CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 13)

[Jimmy No Hands]

NewBod said:

As I have said all along, lockdowns will be used for much more than covid.

The NHS has really turned into something sinister. We won't be able to do anything soon because we might need to use it. I can't believe this is happening now. There is no way back.

I saw the dark side of the NHS last year when my GP couldn't be bothered seeing me. It's gone full on now. They don't want anyone using it anymore.

I've seen this 'lockdowns could be a tool used in future' statement a lot now. What I haven't seen is anybody (be it an individual or the main stream media or the "experts" who threaten it) explain how on earth they think that it is sustainable? Lock down has crippled the hospitality, travel and entertainment industries, it's crippled the self employed and the small business owner. It's had a catastrophic affect on peoples mental wellbeing to a frightening degree. We have a colossal NHS backlog that has no doubt cost lives and will continue to do so. It's been severely damaging to young peoples educations and as a biproduct of that, potentially their futures. It's cost us billions of pounds. How is it sustainable, how can it be sustainable?

Have the people suggesting that a "lockdown" is just a tool in the governments arsenal been completely oblivious to the last 14 months? What would a "seasonal" lockdown even look like in reality? Would people stand for it? Would people adhere? It's a load of scare mongering nonsense. The NHS is overrun every Winter supposedly, and yet we're still here.

[Nickgnome]

NewBod said:

V88Dicky said:

NewBod said:

This was posted by someone in the last volume - https://m.jpost.com/health-science/covid-19-might-...

Sorry, I can't quote it.

I was going to say that hasn't Israel been the ultimate vaccination poster boy? They have vaccinated a shed load of their population.

I recall seeing something about the vaccines awakening older viruses that the body has already dealt with. Could this be linked to that? Or is this fallout from the vaccine ingredients in the body meeting other viruses? I'm sure that some of the old mrna testing on animals resulted in their bodies overreacting to viruses.

Or did Israel do lockdown, resulting in people missing out on topping up their immune systems?

And no, not a conspiracy theory, a genuine query.

This is the problem NewBod, nobody actually knows. At best it seems all, er, best guesses and assumptions, even from the most astute virologists and immunologists.

This is why I’m glad to question everything, and more than prepared to wait it out.

I'm doing the same. You don't have to be a swivel eyed loon to want to wait for more info on these vaccines before committing.

So any further delays in full release will be down to people like you, and some said it was the vaccinated that were fearful or cowardly.

Meanwhile the vaccine has allowed relatively undisrupted travel to certain locations with no quarantine requirement for some of us.



'Plan for double-jabbed to avoid travel quarantine
Health Secretary Matt Hancock has confirmed the government is working on a plan where fully vaccinated people could go to countries on the so-called amber travel list and not need to quarantine on their return to England. Mr Hancock said ministers were looking at ways to allow the return of some freedoms for those who had received two jabs, but the plan had not been "clinically advised yet". At the moment, anyone returning from a country on the amber list must self-isolate for 10 days.'

It really is in your hands.

[amgmcqueen]

robuk said:

The batst continues!

In the UK at least. The rest of the world seems to be lifting all restrictions apart from us!

[V1nce Fox]

Nickgnome said:

So any further delays in full release will be down to people like you, and some said it was the vaccinated that were fearful or cowardly.

Meanwhile the vaccine has allowed relatively undisrupted travel to certain locations with no quarantine requirement for some of us.



'Plan for double-jabbed to avoid travel quarantine
Health Secretary Matt Hancock has confirmed the government is working on a plan where fully vaccinated people could go to countries on the so-called amber travel list and not need to quarantine on their return to England. Mr Hancock said ministers were looking at ways to allow the return of some freedoms for those who had received two jabs, but the plan had not been "clinically advised yet". At the moment, anyone returning from a country on the amber list must self-isolate for 10 days.'

It really is in your hands.

No thanks.

[jameswills]

Couldn’t think of anything worse than travelling whilst all this nonsense is going on, so fill your boots with your Jab2 Airline flights.

[Boringvolvodriver]

It never ceases to amaze me how some people have so much faith in our government- especially when they have been so good at sticking to what they said they would do and not making U turns.

Will the plan to stop isolating for double jabbed people from Amber countries come to pass? Or will it be the same as Christmas or Easter or freedom day on 21 June?

What is it next, the epsilon variant I think that is waiting in the wings!

