British culture - Is there any such thing?
Discussion
We don’t meet violence on to criminals. Even the the worst of them.
No one gets disappeared in the night for saying something the state doesn’t like
You can literally do pretty much what you want, protest, complain criticise without fear of repercussion.
You can embrace your sexuality, whatever it is, without fear of death.
There’s healthcare free for all at the point of need
Groups of people who are routinely marginalised and discriminated in other parts of world; women, minority ethnic groups, disabled have rights enshrined into law.
We are tolerant of other beliefs. Arguably more so than anywhere else on the planet
We are, in the main, possessed of self deprecating humour, understand sarcasm and gifted the world the English language. It’s that language that means many of us, perhaps wrongly, never felt the need to learn another language.
Our history is rich with achievement and success.
All these things and hundreds more create British culture. We share some of this and our values, with other nations. But our culture is largely unique to us.
No one gets disappeared in the night for saying something the state doesn’t like
You can literally do pretty much what you want, protest, complain criticise without fear of repercussion.
You can embrace your sexuality, whatever it is, without fear of death.
There’s healthcare free for all at the point of need
Groups of people who are routinely marginalised and discriminated in other parts of world; women, minority ethnic groups, disabled have rights enshrined into law.
We are tolerant of other beliefs. Arguably more so than anywhere else on the planet
We are, in the main, possessed of self deprecating humour, understand sarcasm and gifted the world the English language. It’s that language that means many of us, perhaps wrongly, never felt the need to learn another language.
Our history is rich with achievement and success.
All these things and hundreds more create British culture. We share some of this and our values, with other nations. But our culture is largely unique to us.
highway said:
We don’t meet violence on to criminals. Even the the worst of them.
No one gets disappeared in the night for saying something the state doesn’t like
You can literally do pretty much what you want, protest, complain criticise without fear of repercussion.
You can embrace your sexuality, whatever it is, without fear of death.
There’s healthcare free for all at the point of need
Groups of people who are routinely marginalised and discriminated in other parts of world; women, minority ethnic groups, disabled have rights enshrined into law.
We are tolerant of other beliefs. Arguably more so than anywhere else on the planet
We are, in the main, possessed of self deprecating humour, understand sarcasm and gifted the world the English language. It’s that language that means many of us, perhaps wrongly, never felt the need to learn another language.
Our history is rich with achievement and success.
All these things and hundreds more create British culture. We share some of this and our values, with other nations. But our culture is largely unique to us.
Not a bad try. No one gets disappeared in the night for saying something the state doesn’t like
You can literally do pretty much what you want, protest, complain criticise without fear of repercussion.
You can embrace your sexuality, whatever it is, without fear of death.
There’s healthcare free for all at the point of need
Groups of people who are routinely marginalised and discriminated in other parts of world; women, minority ethnic groups, disabled have rights enshrined into law.
We are tolerant of other beliefs. Arguably more so than anywhere else on the planet
We are, in the main, possessed of self deprecating humour, understand sarcasm and gifted the world the English language. It’s that language that means many of us, perhaps wrongly, never felt the need to learn another language.
Our history is rich with achievement and success.
All these things and hundreds more create British culture. We share some of this and our values, with other nations. But our culture is largely unique to us.
But on the third one the Government has some new rules on that. On the fourth, being transgender was one of the reasons Briannah Ghey was killed and she is perhaps the inspiration for this thread. On the fifth one, tell that to the people queuing for the dentist in Bristol the other day.
Ashfordian said:
The above is correct, but we should not forget that historically the British will have influenced many other countries around the world so there will be a blurring or imitation.
Some minor examples of British culture, and you don't have to like them but you and someone living in an inner City council estate will be able to identify them:
- Changing of the Guard
- FA Cup final day
- The British Pub
- An English Breakfast
- Red telephone boxes
- Black cabs
It's really not hard to find examples of British Culture but you take them for granted. For example a siesta is seen as Spanish culture, a Diner is American culture. Both are easy to see as an outsider.
