Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe has UK passport returned, MP says.

Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe has UK passport returned, MP says.

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Randy Winkman

11,410 posts

166 months

Wednesday 23rd March
quotequote all
Liokault said:
Randy Winkman said:
Liokault said:
Randy Winkman said:
Mark Benson said:
bhstewie said:
TurboTerrific9 said:
I'm surprised at the level of hate there is for this woman just for the fact that she isn't gushing over the process that freed her.

Jeremy Hunt's comments are, I think, important for context.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60832188
You're surprised at the level of hate for a woman who sat in a Press Conference next to a Labour MP (who happens to be her constituency MP) and didn't gush with praise about the Conservative Government who have been in power the entire duration of the six years and five Foreign Secretaries she's spent in detention?

It's absolute catnip for the "be grateful" types.

Good opinion piece here (and despite liking the Guardian for news I don't say that too often about their opinion pieces).

Nazanin is grateful, but is she grateful enough? I don’t know but the trolls will tell us
Marina Hyde? laugh

I saw who'd written it and knew immediately; it will be about how awful the British people are, and will not say a word about Iran.

And I was entirely correct.

I'm not surprised you like the piece though, it completely chimes with your wierd compulsion of telling us how awful we all are.
It doesn't say how awful British people are. It's just about some British people. I honestly think it could have been inspired by looking at this thread on PH.

I think it's a good article. It just draws attention to the fact that some people's weird compulsion when a women gets let out of jail after years apart from her small child is to take offence rather than just be happy for her.
It doesn’t say some British people, it says British people….to quote:

« To Britain, where a woman who hasn’t said a word for six years is apparently talking too much. »
I don't think it's to be taken literally. Do you really think that the writer is saying that everyone in Britain thinks like that? Clearly she doesn't.
She pedals self loathing, it’s not meant to be taken literally, she had clearly, in her mind and that of her readers, split the nation into the worthy who think like her, and the unworthy who think other than her.

It’s the modern way.
I'm not sure it's the modern way, I'd say it's always been like that. And NP&E wouldn't exist without it.

Murph7355

32,827 posts

233 months

Wednesday 23rd March
quotequote all
julian64 said:
Murph7355 said:
On the debt, as I've noted before, we should have returned the funds the second we knew we weren't going ahead with the arms deal once the Shah was overthrown (or delivered spiked tanks smile). I kind of understand why we didn't/wouldn't have wanted to. But it's not what I would have done. Pay it and wash your hands of the new regime. Then apply sanctions from a clean start point.
I can at least see where you are coming from, but if you were 100% sure that the new government would use the money to enslave its citizens or wage war/develop nuclear weapons under an unstable autocrat.

Would you still feel okay and hand the money straight back? If so I respect your point of view, but I wouldn't share it.
Fundamentally, it wasn't our money....us holding it here didn't really do their citizens any good. But it did give leverage to the regime (both "clearly so").

That cash wouldn't have seen them any closer to going nuclear than they are now. And we give money to unstable (or at the very least, unsavoury) autocrats even now (cough Saudi cough).

Give them back their own cash, then offset it by hitting them with harder sanctions smile

We've been meddling in that region for too long. Sadly I don't see this being the end of that.

rjfp1962

Original Poster:

5,316 posts

50 months

Friday 13th May
quotequote all
Nazanin got to have her say with Johnson today - I'd guess she was polite in not holding back.....!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61441631

TTmonkey

18,113 posts

224 months

Friday 13th May
quotequote all
Miserable so and so. No one would know her name if it wasn’t for Boris. She’d be long forgotten.

Ungrateful.


hehe

hidetheelephants

19,218 posts

170 months

Saturday 14th May
quotequote all
Liokault said:
She pedals self loathing, it’s not meant to be taken literally, she had clearly, in her mind and that of her readers, split the nation into the worthy who think like her, and the unworthy who think other than her.

It’s the modern way.
rofl she's a newspaper columnist; it's her job to annoy people and you're clearly demonstrating that she's on top of her trade.

Murph7355

32,827 posts

233 months

Saturday 14th May
quotequote all
hidetheelephants said:
rofl she's a newspaper columnist; it's her job to annoy people and you're clearly demonstrating that she's on top of her trade.
Unfortunately that seems to be what newspapers want of their columnists these days. It and they are a pox on society.

Newspaper columnists should be reporting the news and writing considered pieces. Not trying to be antagonistic.

If the vast majority of them disappeared overnight, the world would be a significantly better place.

oddman

1,267 posts

229 months

Saturday 14th May
quotequote all
Murph7355 said:
Unfortunately that seems to be what newspapers want of their columnists these days. It and they are a pox on society.

Newspaper columnists should be reporting the news and writing considered pieces. Not trying to be antagonistic.

If the vast majority of them disappeared overnight, the world would be a significantly better place.
She generally covers politicians a bit of sport and showbiz. She's got a killer turn of phrase and the current crop of idiots in politics and showbiz give a rich seam of material.

