First transgender athlete to compete at Olympics

First transgender athlete to compete at Olympics

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Northernboy

10,979 posts

224 months

Monday 21st June
quotequote all
8.4L 154 said:
How long do we have to wait?

Tennis was the first sport to include trans women in 1976. 45 years later we are still waiting for a trans grand slam winner, or even anyone coming close to being competitive.
You presumably know how dishonest your post is. There was previoulsy a requirement for gender reassignemnt surgery. There now isn't.

ZedLeg

2,798 posts

75 months

Monday 21st June
quotequote all
Northernboy said:
8.4L 154 said:
How long do we have to wait?

Tennis was the first sport to include trans women in 1976. 45 years later we are still waiting for a trans grand slam winner, or even anyone coming close to being competitive.
You presumably know how dishonest your post is. There was previoulsy a requirement for gender reassignemnt surgery. There now isn't.
It's surgery that's the issue? I thought it was going through puberty as a male that years of hormone therapy couldn't change.

DanL

4,103 posts

232 months

Monday 21st June
quotequote all
It’ll be interesting to see the outcome of this. If she wins gold, surely questions will be asked. Doesn’t place in a medal position? Then those questions may well be delayed until another time.

I seriously doubt that anyone will transition in order to be more competitive at a sporting event. However, I would expect that people who have transitioned will want to continue to compete, and may well have an advantage… I assume she’s in the second category.

Gecko1978

5,201 posts

124 months

Monday 21st June
quotequote all
ZedLeg said:
The idea that anyone would go through the long and arduous process of transitioning purely to get an advantage in sport would be laughable if it wasn’t so insulting to trans people.
I agree a non trans person is not going to do that but a trans athlete would be well aware of the advantages and you would think sportsmanship would stop them from competing but seems not

ZedLeg

2,798 posts

75 months

Monday 21st June
quotequote all
DanL said:
It’ll be interesting to see the outcome of this. If she wins gold, surely questions will be asked. Doesn’t place in a medal position? Then those questions may well be delayed until another time.
If Laurel Hubbard does well, I'm sure we'll hear from the usual suspects that it's completely unfair. If she doesn't do you think anyone will admit they were creating an issue based on their own prejudice?

Northernboy

10,979 posts

224 months

Monday 21st June
quotequote all
ZedLeg said:
It's surgery that's the issue? I thought it was going through puberty as a male that years of hormone therapy couldn't change.
What are you talking about? It was far harder to be alowed to compete as a man, as you had to go through surgery first. Mow you only need to self-declare and drop your testosterone level.

You mentioned an arduous process, are you going to explain what that is now?

Why do you want men in women's sport?

mick987

437 posts

77 months

Monday 21st June
quotequote all
Northernboy said:
8.4L 154 said:
How long do we have to wait?

Tennis was the first sport to include trans women in 1976. 45 years later we are still waiting for a trans grand slam winner, or even anyone coming close to being competitive.
You presumably know how dishonest your post is. There was previoulsy a requirement for gender reassignemnt surgery. There now isn't.
The tennis player he is talking about (Renée Richards ) was a below average male tennis player in his 20s after the sex change qualified for the US Open in her 40s. Richards says herself she would not have played women's tennis in her 20s as she would have won Wimbledon.

rover 623gsi

4,313 posts

128 months

Monday 21st June
quotequote all
ZedLeg said:
DanL said:
It’ll be interesting to see the outcome of this. If she wins gold, surely questions will be asked. Doesn’t place in a medal position? Then those questions may well be delayed until another time.
If Laurel Hubbard does well, I'm sure we'll hear from the usual suspects that it's completely unfair. If she doesn't do you think anyone will admit they were creating an issue based on their own prejudice?
Hubbard has already ‘done well’ - they’ve qualified for the Olympics thus taking the place of a woman weightlifter

ZedLeg

2,798 posts

75 months

Monday 21st June
quotequote all
Northernboy said:
ZedLeg said:
It's surgery that's the issue? I thought it was going through puberty as a male that years of hormone therapy couldn't change.
What are you talking about? It was far harder to be alowed to compete as a man, as you had to go through surgery first. Mow you only need to self-declare and drop your testosterone level.

You mentioned an arduous process, are you going to explain what that is now?

Why do you want men in women's sport?
I don't I just see trans women as women.

At the moment I see a man take estrogen and self declare as a woman without going through the rest of the transitioning process to get ahead in sport I'll agree there's an issue. Until then I'll continue to view these kinds of opinions as the bigotry they are.

768

9,091 posts

63 months

Monday 21st June
quotequote all
DanL said:
It’ll be interesting to see the outcome of this. If she wins gold, surely questions will be asked. Doesn’t place in a medal position? Then those questions may well be delayed until another time.
Not disagreeing at all, but it's just so wrong that the focus is on the medals. A woman's already been denied the chance to compete.

ZedLeg

2,798 posts

75 months

Monday 21st June
quotequote all
rover 623gsi said:
ZedLeg said:
DanL said:
It’ll be interesting to see the outcome of this. If she wins gold, surely questions will be asked. Doesn’t place in a medal position? Then those questions may well be delayed until another time.
If Laurel Hubbard does well, I'm sure we'll hear from the usual suspects that it's completely unfair. If she doesn't do you think anyone will admit they were creating an issue based on their own prejudice?
Hubbard has already ‘done well’ - they’ve qualified for the Olympics thus taking the place of a woman weightlifter
I've had a look but I couldn't find any info about the trials, were there any other women in NZ competing in her weight class?