Identify them, yes. Identify with them?Some minor examples of British culture, and you don't have to like them but you and someone living in an inner City council estate will be able to identify them:
- Changing of the Guard
- FA Cup final day
- The British Pub
- An English Breakfast
- Red telephone boxes
- Black cabs
It's really not hard to find examples of British Culture but you take them for granted. For example a siesta is seen as Spanish culture, a Diner is American culture. Both are easy to see as an outsider.
The changing of the guard? I know what it is but I've never actually seen it, and it's hardly something that can be diluted by immigration, is it?
FA Cup Final day??? Surely most countries on the face of the planet have a football competition? I've never watched any of them (including the FA Cup), so I'd have no way of knowing if there's anything particularly British about it.
The British pub? Agreed, that is particularly British.
An English breakfast. Maybe, but how often does anyone actually have one? It would be interesting to know which is the more popular breakfast here... the English Breakfast American Corn Flakes or French croissants?
Red telephone boxes may well be iconic, and I suppose they actually have been wiped out by immigrants! Finnish Nokias, Swedish Ericssons, Korean Samsungs, American Apples...
Black cabs - in some ways this one actually underlines my point! We think of it as a universal British icon, but how many do you actually see outside big cities? Add urban vs rural to working class vs middle class.
Kermit power said:
Identify them, yes. Identify with them?
The changing of the guard? I know what it is but I've never actually seen it, and it's hardly something that can be diluted by immigration, is it?
FA Cup Final day??? Surely most countries on the face of the planet have a football competition? I've never watched any of them (including the FA Cup), so I'd have no way of knowing if there's anything particularly British about it.
The British pub? Agreed, that is particularly British.
An English breakfast. Maybe, but how often does anyone actually have one? It would be interesting to know which is the more popular breakfast here... the English Breakfast American Corn Flakes or French croissants?
Red telephone boxes may well be iconic, and I suppose they actually have been wiped out by immigrants! Finnish Nokias, Swedish Ericssons, Korean Samsungs, American Apples...
Black cabs - in some ways this one actually underlines my point! We think of it as a universal British icon, but how many do you actually see outside big cities? Add urban vs rural to working class vs middle class.
Well yes, everyone's experience is different, so really we can only generalise.The changing of the guard? I know what it is but I've never actually seen it, and it's hardly something that can be diluted by immigration, is it?
FA Cup Final day??? Surely most countries on the face of the planet have a football competition? I've never watched any of them (including the FA Cup), so I'd have no way of knowing if there's anything particularly British about it.
The British pub? Agreed, that is particularly British.
An English breakfast. Maybe, but how often does anyone actually have one? It would be interesting to know which is the more popular breakfast here... the English Breakfast American Corn Flakes or French croissants?
Red telephone boxes may well be iconic, and I suppose they actually have been wiped out by immigrants! Finnish Nokias, Swedish Ericssons, Korean Samsungs, American Apples...
Black cabs - in some ways this one actually underlines my point! We think of it as a universal British icon, but how many do you actually see outside big cities? Add urban vs rural to working class vs middle class.
“England is perhaps the only great country whose intellectuals
are ashamed of their own nationality. In left-wing circles it is always
felt that there is something slightly disgraceful in being an Englishman
and that it is a duty to snigger at every English institution, from horse
racing to suet puddings. It is a strange fact, but it is unquestionably
true that almost any English intellectual would feel more ashamed of
standing to attention during ‘God save the King’ than of stealing from a
poor box. All through the critical years many left-wingers were chipping
away at English morale, trying to spread an outlook that was sometimes
squashily pacifist, sometimes violently pro-Russian, but always
anti-British.”
The more things change…
The more things change…
Randy Winkman said:
Not a bad try.
But on the third one the Government has some new rules on that. On the fourth, being transgender was one of the reasons Briannah Ghey was killed and she is perhaps the inspiration for this thread. On the fifth one, tell that to the people queuing for the dentist in Bristol the other day.
I've got to be honest and say I've not actually read anything about her story! But on the third one the Government has some new rules on that. On the fourth, being transgender was one of the reasons Briannah Ghey was killed and she is perhaps the inspiration for this thread. On the fifth one, tell that to the people queuing for the dentist in Bristol the other day.