ETA - right now can anybody clarify what extra freedoms a double vaccinated person in the UK has compared to an unvaccinated one?

Edited by Boringvolvodriver on Tuesday 22 June 18:22

[steveT350C]

NewBod said:

V88Dicky said:

NewBod said:

This was posted by someone in the last volume - https://m.jpost.com/health-science/covid-19-might-...

Sorry, I can't quote it.

I was going to say that hasn't Israel been the ultimate vaccination poster boy? They have vaccinated a shed load of their population.

I recall seeing something about the vaccines awakening older viruses that the body has already dealt with. Could this be linked to that? Or is this fallout from the vaccine ingredients in the body meeting other viruses? I'm sure that some of the old mrna testing on animals resulted in their bodies overreacting to viruses.

Or did Israel do lockdown, resulting in people missing out on topping up their immune systems?

And no, not a conspiracy theory, a genuine query.

This is the problem NewBod, nobody actually knows. At best it seems all, er, best guesses and assumptions, even from the most astute virologists and immunologists.

This is why I’m glad to question everything, and more than prepared to wait it out.

I'm doing the same. You don't have to be a swivel eyed loon to want to wait for more info on these vaccines before committing.

I posted the JP link. I’m really trying to not go full tin foil hat, but it’s getting difficult. I’ve been involved in medical devices for 25 years, and start-ups for 10 years. My family have been involved in medical devices for 120 years.

I knew that something was wrong May last year.

I know something is seriously wrong now.

I hope it’s ‘just’ big pharma using this virus as an excuse to roll out new tech that will benefit the most at risk, and make loads of money, and also it’s just big tech, Tony Blair etc, using it to roll out ID cards and vaccine passports to make more money.

I disagree with both the above wholeheartedly, but it is happening!

The tin foil hat of mass depopulation, either quickly, or more slowly via sterilisation (lipid nanoparticles building up in the overies) etc is a step too far even for my cynical mind.

[Evolved]

Nickgnome said:

NewBod said:

V88Dicky said:

NewBod said:

This was posted by someone in the last volume - https://m.jpost.com/health-science/covid-19-might-...

Sorry, I can't quote it.

I was going to say that hasn't Israel been the ultimate vaccination poster boy? They have vaccinated a shed load of their population.

I recall seeing something about the vaccines awakening older viruses that the body has already dealt with. Could this be linked to that? Or is this fallout from the vaccine ingredients in the body meeting other viruses? I'm sure that some of the old mrna testing on animals resulted in their bodies overreacting to viruses.

Or did Israel do lockdown, resulting in people missing out on topping up their immune systems?

And no, not a conspiracy theory, a genuine query.

This is the problem NewBod, nobody actually knows. At best it seems all, er, best guesses and assumptions, even from the most astute virologists and immunologists.

This is why I’m glad to question everything, and more than prepared to wait it out.

I'm doing the same. You don't have to be a swivel eyed loon to want to wait for more info on these vaccines before committing.

So any further delays in full release will be down to people like you, and some said it was the vaccinated that were fearful or cowardly.

Meanwhile the vaccine has allowed relatively undisrupted travel to certain locations with no quarantine requirement for some of us.



'Plan for double-jabbed to avoid travel quarantine
Health Secretary Matt Hancock has confirmed the government is working on a plan where fully vaccinated people could go to countries on the so-called amber travel list and not need to quarantine on their return to England. Mr Hancock said ministers were looking at ways to allow the return of some freedoms for those who had received two jabs, but the plan had not been "clinically advised yet". At the moment, anyone returning from a country on the amber list must self-isolate for 10 days.'

It really is in your hands.

And you continue to post the same drivel.

Coercion in its truest form.

[Nickgnome]

V1nce Fox said:

No thanks.

It is of course your choice but in the unfortunate situation that this debacle continues do not be surprised if fingers of blame start to be pointed your way.

I suppose there will always be those that expect others to take the (minimal) risk that they themselves are not prepared to.

There is a huge difference between those who cannot be cannot be vaccinated and those who choose not to be.

[GSE]

[quote = alangla]https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-57570939 - seems the plan is for masks on public transport, shops & schools beyond the headline lifting of "all" restrictions, which has itself been put back to August 9th.
So first we've got the dystopian "near normal" tier zero, which is anything but & has been delayed for all except the Northern & Western isles- https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covi...
Then the "lifting of all restrictions" on August 9th which includes the retention of masks & potentially other things.

