Are Universities now just woke nurseries.
Discussion
Sheets Tabuer said:
snipped
The problem is the young learn a little then think they know a lot.
That some information they have just learnt is new knowledge to the rest of the human race and they must spread it far and wide, with age comes the wisdom that the rest of the population already knew it they just couldn't give a f
k.
Twas ever thus.The problem is the young learn a little then think they know a lot.
That some information they have just learnt is new knowledge to the rest of the human race and they must spread it far and wide, with age comes the wisdom that the rest of the population already knew it they just couldn't give a f
k.Electro1980 said:
Emeye said:
From what my son and the children of my friends have experienced this is happening at secondary schools, so I suspect what we hear is happening at Universities is not just right-wing propaganda.
It's the usual I support free speech until I disagree with you and find it offensive, which we see all over social media - I doubt universities are free of it as it is coming into the work environment too.
You mean people complaining they are not allowed to be racist.It's the usual I support free speech until I disagree with you and find it offensive, which we see all over social media - I doubt universities are free of it as it is coming into the work environment too.
e.g.
Someone disagrees with taking the knee, they get branded a racist.
Someone supports brexit, they get branded a racist.
Someone stands up for the palestinians, they get branded as Anti-semitic.
Someone stands up for someone elses free speech being impinged, it is automatically assumed they have the same opinion.
Practical example:
My son RE class being told they can be open and share any opinion they want to bring to the table, until the teacher disagrees and sends him out of the class for saying that all the character in the Simpsons cartoon are based on stereotypes, so we shouldn't be selective on which of the stereotypes we find offensive.
And then my friend's daughter was told she would be put on a "new hope" (WFT? Apparently this is the new caring sharing name for a detention) for accidentally calling the brand new supply teacher Miss instead of the pronoun of Mx, which she had demanded the class all call her, and then changing the subject being taught to transgender rights. Sounds like indoctrination when there is a threat associated.
Pothole said:
Type R Tom said:
Pothole said:
Type R Tom said:
I don't know if this is true or just right wing propaganda but I do have concerns about things like white supremacy / privilege, critical race theory, patriarchy, some transgender issues etc being taught as fact instead of debated as an opinion.
Best address those concerns by finding out whether it's true, don't you think? Silly to "have concerns" about possible fantasy.https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/nov/13/...
"I think the new 3 series boot is a bit small"
"Go find out"
"Well yes I probably will but just was interested in other peoples opinions and experiences"
Been some good answers so far, and the unvarnished truth is that the FE sector in general, and probably all institutions in isolation are like the curate's egg, "Good in parts." Which of course implies not so good in others.
Couple of areas that I really do not like, first one fault of universities, is the drift towards really pandering towards judging performance by student satisfaction scores, which results in some strange policies being implemented.
Secondly, not the fault of universities but parents and society in general. Some, many(?) students are well rounded when they arrive, yet too many are just still little babies with no or little resistance or strength to the trials and tribulations of just dealing with modern life. There's even talk in some areas of the university now being legally onsidered 'in loco parentis' and actively taking on that role. This is wrong imo, mollycoddling, they're adults. Cases of incoming phone calls about postgrad admissions, be it Masters or DPhil where the applicant has to get their mother to call on their behalf. Supposedly adults FFS.
Yes we now recognise that brain development carries on well into twenties, and it's necessary that some folks need to be protected from themselves, but seriously.
Also one final point, cheating by paying others to do coursework, maybe it just passed me by back in the day, but
Couple of areas that I really do not like, first one fault of universities, is the drift towards really pandering towards judging performance by student satisfaction scores, which results in some strange policies being implemented.
Secondly, not the fault of universities but parents and society in general. Some, many(?) students are well rounded when they arrive, yet too many are just still little babies with no or little resistance or strength to the trials and tribulations of just dealing with modern life. There's even talk in some areas of the university now being legally onsidered 'in loco parentis' and actively taking on that role. This is wrong imo, mollycoddling, they're adults. Cases of incoming phone calls about postgrad admissions, be it Masters or DPhil where the applicant has to get their mother to call on their behalf. Supposedly adults FFS.