It really was just a general feeling that for every fellow Brit that I can really relate to, there's plenty that might as well be from a different planet. There's absolutely nothing wrong with being different of course, right up to the point where people start trying to insist we're all one for political purposes.
Kermit power said:
Identify them, yes. Identify with them?
The changing of the guard? I know what it is but I've never actually seen it, and it's hardly something that can be diluted by immigration, is it?
FA Cup Final day??? Surely most countries on the face of the planet have a football competition? I've never watched any of them (including the FA Cup), so I'd have no way of knowing if there's anything particularly British about it.
The British pub? Agreed, that is particularly British.
An English breakfast. Maybe, but how often does anyone actually have one? It would be interesting to know which is the more popular breakfast here... the English Breakfast American Corn Flakes or French croissants?
Red telephone boxes may well be iconic, and I suppose they actually have been wiped out by immigrants! Finnish Nokias, Swedish Ericssons, Korean Samsungs, American Apples...
Black cabs - in some ways this one actually underlines my point! We think of it as a universal British icon, but how many do you actually see outside big cities? Add urban vs rural to working class vs middle class.
You said the below in your OP:The changing of the guard? I know what it is but I've never actually seen it, and it's hardly something that can be diluted by immigration, is it?
FA Cup Final day??? Surely most countries on the face of the planet have a football competition? I've never watched any of them (including the FA Cup), so I'd have no way of knowing if there's anything particularly British about it.
The British pub? Agreed, that is particularly British.
An English breakfast. Maybe, but how often does anyone actually have one? It would be interesting to know which is the more popular breakfast here... the English Breakfast American Corn Flakes or French croissants?
Red telephone boxes may well be iconic, and I suppose they actually have been wiped out by immigrants! Finnish Nokias, Swedish Ericssons, Korean Samsungs, American Apples...
Black cabs - in some ways this one actually underlines my point! We think of it as a universal British icon, but how many do you actually see outside big cities? Add urban vs rural to working class vs middle class.
OP snippet said:
I can find huge amounts in common with people "like me" - similarly educated, similarly travelled, and so forth - regardless of whether they are British or from another country, but stick me next to someone who grew up on an inner city estate, left school at 16 and works in an unskilled job and what common frames of reference do we have? If we all suddenly had universal translators, though, I'd be that the inner city Brit would find plenty of common ground with people from a similar socioeconomic background in countries all across the globe.
Your response tells me you are the outlier. I deliberately chose the ones I listed and you have not failed to deliver with your ignorant responses.Just because you don't identify with them, does not make them part of what makes up British Culture.
I think you are simply trying, and failing to belittle those who have different experiences to immigration to you. If you walked a mile in their shoes you would do a lot of soul searching and growing up.
Your position has similarities to the nuggets who want to label the British Countryside as 'racist'. It's a complete load of tosh by people who have little or no life experience of what they are commenting on!
NomduJour said:
“England is perhaps the only great country whose intellectuals ?are ashamed of their own nationality. In left-wing circles it is always ?felt that there is something slightly disgraceful in being an Englishman ?and that it is a duty to snigger at every English institution, from horse ?racing to suet puddings. It is a strange fact, but it is unquestionably ?true that almost any English intellectual would feel more ashamed of ?standing to attention during ‘God save the King’ than of stealing from a ?poor box. All through the critical years many left-wingers were chipping ?away at English morale, trying to spread an outlook that was sometimes ?squashily pacifist, sometimes violently pro-Russian, but always ?anti-British.”
The more things change…
And yet when he wrote that the Nazis were bombing the sThe more things change…
t out of the ordinary folk. And we were never more United apparently.Will post my thoughts in a short while but have just spent an evening watching ‘kaleb’s world tour’ which took a young farmer from the bright lights of chipping Norton to Northampton. The world tour is progressing well.
An incredibly upbeat tonic to the miserable nonsense some of the people on this thread have been posting.
