US Supreme court have overturned Roe V Wade
Discussion
Rufus Stone said:
Silverbullet767 said:
Good point, we and all men should stfu on this. No man should decide anything to do with womens freedoms.
America's still f
ked though.
Are men not entitled to an opinion on protecting the life of the unborn child?America's still f
ked though.Electro1980 said:
The big issue really isn’t states deciding the laws on abortion, but the utterly disproportionate way they will implement them:
Making it illegal for women to travel to other states
Criminalise anyone who helps them travel
Ban companies from providing health insurance that covers abortion, either to employees in the state or to all employees where the company is based in that state
Ban health insurance companies in the state from covering abortion
Ban payment processing or professional services companies working with anyone that provides abortion services
Moreover some states will likely look to class anything other than prophylactic contraception as abortion. They are also likely to look to prosecute anyone who has a miscarriage as an abortion if they can make any link to any behaviour they can pin on a woman as “bad” (despite the latest research showing most miscarriages are due to genetic abnormalities).
The GOP and American right are huge on the sanctity of life, right up to birth.
Let's also not forget miscarriages, which are technically classed as "spontaneous abortions".Making it illegal for women to travel to other states
Criminalise anyone who helps them travel
Ban companies from providing health insurance that covers abortion, either to employees in the state or to all employees where the company is based in that state
Ban health insurance companies in the state from covering abortion
Ban payment processing or professional services companies working with anyone that provides abortion services
Moreover some states will likely look to class anything other than prophylactic contraception as abortion. They are also likely to look to prosecute anyone who has a miscarriage as an abortion if they can make any link to any behaviour they can pin on a woman as “bad” (despite the latest research showing most miscarriages are due to genetic abnormalities).
The GOP and American right are huge on the sanctity of life, right up to birth.
We have already seen from other countries that ban abortion that it can make access to medical care for a miscarriage very difficult. There have been deaths because doctors have been reluctant to treat a miscarriage in case they are accused of assisting in an abortion. In Texas it has been difficult for some to access the two main drugs to treat a miscarriage (mifepristone and misoprostol) because the pharmacist has been suspicious that they're actually being used for an abortion (because they are also used in abortions, they do the exact same thing regardless of the circumstance).
I've had 2 miscarriage. Both times I have shown up in A&E with a rather horrific amount of blood soaking into my trousers. To a suspicious person, or a non-medical person, I might have been trying to remove an unwanted baby with the old coathanger trick. Me and my husband could have been sitting at home, grieving our dead babies, when police come knocking at the door because they've been told we had an illegal miscarriage. Especially for the second, which I miscarried (at 9 weeks) into the toilet and couldn't face fishing out, so had nothing to take to the hospital. Is that true, or was I trying to hide evidence that I aborted my child?
People will die because they miscarry a baby that they really wanted, but medical treatment will be made harder for them to access.
No one has a right to demand that you, as a living person, give up one of your kidneys, or a lung, or a piece of your liver in order to extend the life of a sick person that needs a transplant, even though you could be giving them a chance at decades more life. This is because you have the right to say "no" to something that will damage your health or even risk your life, even if it means that someone else will die because of your choice.
But because someone is born with a uterus and a vagina, they should be forced to risk their health (hyperemsis gravidarum, gestational diabetes, tear damage to the bladder and/or bowel, or a prolapse) or life (placental abruption and pre-eclampsia can both be fatal) to maintain another life.
MentalSarcasm said:
Let's also not forget miscarriages, which are technically classed as "spontaneous abortions".
We have already seen from other countries that ban abortion that it can make access to medical care for a miscarriage very difficult. There have been deaths because doctors have been reluctant to treat a miscarriage in case they are accused of assisting in an abortion. In Texas it has been difficult for some to access the two main drugs to treat a miscarriage (mifepristone and misoprostol) because the pharmacist has been suspicious that they're actually being used for an abortion (because they are also used in abortions, they do the exact same thing regardless of the circumstance).
I've had 2 miscarriage. Both times I have shown up in A&E with a rather horrific amount of blood soaking into my trousers. To a suspicious person, or a non-medical person, I might have been trying to remove an unwanted baby with the old coathanger trick. Me and my husband could have been sitting at home, grieving our dead babies, when police come knocking at the door because they've been told we had an illegal miscarriage. Especially for the second, which I miscarried (at 9 weeks) into the toilet and couldn't face fishing out, so had nothing to take to the hospital. Is that true, or was I trying to hide evidence that I aborted my child?