When do we actually get "normal" ? Never?
When Tier zero was first unveiled last year & described as "near normal" I said at the time it was anything but. There appears to be no plan for actually getting things back to real normal in Scotland, e.g. I've no idea when I'll next be able to pack into a pub & listen to a crap karaoke singer on a Saturday night. When things like that come back & I've no need to put on a mask to use the toilet or be asked for my name & phone number then it'll be normal.
[/quote]

I thoroughly agree, and am shocked by the amount of people who see it as "no biggie" and "just pop a mask on for a few moments".
Utterly bizzare, are half the nation really sheep?

[steveT350C]

Nickgnome said:

Meanwhile the vaccine has allowed relatively undisrupted travel to certain locations with no quarantine requirement for some of us.

Wow! That is one clever vaccine!

I thought it is the politicians who gave us those ‘new’ freedoms.

You sick little puppy.

[jameswills]

Boringvolvodriver said:

It never ceases to amaze me how some people have so much faith in our government- especially when they have been so good at sticking to what they said they would do and not making U turns.

Will the plan to stop isolating for double jabbed people from Amber countries come to pass? Or will it be the same as Christmas or Easter or freedom day on 21 June?

What is it next, the epsilon variant I think that is waiting in the wings!

Spot on. It’s difficult to say this without being derogatory, so I will phrase it inclusively. I can’t wait to see what hoops they make us British flock of sheep jump through next in return for a taste of some perverse form of “freedom”.

Being serious, it will be totally unworkable anyway, Europe is already moving about and is far less vaccinated and don’t require proof. So all they will cease to do is make the UK even less of a prospect to visit, especially as they are also seemingly trying to make jabs and testing a common theme at most events too. They are hammering the nails into the economic coffin.

[NewBod]

Nickgnome said:

NewBod said:

V88Dicky said:

NewBod said:

This was posted by someone in the last volume - https://m.jpost.com/health-science/covid-19-might-...

Sorry, I can't quote it.

I was going to say that hasn't Israel been the ultimate vaccination poster boy? They have vaccinated a shed load of their population.

I recall seeing something about the vaccines awakening older viruses that the body has already dealt with. Could this be linked to that? Or is this fallout from the vaccine ingredients in the body meeting other viruses? I'm sure that some of the old mrna testing on animals resulted in their bodies overreacting to viruses.

Or did Israel do lockdown, resulting in people missing out on topping up their immune systems?

And no, not a conspiracy theory, a genuine query.

This is the problem NewBod, nobody actually knows. At best it seems all, er, best guesses and assumptions, even from the most astute virologists and immunologists.

This is why I’m glad to question everything, and more than prepared to wait it out.

I'm doing the same. You don't have to be a swivel eyed loon to want to wait for more info on these vaccines before committing.

So any further delays in full release will be down to people like you, and some said it was the vaccinated that were fearful or cowardly.

Meanwhile the vaccine has allowed relatively undisrupted travel to certain locations with no quarantine requirement for some of us.



'Plan for double-jabbed to avoid travel quarantine
Health Secretary Matt Hancock has confirmed the government is working on a plan where fully vaccinated people could go to countries on the so-called amber travel list and not need to quarantine on their return to England. Mr Hancock said ministers were looking at ways to allow the return of some freedoms for those who had received two jabs, but the plan had not been "clinically advised yet". At the moment, anyone returning from a country on the amber list must self-isolate for 10 days.'

It really is in your hands.

Nick, the at risk people are vaccinated. To be honest, a lot more than the at risk are vaccinated too.

People seem to have lost sight of the fact that this virus has a very high survival rate.

If the at risk are vaccinated, then what is the problem?

Even with the massive push we have had to vaccinate people, restrictions are still in place. That is nothing to do with the unvaccinated. It just goes to show that it's never enough for our government to remove restrictions.

The government pinned their hopes on this vaccine. The at risk are vaccinated. What is the real cause of the delay?

Or are you saying Nick that the vaccines don't actually work?

As for the cowardly comment, I doubt it. I have suffered from very, very bad anxiety issues since the NHS nearly killed me last year. Because of this, I cannot wear a mask without becoming severely distressed. I haven't worn a mask through any of this and I've been glared at, abused, shouted at, berated etc. However, I have remained strong and refused to wrap my face in a useless piece of cloth or paper. I have consistently been the only person in shops, at school etc. not wearing a mask. If I had been a coward I would have stayed at home and not ventured out anywhere.