She is on fire at the moment. Very funny, unsparing and perceptive. She's writing for a left leaning newspaper but I think her main targets are the pompous and hypocritical wherever they dwell on the political spectrum.

bitchstewie

40,354 posts

187 months

Saturday 14th May
quotequote all
Seems for many on this thread her only "crime" was being a bit left leaning and not being grateful enough to the Government.

Do a few years in Iran with that chump of a Foreign Secretary landing you in it even more and I wonder how grateful you'd really be to them for eventually securing your release.

TriumphStag3.0V8

2,188 posts

58 months

Saturday 14th May
quotequote all
Liokault said:
Randy Winkman said:
Liokault said:
Randy Winkman said:
Mark Benson said:
bhstewie said:
TurboTerrific9 said:
I'm surprised at the level of hate there is for this woman just for the fact that she isn't gushing over the process that freed her.

Jeremy Hunt's comments are, I think, important for context.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60832188
You're surprised at the level of hate for a woman who sat in a Press Conference next to a Labour MP (who happens to be her constituency MP) and didn't gush with praise about the Conservative Government who have been in power the entire duration of the six years and five Foreign Secretaries she's spent in detention?

It's absolute catnip for the "be grateful" types.

Good opinion piece here (and despite liking the Guardian for news I don't say that too often about their opinion pieces).

Nazanin is grateful, but is she grateful enough? I don’t know but the trolls will tell us
Marina Hyde? laugh

I saw who'd written it and knew immediately; it will be about how awful the British people are, and will not say a word about Iran.

And I was entirely correct.

I'm not surprised you like the piece though, it completely chimes with your wierd compulsion of telling us how awful we all are.
It doesn't say how awful British people are. It's just about some British people. I honestly think it could have been inspired by looking at this thread on PH.

I think it's a good article. It just draws attention to the fact that some people's weird compulsion when a women gets let out of jail after years apart from her small child is to take offence rather than just be happy for her.
It doesn’t say some British people, it says British people….to quote:

« To Britain, where a woman who hasn’t said a word for six years is apparently talking too much. »
I don't think it's to be taken literally. Do you really think that the writer is saying that everyone in Britain thinks like that? Clearly she doesn't.
She pedals self loathing, it’s not meant to be taken literally, she had clearly, in her mind and that of her readers, split the nation into the worthy who think like her, and the unworthy who think other than her.

It’s the modern way.
Yep, and we have our own collection of that type of idiot on here as well.

Murph7355

32,827 posts

233 months

Saturday 14th May
quotequote all
bhstewie said:
Seems for many on this thread her only "crime" was being a bit left leaning and not being grateful enough to the Government.

Do a few years in Iran with that chump of a Foreign Secretary landing you in it even more and I wonder how grateful you'd really be to them for eventually securing your release.
It's not about "not being grateful enough", it's about being utterly ungrateful.

She put herself in the predicament. When in Iran, on her dual nationality, she was an Iranian citizen. She knew what the country was like.

There is no logical basis to suggest, let alone confirm, Johnson's words made any difference whatsoever, as we have discussed on the threads on her before. The only govt action that made any difference at all was coughing up the 400m.

My sympathy registers at about the same level as the plum who got arrested by the Russians for poking around near their space port recently, or those who get arrested for drug smuggling in places like Thailand and then don't like the stholes they get locked up in.

In the overall ranks of "what govt should spend its money on", this sort of thing (individuals putting themselves in unnecessary jeopardy) is pretty close to the bottom for me.

bitchstewie

40,354 posts

187 months

Saturday 14th May
quotequote all
He apologised to MPs for his mistake over what he said about what she was doing there.

Shame he couldn't bring himself to do so to her face.

Not doing the loop again over whether a Foreign Secretary publicly stating she was in Iran doing something that he later acknowledged he was mistaken in saying is somehow supposed to have benefitted her situation as it's totally bloody obvious it didn't.

rjfp1962

Original Poster:

5,316 posts

50 months

Saturday 14th May
quotequote all
bhstewie said:
He apologised to MPs for his mistake over what he said about what she was doing there.

Shame he couldn't bring himself to do so to her face.

Not doing the loop again over whether a Foreign Secretary publicly stating she was in Iran doing something that he later acknowledged he was mistaken in saying is somehow supposed to have benefitted her situation as it's totally bloody obvious it didn't.
An apology to Nazanin from Johnson would be pretty worthless, just symbolic..

The words that come out of his mouth rarely help anyone's cause, not even his own, and certainly didn't help Nazanin....

irc

3,343 posts

113 months

Saturday 14th May
quotequote all
Murph7355 said:
It's not about "not being grateful enough", it's about being utterly ungrateful.

She put herself in the predicament. When in Iran, on her dual nationality, she was an Iranian citizen. She knew what the country was like.
Agreed. She has chosen to retain Iranian nationality rather than revoke it but when the st hits the fan wants her adopted country to bail her out.
.