Yes we now recognise that brain development carries on well into twenties, and it's necessary that some folks need to be protected from themselves, but seriously.
Also one final point, cheating by paying others to do coursework, maybe it just passed me by back in the day, but
williamp said:
Yes, twas always thus...
But before the very recent, everyone woild just goll their eyes and carry on. Now, for some reason, they are listened and taken far more seriously then they should be..
Only because certain media outlets give them the time of day as it appeals to the ‘frothier’ end of their readership and at the end of day, clicks pays the rent.But before the very recent, everyone woild just goll their eyes and carry on. Now, for some reason, they are listened and taken far more seriously then they should be..
As we’ve seen from the recent outcry, it turns out that it something like 10 students who voted for the removal of the picture from their common room. 10! And a certain paper decides that that’s news…
If you explain to people what actually transpired, they probably would just roll their eyes but unfortunately, certain bile spewing ‘news’ outlets make it out to be something it’s not and the seals lap it up as ‘woke’, ‘snowflakes’ or ‘PC gone mad!’ and wish for a simpler time that never existed in the first place.
valiant said:
As we’ve seen from the recent outcry, it turns out that it something like 10 students who voted for the removal of the picture from their common room. 10! And a certain paper decides that that’s news…
If their ideas and actions have an impact then it matters.If anything the smaller the minority the worse it is that they're listened to and get their way.
Especially if they're the stupid loud racist sexist ignorant 'woke' type who think everyone else is wrong. There are some seriously twisted ideas out there right now that people aren't shy about.
pquinn said:
If their ideas and actions have an impact then it matters.
If anything the smaller the minority the worse it is that they're listened to and get their way.
Especially if they're the stupid loud racist sexist ignorant 'woke' type who think everyone else is wrong. There are some seriously twisted ideas out there right now that people aren't shy about.
So in that case it really doesn't matter then, does it?If anything the smaller the minority the worse it is that they're listened to and get their way.
Especially if they're the stupid loud racist sexist ignorant 'woke' type who think everyone else is wrong. There are some seriously twisted ideas out there right now that people aren't shy about.
As somone who has worked at a university as a senior technician or technical manager for almost 20 years, 19 in the aero department and now in the civil engineering department, i have found that over the last 10 years or so our students are so much better than they used to be. Yes, we have to reeducate them in the first year to what real life is really like, but they soon get the idea and become productive, useful adults who are getting good, practically based degrees and very good jobs when they leave us. There may be the odd one or two that take longer to get through to, but by the third year even they are able to boldly go into the world with renewed vigour and confidence. Unfortunately, the rest of the university is not like this, but I'm very proud of our engineering students, even when the wider university, campuses and senior management can make me weep with their so called progressive agendas and ideas.
Edited by Shar2 on Friday 11th June 13:39
williamp said:
Yes, twas always thus...
But before the very recent, everyone woild just goll their eyes and carry on. Now, for some reason, they are listened and taken far more seriously then they should be..
No.But before the very recent, everyone woild just goll their eyes and carry on. Now, for some reason, they are listened and taken far more seriously then they should be..
From my own time at University there were a million groups/clubs/societies, all of which had various drums to bang. The main difference between then and now is that Social media means more people hear the noise that they make, and the likes of the Daily Mail use this as clickbait so they can feed off the anger and bile these articles generate amongst their readers
Countdown said:
No.
From my own time at University there were a million groups/clubs/societies, all of which had various drums to bang. The main difference between then and now is that Social media means more people hear the noise that they make, and the likes of the Daily Mail use this as clickbait so they can feed off the anger and bile these articles generate amongst their readers
In addition to social media there are now also multiple rolling news and phone in shows on the traditional media. So there is an insatiable demand for something to talk about.From my own time at University there were a million groups/clubs/societies, all of which had various drums to bang. The main difference between then and now is that Social media means more people hear the noise that they make, and the likes of the Daily Mail use this as clickbait so they can feed off the anger and bile these articles generate amongst their readers
The story about the common room photo of the queen really is just hysteria.