Never mistake your perspective for everyone’s. There are plenty of people who have a more optimistic view of this country and probably are a damn sight closer to what it means to be British than some on here. Just because you don’t see value in ‘it’ or cannot even identify with it or even identify it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
Some might do with reading Roger Scrutton for a considered view.
Oakey said:
Pretty sure she was killed because they just wanted to kill someone. She wasn't their first choice?
It isn't clear cut but this article starts:"Brianna Ghey was killed because she was trans, a judge ruled today, as she sentenced the two 16-year-old serial killer obsessives who murdered her to life in prison."
Further down it says:
"The judge concluded that while Jenkinson was motivated by her 'deep desire' to kill, Ratcliffe was 'motivated in part by hostility towards Brianna because she was transgender'."
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13037925/...
Apologies for linking to the DM.
NomduJour said:
“England is perhaps the only great country whose intellectuals ?are ashamed of their own nationality. In left-wing circles it is always ?felt that there is something slightly disgraceful in being an Englishman ?and that it is a duty to snigger at every English institution, from horse ?racing to suet puddings. It is a strange fact, but it is unquestionably ?true that almost any English intellectual would feel more ashamed of ?standing to attention during ‘God save the King’ than of stealing from a ?poor box. All through the critical years many left-wingers were chipping ?away at English morale, trying to spread an outlook that was sometimes ?squashily pacifist, sometimes violently pro-Russian, but always ?anti-British.”
The more things change…
Simplifying things down to "left wing" and "right wing" and picking your side is definitely a big thing in Britain.The more things change…
AlexC1981 said:
Kermit power said:
Identify them, yes. Identify with them?
The changing of the guard? I know what it is but I've never actually seen it, and it's hardly something that can be diluted by immigration, is it?
FA Cup Final day??? Surely most countries on the face of the planet have a football competition? I've never watched any of them (including the FA Cup), so I'd have no way of knowing if there's anything particularly British about it.
The British pub? Agreed, that is particularly British.
An English breakfast. Maybe, but how often does anyone actually have one? It would be interesting to know which is the more popular breakfast here... the English Breakfast American Corn Flakes or French croissants?
Red telephone boxes may well be iconic, and I suppose they actually have been wiped out by immigrants! Finnish Nokias, Swedish Ericssons, Korean Samsungs, American Apples...
Black cabs - in some ways this one actually underlines my point! We think of it as a universal British icon, but how many do you actually see outside big cities? Add urban vs rural to working class vs middle class.
Well yes, everyone's experience is different, so really we can only generalise.The changing of the guard? I know what it is but I've never actually seen it, and it's hardly something that can be diluted by immigration, is it?
FA Cup Final day??? Surely most countries on the face of the planet have a football competition? I've never watched any of them (including the FA Cup), so I'd have no way of knowing if there's anything particularly British about it.
The British pub? Agreed, that is particularly British.
An English breakfast. Maybe, but how often does anyone actually have one? It would be interesting to know which is the more popular breakfast here... the English Breakfast American Corn Flakes or French croissants?
Red telephone boxes may well be iconic, and I suppose they actually have been wiped out by immigrants! Finnish Nokias, Swedish Ericssons, Korean Samsungs, American Apples...
Black cabs - in some ways this one actually underlines my point! We think of it as a universal British icon, but how many do you actually see outside big cities? Add urban vs rural to working class vs middle class.
Randy Winkman said:
NomduJour said:
“England is perhaps the only great country whose intellectuals ?are ashamed of their own nationality. In left-wing circles it is always ?felt that there is something slightly disgraceful in being an Englishman ?and that it is a duty to snigger at every English institution, from horse ?racing to suet puddings. It is a strange fact, but it is unquestionably ?true that almost any English intellectual would feel more ashamed of ?standing to attention during ‘God save the King’ than of stealing from a ?poor box. All through the critical years many left-wingers were chipping ?away at English morale, trying to spread an outlook that was sometimes ?squashily pacifist, sometimes violently pro-Russian, but always ?anti-British.”