Northernboy

10,979 posts

224 months

Monday 21st June
quotequote all
mick987 said:
The tennis player he is talking about (Renée Richards ) was a below average male tennis player in his 20s after the sex change qualified for the US Open in her 40s. Richards says herself she would not have played women's tennis in her 20s as she would have won Wimbledon.
This site does a good job of showing the vast difference between male and female athletes; it shows the age at which boys outperform world-class women in different sports.

https://boysvswomen.com/#/

I don;t really understand the agenda of people who want this to happen, for men to displace female athletes in their own sport, but it's not something that I am going to be able to get on board with.

A trans woman is a man who's living as a woman to deal with a psychological condition, body dysmorphia. It may be polite to play along in some circumstances to not make then feel worse about it, but that can't go as far as harming actual women's rights like this.

Is it any different in nature to Rachel Dolezal identifying as "trans racial" and taking positions set aside for non-whites?

rover 623gsi

4,313 posts

128 months

Monday 21st June
quotequote all
ZedLeg said:
Northernboy said:
ZedLeg said:
It's surgery that's the issue? I thought it was going through puberty as a male that years of hormone therapy couldn't change.
What are you talking about? It was far harder to be alowed to compete as a man, as you had to go through surgery first. Mow you only need to self-declare and drop your testosterone level.

You mentioned an arduous process, are you going to explain what that is now?

Why do you want men in women's sport?
I don't I just see trans women as women.

At the moment I see a man take estrogen and self declare as a woman without going through the rest of the transitioning process to get ahead in sport I'll agree there's an issue. Until then I'll continue to view these kinds of opinions as the bigotry they are.
Biology is not bigotry

768

9,091 posts

63 months

Monday 21st June
quotequote all
Northernboy said:
But they aren’t women.
ZedLeg said:
...I just see trans women as women....
This seems to me the conflict.

I'm not sure how anyone can deny a difference when sporting records are being smashed.

ZedLeg

2,798 posts

75 months

Monday 21st June
quotequote all
Ooft, that's two on my terf bingo card in two comments. Well played lads.

Northernboy

10,979 posts

224 months

Monday 21st June
quotequote all
ZedLeg said:
Ooft, that's two on my terf bingo card in two comments. Well played lads.
What then is your definition of a woman? Do you actually have a non-circular one? Obvioulsy saying "a woman is anyone who says that they are one" is circular.

We have a very good scientific definition of what a woman is, and it accords extremely well with what we've always understood a woman to be. You seem to want to go with a different definition, so what is it?

Northernboy

10,979 posts

224 months

Monday 21st June
quotequote all
ZedLeg said:
I don't I just see trans women as women.

At the moment I see a man take estrogen and self declare as a woman without going through the rest of the transitioning process to get ahead in sport I'll agree there's an issue. Until then I'll continue to view these kinds of opinions as the bigotry they are.
You are pretty quick with the insults when you don't have any facts to back up your misogyny. What is it about women that you dislike so much that you want to allow men to take their rights away?

rover 623gsi

4,313 posts

128 months

Monday 21st June
quotequote all
ZedLeg said:
rover 623gsi said:
ZedLeg said:
DanL said:
It’ll be interesting to see the outcome of this. If she wins gold, surely questions will be asked. Doesn’t place in a medal position? Then those questions may well be delayed until another time.
If Laurel Hubbard does well, I'm sure we'll hear from the usual suspects that it's completely unfair. If she doesn't do you think anyone will admit they were creating an issue based on their own prejudice?
Hubbard has already ‘done well’ - they’ve qualified for the Olympics thus taking the place of a woman weightlifter
I've had a look but I couldn't find any info about the trials, were there any other women in NZ competing in her weight class?
Qualify criteria is not the same for all sports - in weightlifting there are so many spots available at the Olympics. the competitors take part in various competitions during the year which earn them points and the best ones are then offered the opportunity to have a place at the Olympics. In this case, the woman who has missed out on selection is not another Kiwi but a woman from Tonga.

austinsmirk

4,306 posts

90 months

Monday 21st June
quotequote all
mick987 said:
It is just a matter of time before a male tennis player who is ranked around 200 in the world struggling to earn £50000 a year decides he is female winning every tournament he/she enters destroying women's tennis and making an absolute fortune in the process.
At least he/she /they/it/ them or whatever will come with their own bat and two balls unlike the ladies.

But yr right. Funnily though wasn’t there a male tennis player in the 70’s who bet he was better than martina Navratilova

Game was set up and she destroyed him.

ZedLeg

2,798 posts

75 months

Monday 21st June
quotequote all
Northernboy said:
ZedLeg said:
I don't I just see trans women as women.

At the moment I see a man take estrogen and self declare as a woman without going through the rest of the transitioning process to get ahead in sport I'll agree there's an issue. Until then I'll continue to view these kinds of opinions as the bigotry they are.
You are pretty quick with the insults when you don't have any facts to back up your misogyny. What is it about women that you dislike so much that you want to allow men to take their rights away?
Where have I stated that I hate women and how is trans equality taking rights away from women?
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