"As a dual national you cannot get diplomatic help from the British government when you are in the other country where you hold citizenship."



https://www.gov.uk/dual-citizenship

pequod

4,506 posts

115 months

Saturday 14th May
quotequote all
irc said:
Murph7355 said:
It's not about "not being grateful enough", it's about being utterly ungrateful.

She put herself in the predicament. When in Iran, on her dual nationality, she was an Iranian citizen. She knew what the country was like.
Agreed. She has chosen to retain Iranian nationality rather than revoke it but when the st hits the fan wants her adopted country to bail her out.
.

"As a dual national you cannot get diplomatic help from the British government when you are in the other country where you hold citizenship."



https://www.gov.uk/dual-citizenship
Nail. Head.

Yet, when released by the UK tax payers coughing up £400 million to pay off the Iranian regime, she is ungrateful and apparently unrepentant that, she alone, placed HMG in an impossible position.

I suspect the FS at the time (BJ) spoke the truth when he should have kept schtum, but the truth will eventually be revealed, either by the CS or the MSM, so he was in between a rock and a hard place, and lies will be less easily forgotten.

Is/was she naive? I don't believe so.

andyA700

1,075 posts

14 months

Saturday 14th May
quotequote all
oddman said:
Murph7355 said:
Unfortunately that seems to be what newspapers want of their columnists these days. It and they are a pox on society.

Newspaper columnists should be reporting the news and writing considered pieces. Not trying to be antagonistic.

If the vast majority of them disappeared overnight, the world would be a significantly better place.
She generally covers politicians a bit of sport and showbiz. She's got a killer turn of phrase and the current crop of idiots in politics and showbiz give a rich seam of material.

She is on fire at the moment. Very funny, unsparing and perceptive. She's writing for a left leaning newspaper but I think her main targets are the pompous and hypocritical wherever they dwell on the political spectrum.
Yeah, I pretty much agree with all of that. My political views agree with a little bit of right and left, and largely stuff in the middle.

andyA700

1,075 posts

14 months

Saturday 14th May
quotequote all
bhstewie said:
Seems for many on this thread her only "crime" was being a bit left leaning and not being grateful enough to the Government.

Do a few years in Iran with that chump of a Foreign Secretary landing you in it even more and I wonder how grateful you'd really be to them for eventually securing your release.
Totally agree, the political infighting between various departments (civil service and military), which went on since 2017, was why the debt wasn't paid and that was why NR was held for so long.
It also makes sense, when you know the reasons and actions behind the Iranian revolution in 1979, and the part which the UK/US played in it. The US/UK had a "plan", but the "law of unintended consequences" once again went totally wrong.
How many times has that happened.

Murph7355

32,827 posts

233 months

Saturday 14th May
quotequote all
andyA700 said:
Totally agree, the political infighting between various departments (civil service and military), which went on since 2017, was why the debt wasn't paid and that was why NR was held for so long......
Oh do behave.

What about 1979 to 2017?

The debt, and the way the Iranian govt operated were known for decades. NR will have been more than fully aware of these things (more than), and yet chose to travel there as an Iranian citizen. But hey, it's all govt's fault from 2017....

andyA700

1,075 posts

14 months

Murph7355 said:
andyA700 said:
Totally agree, the political infighting between various departments (civil service and military), which went on since 2017, was why the debt wasn't paid and that was why NR was held for so long......
Oh do behave.

What about 1979 to 2017?

The debt, and the way the Iranian govt operated were known for decades. NR will have been more than fully aware of these things (more than), and yet chose to travel there as an Iranian citizen. But hey, it's all govt's fault from 2017....
You simply do not have a clue about the thousands (tens of thousands) of Iranian born, dual passport holders from many European countries, who travel to Iran and back every year without a problem. You also do not have a clue about how the Iranian revolution started, who was behind it in 1978/79, who facilitated the installation of a regime run by "friendly ayatollahs".
Iran is a lovely place to visit, the people are great, the food wonderful, the historical sites awesome.
For anyone wishing to visit the country, a word to the wise. Make sure you don't have any baggage which will come back to haunt you. Make sure that you don't attend any demonstrations against the Iranian government in the UK, or worse still, give an interview to UK press saying less than pleasant things about the Iranian government.

biggbn

13,194 posts

197 months

How predictable, another PH thread that essentially says 'it was her own fault, she was asking for it'.

irc

3,343 posts

113 months

biggbn said:
How predictable, another PH thread that essentially says 'it was her own fault, she was asking for it'.
No. I am asking why as an Iranian citizen in Iran she expected the UK govt to help her? The rules are clear. A dual nationality citizen is not a UK citizen when in the other country she holds nationality for.

There is presumably a good reason the UK has this rule.

The Iranian govt are the villains here. It was nothing to do with the UK govt and I don't think they should pay ransoms for foreign citizens which she was while in Iran.