ATG said:
BabySharkDooDooDooDooDooDoo said:
Despite the loudest students giving the impression that they’re all useless tts, the reality is that it’s a gobby minority who attract media attention and promotion for some reason. The majority are there to get a piece of paper and/or have fun with friends.
I have fond memories of watching the Socialist Worker branch at my university try to reach out (comrades!) to a semi-radical anti-war group from the Islamic Society. Very entertaining to watch. Clash of the gobsts, the reality is that it’s a gobby minority who attract media attention and promotion for some reason. The majority are there to get a piece of paper and/or have fun with friends. tes, not because of some fundamental incompatibility of principles or conclusions, but because gobstes.
During my short time at university, I found that the extreme political sorts like the Socialist Workers were usually laughed at rather than sided with.
Back in the 1970s and 1980s, universities were full of radical thinkers amongst the students. They, like the older generation, thought they knew best. They, unlike the older generation, hadn't made a mess of things, so perhaps they had their reasons.
Weekend after weekend there would be demonstrations, sit-ins, strikes and lockouts. For reasons which have been argued over, university undergrads became, if not a part of the establishment, they seemed cowed by it. Radical thinking was something that was frowned on. They rejected received wisdom and thought for themselves. They were the ones objecting to the likes of pointless wars, of aggression by oppressive nations. They were inspired by the student who stuck a flower down the barrel of a rifle.
They are the ones who challenged what the adults accepted as the norm, as the 'too difficult' to address, and those matters that might cost some effort.
Students should think differently to adults. They should have radical ideas. They should confront those matters they feel are wrong, unfair, and work for those they feel are ignored by their society, or, worse, persecuted.
In general, they don't get more sense as they get older, they become more selfish.
Universities are not there to dictate. Students don't go to merely listen.
Weekend after weekend there would be demonstrations, sit-ins, strikes and lockouts. For reasons which have been argued over, university undergrads became, if not a part of the establishment, they seemed cowed by it. Radical thinking was something that was frowned on. They rejected received wisdom and thought for themselves. They were the ones objecting to the likes of pointless wars, of aggression by oppressive nations. They were inspired by the student who stuck a flower down the barrel of a rifle.
They are the ones who challenged what the adults accepted as the norm, as the 'too difficult' to address, and those matters that might cost some effort.
Students should think differently to adults. They should have radical ideas. They should confront those matters they feel are wrong, unfair, and work for those they feel are ignored by their society, or, worse, persecuted.
In general, they don't get more sense as they get older, they become more selfish.
Universities are not there to dictate. Students don't go to merely listen.
Derek Smith said:
Back in the 1970s and 1980s, universities were full of radical thinkers amongst the students. They, like the older generation, thought they knew best. They, unlike the older generation, hadn't made a mess of things, so perhaps they had their reasons.
Weekend after weekend there would be demonstrations, sit-ins, strikes and lockouts. For reasons which have been argued over, university undergrads became, if not a part of the establishment, they seemed cowed by it. Radical thinking was something that was frowned on. They rejected received wisdom and thought for themselves. They were the ones objecting to the likes of pointless wars, of aggression by oppressive nations. They were inspired by the student who stuck a flower down the barrel of a rifle.
They are the ones who challenged what the adults accepted as the norm, as the 'too difficult' to address, and those matters that might cost some effort.
Students should think differently to adults. They should have radical ideas. They should confront those matters they feel are wrong, unfair, and work for those they feel are ignored by their society, or, worse, persecuted.
In general, they don't get more sense as they get older, they become more selfish.
Universities are not there to dictate. Students don't go to merely listen.
A case of "if your not a socialist at 25 you have no heart, if you are still a socialist at 40, you have no head". Attributed to everyone form Clemenceau to Burke, but sums up Uni life for some people. Weekend after weekend there would be demonstrations, sit-ins, strikes and lockouts. For reasons which have been argued over, university undergrads became, if not a part of the establishment, they seemed cowed by it. Radical thinking was something that was frowned on. They rejected received wisdom and thought for themselves. They were the ones objecting to the likes of pointless wars, of aggression by oppressive nations. They were inspired by the student who stuck a flower down the barrel of a rifle.
