Can Sir Keir Starmer revive the Labour Party? (Vol. 2)

[Gecko1978]

Wombat3 said:

Mr Penguin said:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/quarter-of-pare...

VAT on schools policy will have the obvious effect.

I'm not sure which is worse, the green eyed monster logic behind the policy or the ineptitude of not being able to join the obvious dots and see the obvious impacts.

It does not bode well.

I like the idea of Labour policy causing class sizes to rise raise no more money to fund them and at the same time handing back 30k to certain families....

[xstian]

Mr Penguin said:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/quarter-of-pare...

VAT on schools policy will have the obvious effect.

I didn't know project fear was still going.

[crankedup5]

Mr Penguin said:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/quarter-of-pare...

VAT on schools policy will have the obvious effect.

Same old Labour, they just can’t help themselves when it comes down to penalising those striving for the benefit of daughters and sons.

[Rufus Stone]

crankedup5 said:

Same old Labour, they just can’t help themselves when it comes down to penalising those striving for the benefit of daughters and sons.

They will just have to strive a little harder I guess.

[chrispmartha]

crankedup5 said:

Mr Penguin said:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/quarter-of-pare...

VAT on schools policy will have the obvious effect.

Same old Labour, they just can’t help themselves when it comes down to penalising those striving for the benefit of daughters and sons.

As opposed to the current tory government who just like to ounch down and demonise those less fortunate.

[Gecko1978]

Rufus Stone said:

crankedup5 said:

Same old Labour, they just can’t help themselves when it comes down to penalising those striving for the benefit of daughters and sons.

They will just have to strive a little harder I guess.

Or they could do less ab pocket the saving and have the state pick up the tab for their kids education

[Rufus Stone]

Gecko1978 said:

Or they could do less ab pocket the saving and have the state pick up the tab for their kids education

They could have done that in the first place, but chose not to.

[chrispmartha]

Rufus Stone said:

crankedup5 said:

Same old Labour, they just can’t help themselves when it comes down to penalising those striving for the benefit of daughters and sons.

They will just have to strive a little harder I guess.

Yes maybe cancel that Netflix subscription, sell the iphone and ‘flat screen’ TV.

That’s the is usual solution offered isn’t it?

[Rufus Stone]

chrispmartha said:

Yes maybe cancel that Netflix subscription, sell the iphone and ‘flat screen’ TV.

That’s the is usual solution offered isn’t it?

Probably the skiing holiday on this occasion.

[Wombat3]

Rufus Stone said:

Gecko1978 said:

Or they could do less ab pocket the saving and have the state pick up the tab for their kids education

They could have done that in the first place, but chose not to.

Just as well for the state school kids who don't have to divide the available resources quite so far...

[Wombat3]

Rufus Stone said:

chrispmartha said:

Yes maybe cancel that Netflix subscription, sell the iphone and ‘flat screen’ TV.

That’s the is usual solution offered isn’t it?

Probably the skiing holiday on this occasion.

The ones that do that will still do that. The ones that cut everything back to afford the fees will be on the phone to the LEA looking for places.

All it will do is make private education even more elitist.

Will probably do wonders for the private tutor business though because those that come out of private schools will have the resources to pay for some of that to still give their kids an advantage.

[chemistry]

Wombat3 said:

I'm not sure which is worse, the green eyed monster logic behind the policy or the ineptitude of not being able to join the obvious dots and see the obvious impacts.

It does not bode well.

They can see it. They just don't care. As long as 'the rich' are punished, that's all they want.

[bitchstewie]

chrispmartha said:

As opposed to the current tory government who just like to ounch down and demonise those less fortunate.

It's an odd one isn't it?

Part of me does think it's just a bit of "red meat" to appeal to more traditional Labour voters.

But if you asked me to make a list of all the groups in society that I'm going to feel sorry for I'm afraid people sending their kids to private school who are now going to have to pay a little more to do so are some way down that list.

I wouldn't mind if half the people making a fuss about this seemed so bothered when Rashford was trying to make sure kids got fed during a pandemic.