People will die because they miscarry a baby that they really wanted, but medical treatment will be made harder for them to access.
No one has a right to demand that you, as a living person, give up one of your kidneys, or a lung, or a piece of your liver in order to extend the life of a sick person that needs a transplant, even though you could be giving them a chance at decades more life. This is because you have the right to say "no" to something that will damage your health or even risk your life, even if it means that someone else will die because of your choice.
But because someone is born with a uterus and a vagina, they should be forced to risk their health (hyperemsis gravidarum, gestational diabetes, tear damage to the bladder and/or bowel, or a prolapse) or life (placental abruption and pre-eclampsia can both be fatal) to maintain another life.
Well said, and thank you for saying it.We have already seen from other countries that ban abortion that it can make access to medical care for a miscarriage very difficult. There have been deaths because doctors have been reluctant to treat a miscarriage in case they are accused of assisting in an abortion. In Texas it has been difficult for some to access the two main drugs to treat a miscarriage (mifepristone and misoprostol) because the pharmacist has been suspicious that they're actually being used for an abortion (because they are also used in abortions, they do the exact same thing regardless of the circumstance).
I've had 2 miscarriage. Both times I have shown up in A&E with a rather horrific amount of blood soaking into my trousers. To a suspicious person, or a non-medical person, I might have been trying to remove an unwanted baby with the old coathanger trick. Me and my husband could have been sitting at home, grieving our dead babies, when police come knocking at the door because they've been told we had an illegal miscarriage. Especially for the second, which I miscarried (at 9 weeks) into the toilet and couldn't face fishing out, so had nothing to take to the hospital. Is that true, or was I trying to hide evidence that I aborted my child?
People will die because they miscarry a baby that they really wanted, but medical treatment will be made harder for them to access.
No one has a right to demand that you, as a living person, give up one of your kidneys, or a lung, or a piece of your liver in order to extend the life of a sick person that needs a transplant, even though you could be giving them a chance at decades more life. This is because you have the right to say "no" to something that will damage your health or even risk your life, even if it means that someone else will die because of your choice.
But because someone is born with a uterus and a vagina, they should be forced to risk their health (hyperemsis gravidarum, gestational diabetes, tear damage to the bladder and/or bowel, or a prolapse) or life (placental abruption and pre-eclampsia can both be fatal) to maintain another life.
MentalSarcasm said:
Electro1980 said:
The big issue really isn’t states deciding the laws on abortion, but the utterly disproportionate way they will implement them:
Making it illegal for women to travel to other states
Criminalise anyone who helps them travel
Ban companies from providing health insurance that covers abortion, either to employees in the state or to all employees where the company is based in that state
Ban health insurance companies in the state from covering abortion
Ban payment processing or professional services companies working with anyone that provides abortion services
Moreover some states will likely look to class anything other than prophylactic contraception as abortion. They are also likely to look to prosecute anyone who has a miscarriage as an abortion if they can make any link to any behaviour they can pin on a woman as “bad” (despite the latest research showing most miscarriages are due to genetic abnormalities).
The GOP and American right are huge on the sanctity of life, right up to birth.
Let's also not forget miscarriages, which are technically classed as "spontaneous abortions".Making it illegal for women to travel to other states
Criminalise anyone who helps them travel
Ban companies from providing health insurance that covers abortion, either to employees in the state or to all employees where the company is based in that state
Ban health insurance companies in the state from covering abortion
Ban payment processing or professional services companies working with anyone that provides abortion services
Moreover some states will likely look to class anything other than prophylactic contraception as abortion. They are also likely to look to prosecute anyone who has a miscarriage as an abortion if they can make any link to any behaviour they can pin on a woman as “bad” (despite the latest research showing most miscarriages are due to genetic abnormalities).
The GOP and American right are huge on the sanctity of life, right up to birth.
We have already seen from other countries that ban abortion that it can make access to medical care for a miscarriage very difficult. There have been deaths because doctors have been reluctant to treat a miscarriage in case they are accused of assisting in an abortion. In Texas it has been difficult for some to access the two main drugs to treat a miscarriage (mifepristone and misoprostol) because the pharmacist has been suspicious that they're actually being used for an abortion (because they are also used in abortions, they do the exact same thing regardless of the circumstance).
