Reform UK - A symptom of all that is wrong?

Reform UK - A symptom of all that is wrong?

Author
Discussion

LF5335

7,443 posts

51 months

Sunday 14th January
quotequote all
gt_12345 said:
Gecko1978 said:
I have seen some of their adverts on social media and honestly it's like 1939 Germany quite scary.

1) net zero migration (appealing)
2) no waiting lists (a dream)
3) lower taxes (frankly a must)


But what appears to be quite far right ideology.....nah thanks
Which of those 3 policies are "far right"

???
He said ideology, not those three specific points.

gt_12345

1,873 posts

43 months

Sunday 14th January
quotequote all
LF5335 said:
gt_12345 said:
LF5335 said:
86 said:
If we move to PR parties like this will have a decent voice
They may have a voice. Whether that’s “decent” depends where your moral compass sits.
Someone is immoral because they want less immigration?

Wtf???
You get triggered far too easily. There is a lot more to what Reform want to do and little of it is decent.
Okay, so what is it thats immoral?

gt_12345

1,873 posts

43 months

Sunday 14th January
quotequote all
LF5335 said:
gt_12345 said:
Gecko1978 said:
I have seen some of their adverts on social media and honestly it's like 1939 Germany quite scary.

1) net zero migration (appealing)
2) no waiting lists (a dream)
3) lower taxes (frankly a must)


But what appears to be quite far right ideology.....nah thanks
Which of those 3 policies are "far right"

???
He said ideology, not those three specific points.
I'd like to know what is "far right" about Reform?

PurplePenguin

3,232 posts

41 months

Sunday 14th January
quotequote all
LF5335 said:
gt_12345 said:
Gecko1978 said:
I have seen some of their adverts on social media and honestly it's like 1939 Germany quite scary.

1) net zero migration (appealing)
2) no waiting lists (a dream)
3) lower taxes (frankly a must)


But what appears to be quite far right ideology.....nah thanks
Which of those 3 policies are "far right"

???
He said ideology, not those three specific points.
Godwin’s Law

LF5335

7,443 posts

51 months

Sunday 14th January
quotequote all
gt_12345 said:
Okay, so what is it thats immoral?
https://www.reformparty.uk/

“Make Britain great again”

Gee, I wonder who they’re pandering to with that Trumpism. If you’re going to pretend to be credible then maybe don’t copy the most morally bankrupt President in US history.

anonymous-user

62 months

Sunday 14th January
quotequote all
frisbee said:
How is it fair that a party that gets 10% of the vote doesn't get a single MP?
How many MPs should they get? And which ones?

gt_12345

1,873 posts

43 months

Sunday 14th January
quotequote all
LF5335 said:
gt_12345 said:
Okay, so what is it thats immoral?
https://www.reformparty.uk/

“Make Britain great again”

Gee, I wonder who they’re pandering to with that Trumpism. If you’re going to pretend to be credible then maybe don’t copy the most morally bankrupt President in US history.
Reform are immoral for saying make Britain great again?

You're really struggling...

LF5335

7,443 posts

51 months

Sunday 14th January
quotequote all
gt_12345 said:
LF5335 said:
gt_12345 said:
Okay, so what is it thats immoral?
https://www.reformparty.uk/

“Make Britain great again”

Gee, I wonder who they’re pandering to with that Trumpism. If you’re going to pretend to be credible then maybe don’t copy the most morally bankrupt President in US history.
Reform are immoral for saying make Britain great again?

You're really scraping....
I didn’t say that though did I? Maybe read it again.

gt_12345

1,873 posts

43 months

Sunday 14th January
quotequote all
LF5335 said:
gt_12345 said:
LF5335 said:
gt_12345 said:
Okay, so what is it thats immoral?
https://www.reformparty.uk/

“Make Britain great again”

Gee, I wonder who they’re pandering to with that Trumpism. If you’re going to pretend to be credible then maybe don’t copy the most morally bankrupt President in US history.
Reform are immoral for saying make Britain great again?

You're really scraping....
I didn’t say that though did I? Maybe read it again.
Actually, you did.

I'll sit here and wait until someone can tell me why Reform are "far right". So far, nothing.

Currently it seems to be a term used by (certain people) who think anything right of their perspective is "far right" or "waycist".

105.4

4,214 posts

79 months

Sunday 14th January
quotequote all
Gecko1978 said:
I have seen some of their adverts on social media and honestly it's like 1939 Germany quite scary.

1) net zero migration (appealing)
2) no waiting lists (a dream)
3) lower taxes (frankly a must)


But what appears to be quite far right ideology.....nah thanks
Surely your comments are a poor attempt at satire? confused

Having some semblance of a sensible immigration policy is reminiscent of Nazi Party circa 1939?
No. No it isn’t. However having an open border immigration policy is frankly madness. The primary job of a government is to ensure the safety of its populace. This cannot be achieved if your borders are so porous that you’ve no idea who is entering the country.