They are the ones who challenged what the adults accepted as the norm, as the 'too difficult' to address, and those matters that might cost some effort.
Students should think differently to adults. They should have radical ideas. They should confront those matters they feel are wrong, unfair, and work for those they feel are ignored by their society, or, worse, persecuted.
In general, they don't get more sense as they get older, they become more selfish.
Universities are not there to dictate. Students don't go to merely listen.
I used to man the climbing club stand for 3 years at Freshers - I noted the powers that be put the OTC next to the Socialist Workers (who were full fat Irish Nationalism at the time) every year. I suspect they were playing a merry game with young minds....
I expect most at uni are juggling money, work and getting laid. A small number shout angrily about stuff, but twas ever thus. Only now, we have a media that exists off creating out groups to a bunch of losers who thrive on it to feed their narrow prejudices and confirmation bias.
Castrol for a knave said:
A case of "if your not a socialist at 25 you have no heart, if you are still a socialist at 40, you have no head". Attributed to everyone form Clemenceau to Burke, but sums up Uni life for some people.
I used to man the climbing club stand for 3 years at Freshers - I noted the powers that be put the OTC next to the Socialist Workers (who were full fat Irish Nationalism at the time) every year. I suspect they were playing a merry game with young minds....
I expect most at uni are juggling money, work and getting laid. A small number shout angrily about stuff, but twas ever thus. Only now, we have a media that exists off creating out groups to a bunch of losers who thrive on it to feed their narrow prejudices and confirmation bias.
There was a sit-in at the LSE in the late 70s, a time when the police were asking for more money. I passed an occupied building, dressed in half blues, so not obviously a police officer to a blind person, on my way to Bow Street magistrates' court. One of the protestors called to me, and I walked over as I was early. We had a quick chat, and I said they should put a banner out in support of the police's fight for a living wage. I told him how much I got and the hours that I worked, and I thanked him and his friends for all the demonstrations that allowed me to top up my income through policing generally quiet demos. I used to man the climbing club stand for 3 years at Freshers - I noted the powers that be put the OTC next to the Socialist Workers (who were full fat Irish Nationalism at the time) every year. I suspect they were playing a merry game with young minds....
I expect most at uni are juggling money, work and getting laid. A small number shout angrily about stuff, but twas ever thus. Only now, we have a media that exists off creating out groups to a bunch of losers who thrive on it to feed their narrow prejudices and confirmation bias.
By the end of the chat there was a small crowd, both sides of the window, and I was being told by passers by that I shouldn't 'encourage' them. I said they were entitled to demonstrate and, given they were highly educated, perhaps they should take a lead. They were going to be leaders in the future.
I shook hands with some of the demonstrators and walked off. When I walked back, after the case, there were three 'banners', table clothes, hanging outside, saying that the LSE students supported the police in their fight against the tyranny of the bosses. I applauded them, and they me. The banners got into an evening paper. I felt quite proud.
They were a pleasant crowd in the main, and had some pertinent points.
Derek Smith said:
Castrol for a knave said:
A case of "if your not a socialist at 25 you have no heart, if you are still a socialist at 40, you have no head". Attributed to everyone form Clemenceau to Burke, but sums up Uni life for some people.
I used to man the climbing club stand for 3 years at Freshers - I noted the powers that be put the OTC next to the Socialist Workers (who were full fat Irish Nationalism at the time) every year. I suspect they were playing a merry game with young minds....
I expect most at uni are juggling money, work and getting laid. A small number shout angrily about stuff, but twas ever thus. Only now, we have a media that exists off creating out groups to a bunch of losers who thrive on it to feed their narrow prejudices and confirmation bias.
There was a sit-in at the LSE in the late 70s, a time when the police were asking for more money. I passed an occupied building, dressed in half blues, so not obviously a police officer to a blind person, on my way to Bow Street magistrates' court. One of the protestors called to me, and I walked over as I was early. We had a quick chat, and I said they should put a banner out in support of the police's fight for a living wage. I told him how much I got and the hours that I worked, and I thanked him and his friends for all the demonstrations that allowed me to top up my income through policing generally quiet demos. I used to man the climbing club stand for 3 years at Freshers - I noted the powers that be put the OTC next to the Socialist Workers (who were full fat Irish Nationalism at the time) every year. I suspect they were playing a merry game with young minds....