I've had 2 miscarriage. Both times I have shown up in A&E with a rather horrific amount of blood soaking into my trousers. To a suspicious person, or a non-medical person, I might have been trying to remove an unwanted baby with the old coathanger trick. Me and my husband could have been sitting at home, grieving our dead babies, when police come knocking at the door because they've been told we had an illegal miscarriage. Especially for the second, which I miscarried (at 9 weeks) into the toilet and couldn't face fishing out, so had nothing to take to the hospital. Is that true, or was I trying to hide evidence that I aborted my child?
People will die because they miscarry a baby that they really wanted, but medical treatment will be made harder for them to access.
No one has a right to demand that you, as a living person, give up one of your kidneys, or a lung, or a piece of your liver in order to extend the life of a sick person that needs a transplant, even though you could be giving them a chance at decades more life. This is because you have the right to say "no" to something that will damage your health or even risk your life, even if it means that someone else will die because of your choice.
But because someone is born with a uterus and a vagina, they should be forced to risk their health (hyperemsis gravidarum, gestational diabetes, tear damage to the bladder and/or bowel, or a prolapse) or life (placental abruption and pre-eclampsia can both be fatal) to maintain another life.
Unfortunately it is still the case, despite a complete lack of evidence (and evidence now that in fact there is a good explanation for most), that mothers are blamed for miscarriage even in much more liberal societies than th e US and the belief that there must have been some external factor or fault.
ZedLeg said:
MiniMan64 said:
Is there a single woman posting on this thread or are we a bunch of men debating what women should be allowed to do and not do with their own bodies?
I’d be curious as to how many of the guys in here saying this is shocking but think nothing of being misogynistic in the multiple threads that pop up about women who it’s decided are bad.If we are going down the route of well it is my (well womens) body, why are there laws requiring people to wear a safety belt while in a car or helmet while riding a motor bike. Why do I have to share my salary with my partner if I earn more?.
I don't really agree with abortion from a moral point of view, not sure if it is always wrong though. On the fence!
Zumbruk said:
Hypocrisy based on your misunderstanding.
What does "life" mean in this context? Answer the question.
Since you started with just telling everyone they are wrong and insulting people, rather than providing any counterpoint it’s clear you are not after a productive discussion, only trying to find a gotcha. Answering your question does not provide any useful movement towards discussion in, for example, the different definitions of life, or life vs personhood. It’s clear you simply want to be seen to hold a moral high ground over others based on what you assume their views are. I am not going to indulge your ego like that.What does "life" mean in this context? Answer the question.
I Know Nothing said:
Well does it not take two people to concive and unless woman was forced then she concented to the act of conception.
If we are going down the route of well it is my (well womens) body, why are there laws requiring people to wear a safety belt while in a car or helmet while riding a motor bike. Why do I have to share my salary with my partner if I earn more?.
I don't really agree with abortion from a moral point of view, not sure if it is always wrong though. On the fence!
That user name was well chosenIf we are going down the route of well it is my (well womens) body, why are there laws requiring people to wear a safety belt while in a car or helmet while riding a motor bike. Why do I have to share my salary with my partner if I earn more?.
I don't really agree with abortion from a moral point of view, not sure if it is always wrong though. On the fence!
MentalSarcasm said:
Let's also not forget miscarriages, which are technically classed as "spontaneous abortions".
We have already seen from other countries that ban abortion that it can make access to medical care for a miscarriage very difficult. There have been deaths because doctors have been reluctant to treat a miscarriage in case they are accused of assisting in an abortion. In Texas it has been difficult for some to access the two main drugs to treat a miscarriage (mifepristone and misoprostol) because the pharmacist has been suspicious that they're actually being used for an abortion (because they are also used in abortions, they do the exact same thing regardless of the circumstance).
I've had 2 miscarriage. Both times I have shown up in A&E with a rather horrific amount of blood soaking into my trousers. To a suspicious person, or a non-medical person, I might have been trying to remove an unwanted baby with the old coathanger trick. Me and my husband could have been sitting at home, grieving our dead babies, when police come knocking at the door because they've been told we had an illegal miscarriage. Especially for the second, which I miscarried (at 9 weeks) into the toilet and couldn't face fishing out, so had nothing to take to the hospital. Is that true, or was I trying to hide evidence that I aborted my child?