Expediant healthcare waiting times is far-right and something to be feared? Have you even given your comments any thought at all? As far as I’m aware, the socialist utopia of Cuba has very short waiting times for healthcare, (despite everything else falling to pieces)? So by your logic, Cuba is “far-right” ?

And lower taxes, or one could suggest, better value for money for the taxpayer and considerably less public spending waste, is also “far-right”? Can I deduce that your political stance is for greater mismanagement, more inefficiency and even more £’s wasted by government, resulting in increasing national debt and higher taxes?


Have you ever stopped to consider for a moment that you might actually be insane?

Or are you just trolling?

For what’s its worth, a vote for Reform is a protest vote. With the majority that our current government has, tighter immigration laws that are actually enforced and the necessary resources for the Border Force to do their job properly is easily achievable. It’s just that our current government, for whatever reason, doesn’t want to do so.

Reducing NHS waiting times, (for actual treatment), is a lot more difficult, and would likely take a decade or more to achieve.

A tighter reign on government spending, spending more wisely, more efficiently, that’s certainly achievable in, I imagine, quite short order. Yet again, it’s something that neither the Conservatives or Labour actually want to implement, much to my immense frustration.

QJumper

2,709 posts

34 months

Sunday 14th January
quotequote all
ntiz said:
They actually have a fairly detailed manifesto on their website, it’s worth a read to get a feel for them.

I’m not voting for them or anything but from what I read they aren’t totally insane. Of course you can shoot holes through it but I have never read a manifesto that you couldn’t.
I'm sure they're not totally insane, and my point wasn't to simply to shoot holes through their manifesto. In fact it's not so mich the manifesto that's the issue, and more how it's likely to be achieved.

So, if one takes their key goals of lower taxes, net zero immigration, zero (note zero and not lower) waiting lists, and cheaper energy, could you summarise the main ways they are proposing to achieve these things. Don't need detail, just broad principles will do.

In the absence of that it sounds like an ad that promises "eat unlimited doughnuts, sit on your arse all day, and have a flat stomach"

Random Account No6

5,239 posts

194 months

Sunday 14th January
quotequote all
When you have no hope of being in power or of influencing those in power, you can promise whatever you want.


Some people are dim enough to fall for it.

KarlMac

4,480 posts

149 months

Sunday 14th January
quotequote all
Kermit power said:
You couldn’t have made a poster more perfect to appeal to boomers if you tried. It’s almost satire.

105.4

4,214 posts

79 months

Sunday 14th January
quotequote all
James6112 said:
All good
Split the Far Right Vote
Deliver a centre left Government
(Reform Uk a Labour mole? rofl)
I don’t think you know what “far-right” actually is.

Hants PHer

6,041 posts

119 months

Sunday 14th January
quotequote all
I don't believe that Richard Tice expects Reform to gain any seats at the next election. That's a function of the current electoral system which makes it almost impossible for 'challenger' parties. More likely is that Tice intends to move the Tories towards Reform thinking, especially cutting out waste in public spending, lower tax and immigration control. We've seen this M.O. before, with UKIP.

Voters like me cannot vote for the incompetent ConSocialist incumbents, nor for Starmer's equally mediocre alternative. If I was to vote Reform, and it acted as a catalyst for the Tories to actually start acting like Conservatives, I'd consider it a vote used rather than a vote wasted.

gt_12345

1,873 posts

43 months

Sunday 14th January
quotequote all
105.4 said:
Gecko1978 said:
I have seen some of their adverts on social media and honestly it's like 1939 Germany quite scary.

1) net zero migration (appealing)
2) no waiting lists (a dream)
3) lower taxes (frankly a must)


But what appears to be quite far right ideology.....nah thanks
Surely your comments are a poor attempt at satire? confused

Having some semblance of a sensible immigration policy is reminiscent of Nazi Party circa 1939?
No. No it isn’t. However having an open border immigration policy is frankly madness. The primary job of a government is to ensure the safety of its populace. This cannot be achieved if your borders are so porous that you’ve no idea who is entering the country.

Expediant healthcare waiting times is far-right and something to be feared? Have you even given your comments any thought at all? As far as I’m aware, the socialist utopia of Cuba has very short waiting times for healthcare, (despite everything else falling to pieces)? So by your logic, Cuba is “far-right” ?

And lower taxes, or one could suggest, better value for money for the taxpayer and considerably less public spending waste, is also “far-right”? Can I deduce that your political stance is for greater mismanagement, more inefficiency and even more £’s wasted by government, resulting in increasing national debt and higher taxes?


Have you ever stopped to consider for a moment that you might actually be insane?

Or are you just trolling?