The more things change…
Simplifying things down to "left wing" and "right wing" and picking your side is definitely a big thing in Britain.The more things change…
Ashfordian said:
Kermit power said:
Identify them, yes. Identify with them?
The changing of the guard? I know what it is but I've never actually seen it, and it's hardly something that can be diluted by immigration, is it?
FA Cup Final day??? Surely most countries on the face of the planet have a football competition? I've never watched any of them (including the FA Cup), so I'd have no way of knowing if there's anything particularly British about it.
The British pub? Agreed, that is particularly British.
An English breakfast. Maybe, but how often does anyone actually have one? It would be interesting to know which is the more popular breakfast here... the English Breakfast American Corn Flakes or French croissants?
Red telephone boxes may well be iconic, and I suppose they actually have been wiped out by immigrants! Finnish Nokias, Swedish Ericssons, Korean Samsungs, American Apples...
Black cabs - in some ways this one actually underlines my point! We think of it as a universal British icon, but how many do you actually see outside big cities? Add urban vs rural to working class vs middle class.
You said the below in your OP:The changing of the guard? I know what it is but I've never actually seen it, and it's hardly something that can be diluted by immigration, is it?
FA Cup Final day??? Surely most countries on the face of the planet have a football competition? I've never watched any of them (including the FA Cup), so I'd have no way of knowing if there's anything particularly British about it.
The British pub? Agreed, that is particularly British.
An English breakfast. Maybe, but how often does anyone actually have one? It would be interesting to know which is the more popular breakfast here... the English Breakfast American Corn Flakes or French croissants?
Red telephone boxes may well be iconic, and I suppose they actually have been wiped out by immigrants! Finnish Nokias, Swedish Ericssons, Korean Samsungs, American Apples...
Black cabs - in some ways this one actually underlines my point! We think of it as a universal British icon, but how many do you actually see outside big cities? Add urban vs rural to working class vs middle class.
OP snippet said:
I can find huge amounts in common with people "like me" - similarly educated, similarly travelled, and so forth - regardless of whether they are British or from another country, but stick me next to someone who grew up on an inner city estate, left school at 16 and works in an unskilled job and what common frames of reference do we have? If we all suddenly had universal translators, though, I'd be that the inner city Brit would find plenty of common ground with people from a similar socioeconomic background in countries all across the globe.
Your response tells me you are the outlier. I deliberately chose the ones I listed and you have not failed to deliver with your ignorant responses.Just because you don't identify with them, does not make them part of what makes up British Culture.
I think you are simply trying, and failing to belittle those who have different experiences to immigration to you. If you walked a mile in their shoes you would do a lot of soul searching and growing up.
Your position has similarities to the nuggets who want to label the British Countryside as 'racist'. It's a complete load of tosh by people who have little or no life experience of what they are commenting on!
I notice you've not actually managed to actually address any of the points I've made, but never mind, eh!
It probably says more about you than it does me that whilst I have less than f
k all interest in football, even I know that you'd have to be a right loon to suggest the FA Cup final day - something which by definition contains no Scots or Northern Irish teams - as a defining example of British culture!!! 
Not only a football match at Wembley but also that icon of London, the black cab (but how could you forget the Routemaster???) and a military ceremony at a Palace in, err, London! You do realise that quite a bit of Britain isn't actually inside the M25, don't you???
As for my supposedly trying to belittle people with differing experiences of immigration, how are any of the things you've mentioned even remotely threatened by any immigrants?
Some have already been mentioned
Sunday Roast.
9 to 5 working practice.
Jealousy of others' success.
Resentment of the old with money by the young without a clue.
Laziness.
Tattoos.
Football everywhere.
Fighting.
Pubs (but not for long).
Hatred of Britain by the left.
Seaside holidays in rubbish resorts.
Butlins.
Body piercings.
English music and the vast live scene.
I could go on for hours... .
Sunday Roast.
9 to 5 working practice.
Jealousy of others' success.
Resentment of the old with money by the young without a clue.
Laziness.
Tattoos.
Football everywhere.
Fighting.
Pubs (but not for long).
Hatred of Britain by the left.