People will die because they miscarry a baby that they really wanted, but medical treatment will be made harder for them to access.
No one has a right to demand that you, as a living person, give up one of your kidneys, or a lung, or a piece of your liver in order to extend the life of a sick person that needs a transplant, even though you could be giving them a chance at decades more life. This is because you have the right to say "no" to something that will damage your health or even risk your life, even if it means that someone else will die because of your choice.
But because someone is born with a uterus and a vagina, they should be forced to risk their health (hyperemsis gravidarum, gestational diabetes, tear damage to the bladder and/or bowel, or a prolapse) or life (placental abruption and pre-eclampsia can both be fatal) to maintain another life.
What an excellent (if harrowing and upsetting) post.We have already seen from other countries that ban abortion that it can make access to medical care for a miscarriage very difficult. There have been deaths because doctors have been reluctant to treat a miscarriage in case they are accused of assisting in an abortion. In Texas it has been difficult for some to access the two main drugs to treat a miscarriage (mifepristone and misoprostol) because the pharmacist has been suspicious that they're actually being used for an abortion (because they are also used in abortions, they do the exact same thing regardless of the circumstance).
I've had 2 miscarriage. Both times I have shown up in A&E with a rather horrific amount of blood soaking into my trousers. To a suspicious person, or a non-medical person, I might have been trying to remove an unwanted baby with the old coathanger trick. Me and my husband could have been sitting at home, grieving our dead babies, when police come knocking at the door because they've been told we had an illegal miscarriage. Especially for the second, which I miscarried (at 9 weeks) into the toilet and couldn't face fishing out, so had nothing to take to the hospital. Is that true, or was I trying to hide evidence that I aborted my child?
People will die because they miscarry a baby that they really wanted, but medical treatment will be made harder for them to access.
No one has a right to demand that you, as a living person, give up one of your kidneys, or a lung, or a piece of your liver in order to extend the life of a sick person that needs a transplant, even though you could be giving them a chance at decades more life. This is because you have the right to say "no" to something that will damage your health or even risk your life, even if it means that someone else will die because of your choice.
But because someone is born with a uterus and a vagina, they should be forced to risk their health (hyperemsis gravidarum, gestational diabetes, tear damage to the bladder and/or bowel, or a prolapse) or life (placental abruption and pre-eclampsia can both be fatal) to maintain another life.
Electro1980 said:
Since you started with just telling everyone they are wrong and insulting people, rather than providing any counterpoint it’s clear you are not after a productive discussion, only trying to find a gotcha. Answering your question does not provide any useful movement towards discussion in, for example, the different definitions of life, or life vs personhood. It’s clear you simply want to be seen to hold a moral high ground over others based on what you assume their views are. I am not going to indulge your ego like that.
Translation; "I have no data to back up my assertions, I'm butt-hurt because that's been pointed out, I don't understand how to conduct a rational argument, but I do like straw-men and I'm a hypocrite".Oh, yeah, and what proof is there that "life begins at conception"? What do you mean by "life"? Still waiting for an answer.
biggbn said:
Handmaid's Tale starting to look a lot less like fiction....wow. I believe some states had a trigger fitted into their laws that instantly made abortion illegal if this case was overturned. Welcome to civilisation 2022.
I don't think anyone calls the US civilised these days. I Know Nothing said:
Well does it not take two people to concive and unless woman was forced then she concented to the act of conception.
Not at all. there are several reasons why a woman might have consented to sex but did not want a baby. Contraception isnt always freely available. Where it's available it's not guaranteed 100% effective, and some women don't use it for religious reasonsI Know Nothing said:
If we are going down the route of well it is my (well womens) body, why are there laws requiring people to wear a safety belt while in a car or helmet while riding a motor bike.
AIUI you don't in the US. personally I'd be fine with somebody not wearing seatbelts or helmets as long as they didn't expect the NHS to treat them I Know Nothing said:
I don't really agree with abortion from a moral point of view,
I dislike the thought of abortion but I think it should be completely the woman's choice.Rufus Stone said:
Zumbruk said:
Translation; "I have no data to back up my assertions, I'm butt-hurt because that's been pointed out, I don't understand how to conduct a rational argument, I like straw-men and I'm a hypocrite".