For what’s its worth, a vote for Reform is a protest vote. With the majority that our current government has, tighter immigration laws that are actually enforced and the necessary resources for the Border Force to do their job properly is easily achievable. It’s just that our current government, for whatever reason, doesn’t want to do so.

Reducing NHS waiting times, (for actual treatment), is a lot more difficult, and would likely take a decade or more to achieve.

A tighter reign on government spending, spending more wisely, more efficiently, that’s certainly achievable in, I imagine, quite short order. Yet again, it’s something that neither the Conservatives or Labour actually want to implement, much to my immense frustration.
Stop talking so much sense

105.4

4,214 posts

79 months

Sunday 14th January
quotequote all
Hants PHer said:
I don't believe that Richard Tice expects Reform to gain any seats at the next election. That's a function of the current electoral system which makes it almost impossible for 'challenger' parties. More likely is that Tice intends to move the Tories towards Reform thinking, especially cutting out waste in public spending, lower tax and immigration control. We've seen this M.O. before, with UKIP.

Voters like me cannot vote for the incompetent ConSocialist incumbents, nor for Starmer's equally mediocre alternative. If I was to vote Reform, and it acted as a catalyst for the Tories to actually start acting like Conservatives, I'd consider it a vote used rather than a vote wasted.
That pretty much sums up my thinking.


Let’s wind the clock back 40 years and look at our choices.

In the Blue Corner, weighing in at 154 lb’s, the Iron Lady, Margaret Thatcher.

In the Red Corner, weighing in at 188 lb’s, all the way from Wales, the Ginger Ninja, Neil Kinnock.

As voters, we knew what we were getting. Both Leaders were people of principle. Both were political Leaders whom I respected.


And what do we have now from all three main parties, (four if you include the SNP)? An absolute cesspit of underachievement, a gaggle of spineless cowards intent on looking after only themselves, not the people whom they serve. Bland, wishy-washy, grey, morally bankrupt bds who care even less for you than they do for the dead wasp on their windowsill, until that is, the time when they need you to vote for them so they can continue to dig their disgusting, greedy, grubby little snouts in the bottomless trough of the public purse for another five years, all the while laughing at how much of a gullible tt you’ve been to vote for them.


fk them all, regardless of the their party affiliation. s !
I utterly resent even a penny of my taxes being spent to provide a single one of them any degree of comfort, financially or otherwise.

Knock it all down, wipe the slate clean, because what we have now isn’t working.

520TORQUES

6,607 posts

23 months

Sunday 14th January
quotequote all
LF5335 said:
https://www.reformparty.uk/

“Make Britain great again”

Gee, I wonder who they’re pandering to with that Trumpism. If you’re going to pretend to be credible then maybe don’t copy the most morally bankrupt President in US history.
Make America Great Again was a Ronald Reagan slogan he used to win the election in 1980, it came about as the USA economy was failing in the late 70's, just as it was in the UK.

Nothing in politics is new.

Kermit power

Original Poster:

29,475 posts

221 months

Sunday 14th January
quotequote all
Bradgate said:
It’s perfectly reasonable for Reform to exist, and their policy agenda is entirely legitimate. People who want much lower taxes, much smaller government, radical welfare cuts, more private sector involvement in healthcare, much lower legal immigration, radical action to tackle illegal immigration, an end to ‘net zero’ policies and pushback against the ‘woke’ agenda should have a party to vote for in a functioning democracy. Particularly as the Tories have abandoned any pretence of supporting a small-government, low-tax economically libertarian agenda.

The problem is that FPTP prevents such parties getting candidates elected in just the same way it prevents Green parties &radical left-wing parties getting elected.
I agree that they should be allowed to exist, and fervently believe that we desperately need to get rid of FPTP so that everyone's vote carries the same weight regardless of where they live and whom they want to vote for, as we certainly don't have anything that can reasonably be called democracy at the moment.

That in no way changes the fact that it is simply not possible to deliver Reform UK's manifesto promises as they are mutually exclusive without either enforced euthanasia or enforced parenthood, hence my amazement that 1 in 10 people are planning to vote for them.

hidetheelephants

27,913 posts

201 months

Sunday 14th January
quotequote all
Hants PHer said:
I don't believe that Richard Tice expects Reform to gain any seats at the next election. That's a function of the current electoral system which makes it almost impossible for 'challenger' parties. More likely is that Tice intends to move the Tories towards Reform thinking, especially cutting out waste in public spending, lower tax and immigration control. We've seen this M.O. before, with UKIP.

Voters like me cannot vote for the incompetent ConSocialist incumbents, nor for Starmer's equally mediocre alternative. If I was to vote Reform, and it acted as a catalyst for the Tories to actually start acting like Conservatives, I'd consider it a vote used rather than a vote wasted.
So if the tories promised those things that they won't and can't deliver you'd vote for them? Priceless! rofl