Seaside holidays in rubbish resorts.
Butlins.
Body piercings.
English music and the vast live scene.
I could go on for hours... .
NomduJour said:
“England is perhaps the only great country whose intellectuals ?are ashamed of their own nationality. In left-wing circles it is always ?felt that there is something slightly disgraceful in being an Englishman ?and that it is a duty to snigger at every English institution, from horse ?racing to suet puddings. It is a strange fact, but it is unquestionably ?true that almost any English intellectual would feel more ashamed of ?standing to attention during ‘God save the King’ than of stealing from a ?poor box. All through the critical years many left-wingers were chipping ?away at English morale, trying to spread an outlook that was sometimes ?squashily pacifist, sometimes violently pro-Russian, but always ?anti-British.”
The more things change…
I don't know who wrote that when, but the suet pudding is an interesting one. I'm not sure I've actually seen one in 30 years, which I guess suggests that British culture isn't exactly preserved in aspic.The more things change…
Horse Racing though? I'd imagine a lot of people in Newmarket would share quite a bit of common ground with people in Chantilly, Kentucky and Ireland that they wouldn't share with anyone else in Britain, so it's hardly unique to here, is it? It was a surprise to find out that Japan is actually the largest horseracing country in the world!
Kermit power said:
NomduJour said:
“England is perhaps the only great country whose intellectuals ?are ashamed of their own nationality. In left-wing circles it is always ?felt that there is something slightly disgraceful in being an Englishman ?and that it is a duty to snigger at every English institution, from horse ?racing to suet puddings. It is a strange fact, but it is unquestionably ?true that almost any English intellectual would feel more ashamed of ?standing to attention during ‘God save the King’ than of stealing from a ?poor box. All through the critical years many left-wingers were chipping ?away at English morale, trying to spread an outlook that was sometimes ?squashily pacifist, sometimes violently pro-Russian, but always ?anti-British.”
The more things change…
I don't know who wrote that when, but the suet pudding is an interesting one. I'm not sure I've actually seen one in 30 years, which I guess suggests that British culture isn't exactly preserved in aspic.The more things change…
Horse Racing though? I'd imagine a lot of people in Newmarket would share quite a bit of common ground with people in Chantilly, Kentucky and Ireland that they wouldn't share with anyone else in Britain, so it's hardly unique to here, is it? It was a surprise to find out that Japan is actually the largest horseracing country in the world!
Ridgemont said:
And yet when he wrote that the Nazis were bombing the st out of the ordinary folk. And we were never more United apparently.
Will post my thoughts in a short while but have just spent an evening watching ‘kaleb’s world tour’ which took a young farmer from the bright lights of chipping Norton to Northampton. The world tour is progressing well.
An incredibly upbeat tonic to the miserable nonsense some of the people on this thread have been posting.
Never mistake your perspective for everyone’s. There are plenty of people who have a more optimistic view of this country and probably are a damn sight closer to what it means to be British than some on here. Just because you don’t see value in ‘it’ or cannot even identify with it or even identify it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
Some might do with reading Roger Scrutton for a considered view.
Another perfect example, thanks!t out of the ordinary folk. And we were never more United apparently.Will post my thoughts in a short while but have just spent an evening watching ‘kaleb’s world tour’ which took a young farmer from the bright lights of chipping Norton to Northampton. The world tour is progressing well.
An incredibly upbeat tonic to the miserable nonsense some of the people on this thread have been posting.
Never mistake your perspective for everyone’s. There are plenty of people who have a more optimistic view of this country and probably are a damn sight closer to what it means to be British than some on here. Just because you don’t see value in ‘it’ or cannot even identify with it or even identify it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
Some might do with reading Roger Scrutton for a considered view.
Let's take, say, Kaleb, Stormzy, subpostmaster Alan Bates and Toby Jones, the actor who played him in the TV series.
All born British but can you imagine four people with much more different experiences of life? How can anyone ever even begin to try and define a British culture which gives them more in common with each other than with people from different countries who share similar backgrounds? None of their lives are any more or less valid than the others, but they are incredibly different.
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