As for quarantine free travel, so what. I don't wish to travel anywhere unless these crazy restrictions are removed. To be honest, I have never enjoyed air travels anyway because you are treated worse than animals. This is something that has come about since 9/11, when the world turned dark and those in power changed from being guides to controlling and coercing us.

Nick, you enjoy everything that is going on. You feel like you have done your bit for society. That's fine. I have never blamed you for any of this mess, and you can't blame me. If anything, those that have been good citizens and offered up their arms without question or tested themselves twice a week, they have given the government the confidence to keep the draconian measures going. In a roundabout way Nick, people like you are responsible for this for blindly doing their bidding.

[GSE]

Nickgnome said:

Meanwhile the vaccine has allowed relatively undisrupted travel to certain locations with no quarantine requirement for some of us.

Big fking deal!

[V1nce Fox]

Nickgnome said:

It is of course your choice but in the unfortunate situation that this debacle continues do not be surprised if fingers of blame start to be pointed your way.

I suppose there will always be those that expect others to take the (minimal) risk that they themselves are not prepared to.

There is a huge difference between those who cannot be cannot be vaccinated and those who choose not to be.

I choose not to be. It’s a judgement call.

To use an oversimplified analogy, if a car salesman behaved the way this government have you’d walk away. And a badly bought car can be returned/sold on. Not so with a vaccination once delivered.

So feel free to point away but do so in the sure and certain knowledge it won’t convince me this is right.

[Nickgnome]

Evolved said:

And you continue to post the same drivel.

Coercion in its truest form.

The travel thing is fact so how can it be drivel?

[Boringvolvodriver]

Great response New Bod - you may find out that you are wasting your time though.

[jameswills]

Nickgnome said:

It is of course your choice but in the unfortunate situation that this debacle continues do not be surprised if fingers of blame start to be pointed your way.

I suppose there will always be those that expect others to take the (minimal) risk that they themselves are not prepared to.

There is a huge difference between those who cannot be cannot be vaccinated and those who choose not to be.

Ahhh the shame tactic now! You first went with the “look what you’re missing out line”, then it’s the “you’re a bad person line”. You were right the first time, the only reason people not at risk people are taking the vaccine and that’s because they think it will help them travel and/or do more things, there is generally no wider “greater good” thought at play from them.

You don’t see people here pushing people NOT to take the vaccine, so to me that only means that those that have taken it are very much unsure whether it is a benefit or worse might be bad for their health down the line, therefore trying to shame or cajole others to make the same choice makes them feel better. That’s the truth of it. Else you’d be pleading with people to take it because you fear for their own health and can show evidence to back that up. Yet we strangely never see that tactic.

[Ian974]

Jimmy No Hands said:

I've seen this 'lockdowns could be a tool used in future' statement a lot now. What I haven't seen is anybody (be it an individual or the main stream media or the "experts" who threaten it) explain how on earth they think that it is sustainable? Lock down has crippled the hospitality, travel and entertainment industries, it's crippled the self employed and the small business owner. It's had a catastrophic affect on peoples mental wellbeing to a frightening degree. We have a colossal NHS backlog that has no doubt cost lives and will continue to do so. It's been severely damaging to young peoples educations and as a biproduct of that, potentially their futures. It's cost us billions of pounds. How is it sustainable, how can it be sustainable?

Have the people suggesting that a "lockdown" is just a tool in the governments arsenal been completely oblivious to the last 14 months? What would a "seasonal" lockdown even look like in reality? Would people stand for it? Would people adhere? It's a load of scare mongering nonsense. The NHS is overrun every Winter supposedly, and yet we're still here.

Well we have literally shut down the entire economy in order to protect the hospitals over the last year.
By some of the bellyaching now that's not been nearly enough and allowing things to open will make the NHS fall into the same black hole that the taxes funding it appear to get sucked into.
I no longer believe the NHS and the concept of sustainability exist in the same plane of reality.

[Twinfan]

The gnome needs to watch that video towards the end of the last volume with the US Dr and counter his reasons for him not getting the vaccine.

I'd like to see someone counter his argument as I'm in the same position and fully agree with his logic.