I expect most at uni are juggling money, work and getting laid. A small number shout angrily about stuff, but twas ever thus. Only now, we have a media that exists off creating out groups to a bunch of losers who thrive on it to feed their narrow prejudices and confirmation bias.
By the end of the chat there was a small crowd, both sides of the window, and I was being told by passers by that I shouldn't 'encourage' them. I said they were entitled to demonstrate and, given they were highly educated, perhaps they should take a lead. They were going to be leaders in the future.
I shook hands with some of the demonstrators and walked off. When I walked back, after the case, there were three 'banners', table clothes, hanging outside, saying that the LSE students supported the police in their fight against the tyranny of the bosses. I applauded them, and they me. The banners got into an evening paper. I felt quite proud.
They were a pleasant crowd in the main, and had some pertinent points.
Emeye said:
Nope, and you have just fallen into the trap of doing exactly what I was talking about - rather than a difference in opinion, the self-righteous decide to be offended, deliberately avoiding any context, usually as it helps push their own agenda. It could be any subject. Environment, race, transgender, brexit etc etc Open debate doesn't happen - it doesn't matter why you have an opinion, the offended decide why you have it.
e.g.
Someone disagrees with taking the knee, they get branded a racist.
Someone supports brexit, they get branded a racist.
Someone stands up for the palestinians, they get branded as Anti-semitic.
Someone stands up for someone elses free speech being impinged, it is automatically assumed they have the same opinion.
Practical example:
My son RE class being told they can be open and share any opinion they want to bring to the table, until the teacher disagrees and sends him out of the class for saying that all the character in the Simpsons cartoon are based on stereotypes, so we shouldn't be selective on which of the stereotypes we find offensive.
And then my friend's daughter was told she would be put on a "new hope" (WFT? Apparently this is the new caring sharing name for a detention) for accidentally calling the brand new supply teacher Miss instead of the pronoun of Mx, which she had demanded the class all call her, and then changing the subject being taught to transgender rights. Sounds like indoctrination when there is a threat associated.
Kind of proves the point.e.g.
Someone disagrees with taking the knee, they get branded a racist.
Someone supports brexit, they get branded a racist.
Someone stands up for the palestinians, they get branded as Anti-semitic.
Someone stands up for someone elses free speech being impinged, it is automatically assumed they have the same opinion.
Practical example:
My son RE class being told they can be open and share any opinion they want to bring to the table, until the teacher disagrees and sends him out of the class for saying that all the character in the Simpsons cartoon are based on stereotypes, so we shouldn't be selective on which of the stereotypes we find offensive.
And then my friend's daughter was told she would be put on a "new hope" (WFT? Apparently this is the new caring sharing name for a detention) for accidentally calling the brand new supply teacher Miss instead of the pronoun of Mx, which she had demanded the class all call her, and then changing the subject being taught to transgender rights. Sounds like indoctrination when there is a threat associated.
1) Disagreeing with taking the knee IS racist, and also wanting to restrict free speech.
2) No one has accused all brexit supporters of being racist. There has been accusations that some Brexit supporters we’re pro leaving the EU for racist reasons, but that’s not the same thing at all.
3) Um... “woke lefties” are generally supportive of Palestine. Accusing them of being anti Semitic is very much a right wing position
4) not sure what that has to do with anything
With regards to the school ones, knowing school kids and teachers, I am guessing that there is more to that than you claim.
citizensm1th said:
Claptonian said:
brake fader said:
It seems since Blair said Education x 3 we have had a watered down system producing nothing but snowkflakes and activists .
The likes of ATG and Polite M135 driver have given good answers already, but you would really benefit from expanding your horizons somewhat. The above sounds like the rantings of a disgruntled and spectacularly poorly read old bloke, bemoaning the youth of today, exactly as people exactly like you have been doing for all of time. What a cliche. 
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