Nah, he's politely called you a troll.legzr1 said:
MentalSarcasm said:
Let's also not forget miscarriages, which are technically classed as "spontaneous abortions".
We have already seen from other countries that ban abortion that it can make access to medical care for a miscarriage very difficult. There have been deaths because doctors have been reluctant to treat a miscarriage in case they are accused of assisting in an abortion. In Texas it has been difficult for some to access the two main drugs to treat a miscarriage (mifepristone and misoprostol) because the pharmacist has been suspicious that they're actually being used for an abortion (because they are also used in abortions, they do the exact same thing regardless of the circumstance).
I've had 2 miscarriage. Both times I have shown up in A&E with a rather horrific amount of blood soaking into my trousers. To a suspicious person, or a non-medical person, I might have been trying to remove an unwanted baby with the old coathanger trick. Me and my husband could have been sitting at home, grieving our dead babies, when police come knocking at the door because they've been told we had an illegal miscarriage. Especially for the second, which I miscarried (at 9 weeks) into the toilet and couldn't face fishing out, so had nothing to take to the hospital. Is that true, or was I trying to hide evidence that I aborted my child?
People will die because they miscarry a baby that they really wanted, but medical treatment will be made harder for them to access.
No one has a right to demand that you, as a living person, give up one of your kidneys, or a lung, or a piece of your liver in order to extend the life of a sick person that needs a transplant, even though you could be giving them a chance at decades more life. This is because you have the right to say "no" to something that will damage your health or even risk your life, even if it means that someone else will die because of your choice.
But because someone is born with a uterus and a vagina, they should be forced to risk their health (hyperemsis gravidarum, gestational diabetes, tear damage to the bladder and/or bowel, or a prolapse) or life (placental abruption and pre-eclampsia can both be fatal) to maintain another life.
What an excellent (if harrowing and upsetting) post.We have already seen from other countries that ban abortion that it can make access to medical care for a miscarriage very difficult. There have been deaths because doctors have been reluctant to treat a miscarriage in case they are accused of assisting in an abortion. In Texas it has been difficult for some to access the two main drugs to treat a miscarriage (mifepristone and misoprostol) because the pharmacist has been suspicious that they're actually being used for an abortion (because they are also used in abortions, they do the exact same thing regardless of the circumstance).
I've had 2 miscarriage. Both times I have shown up in A&E with a rather horrific amount of blood soaking into my trousers. To a suspicious person, or a non-medical person, I might have been trying to remove an unwanted baby with the old coathanger trick. Me and my husband could have been sitting at home, grieving our dead babies, when police come knocking at the door because they've been told we had an illegal miscarriage. Especially for the second, which I miscarried (at 9 weeks) into the toilet and couldn't face fishing out, so had nothing to take to the hospital. Is that true, or was I trying to hide evidence that I aborted my child?
People will die because they miscarry a baby that they really wanted, but medical treatment will be made harder for them to access.
No one has a right to demand that you, as a living person, give up one of your kidneys, or a lung, or a piece of your liver in order to extend the life of a sick person that needs a transplant, even though you could be giving them a chance at decades more life. This is because you have the right to say "no" to something that will damage your health or even risk your life, even if it means that someone else will die because of your choice.
But because someone is born with a uterus and a vagina, they should be forced to risk their health (hyperemsis gravidarum, gestational diabetes, tear damage to the bladder and/or bowel, or a prolapse) or life (placental abruption and pre-eclampsia can both be fatal) to maintain another life.
Silverbullet767 said:
MiniMan64 said:
Is there a single woman posting on this thread or are we a bunch of men debating what women should be allowed to do and not do with their own bodies?
Good point, we and all men should stfu on this. No man should decide anything to do with womens freedoms.America's still f
ked though.Silverbullet767 said:
MiniMan64 said:
Is there a single woman posting on this thread or are we a bunch of men debating what women should be allowed to do and not do with their own bodies?
Good point, we and all men should stfu on this. No man should decide anything to do with womens freedoms.America's still f
ked though.It is not a contradictory stance. You are not telling women what to do. You are supporting them being able to choose for themselves.
ChocolateFrog said:
biggbn said:
Handmaid's Tale starting to look a lot less like fiction....wow. I believe some states had a trigger fitted into their laws that instantly made abortion illegal if this case was overturned. Welcome to civilisation 2022.
I don't think anyone calls the US civilised these days. Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff