthier and more rewarding?

That's a good question.

Firstly I think personal responsibility is the key and understanding the world owes us nothing. Victimhood mentality gets you nowhere.

Secondly it's all about parenting. Raising kids to be confident, ambitious, competitive and full of integrity. Make them understand they can succeed with hard work and planning.

Thirdly remove "lifestyle" benefit claims. Propping a person up in the long term is wrong. Benefits are a safety net for short term issues.

What a load of idealistic rubbish.

How are you going to raise confident, ambitious, children when you live in a one bedroom flat that is falling to pieces and despite working jobs that are low paid you still can't afford to move. if you allow your kids to go out to play the only play area is full of gang members etc.

Thats why it is idealistic rubbish, you totally ignore the starting point.

[ZedLeg]

Drumroll said:

Trackdayer said:

jimbobs said:

So how do we break this vicious circle then? Do we just write off the underclass and let them fester in their sink estates? Or do we try and do something positive to make their lives (and the whole of society) better, wealthier and more rewarding?

That's a good question.

Firstly I think personal responsibility is the key and understanding the world owes us nothing. Victimhood mentality gets you nowhere.

Secondly it's all about parenting. Raising kids to be confident, ambitious, competitive and full of integrity. Make them understand they can succeed with hard work and planning.

Thirdly remove "lifestyle" benefit claims. Propping a person up in the long term is wrong. Benefits are a safety net for short term issues.

What a load of idealistic rubbish.

How are you going to raise confident, ambitious, children when you live in a one bedroom flat that is falling to pieces and despite working jobs that are low paid you still can't afford to move. if you allow your kids to go out to play the only play area is full of gang members etc.

Thats why it is idealistic rubbish, you totally ignore the starting point.

Aye, what the country as a whole needs is real investment in social housing and care.

For too long the poor and working class have been set against each other by successive governments to distract from the fact that the neglect of the government is fking them all over.

[Trackdayer]

The government didn't make the fathers choose to walk out of their kids lives.

The government didn't make the kids choose to skive school

The government didn't make the kids not pay attention in lesson or try hard

The government didn't make the parents spend their money on tattoos, fags, lottery etc instead of university for their kids!

The government didn't turn the parents into drug addicts or alcoholics

The government didn't force kids to join a gang

There are countless common themes of POOR PERSONAL CHOICES that have absolutely nothing to do with government. It's pure free will.

Removing people's agency is patronising. Of course we have free will to better ourselves. Do you not realise that plenty of millionaires and top professionals come from humble roots? The difference between them and the masses is down to their parenting and their LIFE CHOICES. Certain sections of society need to look inwards as to why they aren't achieving and stop blaming everyone but themselves.

[Unknown_User]

Trackdayer said:

The government didn't make the fathers choose to walk out of their kids lives.

The government didn't make the kids choose to skive school

The government didn't make the kids not pay attention in lesson or try hard

The government didn't make the parents spend their money on tattoos, fags, lottery etc instead of university for their kids!

The government didn't turn the parents into drug addicts or alcoholics

The government didn't force kids to join a gang

There are countless common themes of POOR PERSONAL CHOICES that have absolutely nothing to do with government. It's pure free will.

Removing people's agency is patronising. Of course we have free will to better ourselves. Do you not realise that plenty of millionaires and top professionals come from humble roots? The difference between them and the masses is down to their parenting and their LIFE CHOICES. Certain sections of society need to look inwards as to why they aren't achieving and stop blaming everyone but themselves.

Can you point out where anyone has claimed the Gov have done any of the above?

[Drumroll]

Trackdayer said:

The government didn't make the fathers choose to walk out of their kids lives.

The government didn't make the kids choose to skive school

The government didn't make the kids not pay attention in lesson or try hard

The government didn't make the parents spend their money on tattoos, fags, lottery etc instead of university for their kids!

The government didn't turn the parents into drug addicts or alcoholics

The government didn't force kids to join a gang

There are countless common themes of POOR PERSONAL CHOICES that have absolutely nothing to do with government. It's pure free will.

Removing people's agency is patronising. Of course we have free will to better ourselves. Do you not realise that plenty of millionaires and top professionals come from humble roots? The difference between them and the masses is down to their parenting and their LIFE CHOICES. Certain sections of society need to look inwards as to why they aren't achieving and stop blaming everyone but themselves.

So how do we get to your idealistic right-wing world then?

Do we just kill off those that don't fit your ideal then?

Do we put them in one area and let them sort themselves out?

[pquinn]

ZedLeg said:

For too long the poor and working class have been set against each other

Top grade polemic.

Of course it might be someone else's fault. Or it might just be that some people are less able than others, that this is an inherent trait, and that this reflects across generations.

You aren't necessarily (relatively) poor because your parents were poor and you lived in the wrong place, but you could just get the same outcome for the same reasons.

Or it could just be that it's all politicians fault? Or the teachers. Or someone else?

And it isn't a city/country thing. The country was never traditionally rich anyway. But what you do get (if you ever paid attention to your lessons) is incoming poor populations displacing the existing ones - so certain areas will be poor not because of the people, or because people get disadvantaged by being there, but because that's the place they can afford and gradually congregate.

Whitty has been drawing the same (wrong) conclusion about health outcomes in certain areas bring persistent over 150+ years while ignoring the shifting demographics behind them.

[Fast and Spurious]

Unknown_User said:

jimbobs said:

The schools report is just another example of this government blaming someone else for its own failings.

The failures in education are caused by years of chronic underfunding as a result of Tory austerity. This hits the poor (and thus, the white working class poor) hardest. Sadly, Boris and his chums would rather blame lefty teachers for the problem than own up to their own failings.

This is the government, remember, who appointed an expert to help target education policy post pandemic and then forced him to resign when they offered him 10% of the funding he needed.

But it’s ok to spaff £200m on a big boat with a Union Jack on it, apparently…

Great post and only a buffoon (or an Ultra) would argue with the points jimbobs make.

What austerity? Did spending reduce?

[Unknown_User]

Fast and Spurious said:

Unknown_User said:

jimbobs said:

The schools report is just another example of this government blaming someone else for its own failings.

The failures in education are caused by years of chronic underfunding as a result of Tory austerity. This hits the poor (and thus, the white working class poor) hardest. Sadly, Boris and his chums would rather blame lefty teachers for the problem than own up to their own failings.

This is the government, remember, who appointed an expert to help target education policy post pandemic and then forced him to resign when they offered him 10% of the funding he needed.

But it’s ok to spaff £200m on a big boat with a Union Jack on it, apparently…

Great post and only a buffoon (or an Ultra) would argue with the points jimbobs make.

What austerity? Did spending reduce?

Oh my days....!

https://ifs.org.uk/publications/15025

With over a decade of tory dominated government, school spending per pupil in England fell by 9% in real terms between 2009–10 and 2019–20. This represents the largest cut in over 40 years.

[Trackdayer]

Drumroll said:

So how do we get to your idealistic right-wing world then?

Do we just kill off those that don't fit your ideal then?

Do we put them in one area and let them sort themselves out?

Is it right-wing to believe people have free will? Or just a basic fact of existence?

I don't think there's anything you or I can do for these people. Much like trying to help an obese person it's pointless as it has to come from within.

[Trackdayer]

Unknown_User said:

Can you point out where anyone has claimed the Gov have done any of the above?

Scroll up. In recent posts people are blaming the government for the failure of certain sections of society. I am pointing out a few of the root causes of this failure, none of which are government.

[Unknown_User]

Trackdayer said:

Unknown_User said:

Can you point out where anyone has claimed the Gov have done any of the above?

Scroll up. In recent posts people are blaming the government for the failure of certain sections of society. I am pointing out a few of the root causes of this failure, none of which are government.

Yes the government has failed certain sections of society but that isn't what you claimed is it.

Failure to provide adequate housing is the fault of the government whereas those fathers that choose to walk out of their kids lives isn't.

[Unknown_User]

Trackdayer said:

Is it right-wing to believe people have free will? Or just a basic fact of existence?

I don't think there's anything you or I can do for these people. Much like trying to help an obese person it's pointless as it has to come from within.

Plenty of medical reasons why people are obese, should we give up on them because of something out of their control?

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/underactive-thyroid-...

[Trackdayer]

Unknown_User said:

Yes the government has failed certain sections of society but that isn't what you claimed is it.

Failure to provide adequate housing is the fault of the government whereas those fathers that choose to walk out of their kids lives isn't.

That's interesting. I've seen the recent stories of these horrid flats, almost all in London and I wondered why these people feel so entitled to have their housing in the UK's most expensive city paid for by people like me.

If they don't like it, they are free to leave. Maybe get a job and pay their own way in the world. Like most of us do.

[Drumroll]

Trackdayer said:

Unknown_User said:

Can you point out where anyone has claimed the Gov have done any of the above?

Scroll up. In recent posts people are blaming the government for the failure of certain sections of society. I am pointing out a few of the root causes of this failure, none of which are government.

But you choose to ignore that the government does have a certain amount of responsibility for those failings. just as you seek to blame those terrible parent(s) for all life's ill you steadfastly seem to ignore the state's role in all of this.

[Trackdayer]

Drumroll said:

But you choose to ignore that the government does have a certain amount of responsibility for those failings. just as you seek to blame those terrible parent(s) for all life's ill you steadfastly seem to ignore the state's role in all of this.

I don't think the government have failed. It's all relative. Relative to most other countries we have a great standard of living in almost every metric. Excluding London this is one of the best places to live on earth.

Other people clearly don't think the Tories have failed either. That's evidenced by the landslide election result. This nationalistic, "little England", capitalist govt. led by Boris is hugely popular!