Priorities eh.

[chemistry]

chrispmartha said:

Yes maybe cancel that Netflix subscription, sell the iphone and ‘flat screen’ TV.

That’s the is usual solution offered isn’t it?

I think an element of this will happen; folks will cut back elsewhere; keep the kids in private school and change the car less often, forego a week's holiday in Cornwall, etc. As a result, the VAT take will be even lower...if a family has a post-tax income of (say) £60k and are currently spending £20k of that on school fees, if those fees rise to £24k I strongly suspect they will cut back £4k elsewhere...so the overall increase in the VAT take will be zero.

[NomduJour]

bhstewie said:

I wouldn't mind if half the people making a fuss about this seemed so bothered when Rashford was trying to make sure kids got fed during a pandemic.

Priorities eh

If taxes were higher to enable the government to spend more cash on this stuff, would Rashford still make efforts to avoid them?

[768]

bhstewie said:

It's an odd one isn't it?

Part of me does think it's just a bit of "red meat" to appeal to more traditional Labour voters.

But if you asked me to make a list of all the groups in society that I'm going to feel sorry for I'm afraid people sending their kids to private school who are now going to have to pay a little more to do so are some way down that list.

I wouldn't mind if half the people making a fuss about this seemed so bothered when Rashford was trying to make sure kids got fed during a pandemic.

Priorities eh.

It's not about priorities. Labour supporters want to raise taxes on the "rich" even when the tax take is reduced. That's kids in state schools who are going to suffer. It seems like you too are not bothered about state school kids as long as some (the least rich) private school kids suffer.

The article said:

Five separate surveys have now found exactly the same thing: that VAT would cause parents to leave the independent school sector in numbers that would result in a net cost to the taxpayer

[bitchstewie]

Like I said I assume it's a bit of red meat for their more traditional supporters.

Personally I wouldn't care if they didn't do it but I won't lose sleep if they do.

[redrabbit]

bhstewie said:

chrispmartha said:

As opposed to the current tory government who just like to ounch down and demonise those less fortunate.

It's an odd one isn't it?

Part of me does think it's just a bit of "red meat" to appeal to more traditional Labour voters.

But if you asked me to make a list of all the groups in society that I'm going to feel sorry for I'm afraid people sending their kids to private school who are now going to have to pay a little more to do so are some way down that list.

I wouldn't mind if half the people making a fuss about this seemed so bothered when Rashford was trying to make sure kids got fed during a pandemic.

Priorities eh.

As someone with two kids in private education, I can offer no defence as to why the fees should be VAT exempt. Like many (most?) others, it's obvious that the school does nothing meaningful / the bare minimum to justify charitable status, so by any objective measure there is no logical reason that VAT isn't applicable. I may not like it, and if it happens I'll have difficult decisions to make, but I'm not obtuse enough to think that introducing VAT would be the 'politics of envy'. I'm quite clear that I'm buying my kids an advantage, and equally clear I'm not doing anyone a favour by having my kids outside the state sector. If push comes to shove I'll just have to decide if that advantage is sufficient to justify the increased expense. End of.

[Rufus Stone]

768 said:

The article said:

Five separate surveys have now found exactly the same thing: that VAT would cause parents to leave the independent school sector in numbers that would result in a net cost to the taxpayer

Turkeys and Christmas.

[Wombat3]

bhstewie said:

chrispmartha said:

As opposed to the current tory government who just like to ounch down and demonise those less fortunate.

It's an odd one isn't it?

Part of me does think it's just a bit of "red meat" to appeal to more traditional Labour voters.

But if you asked me to make a list of all the groups in society that I'm going to feel sorry for I'm afraid people sending their kids to private school who are now going to have to pay a little more to do so are some way down that list.

Priorities eh.

If that's what you think the only impact will be, but it won't be just that,

The whole point is that the impact will be equally as great, if not greater on the whole state system as its put under even more load with no significant increase in resources.- to the obvious detriment of all those already in it

If you were designing an education system from scratch obviously you wouldn't start from here, but we are where we are so if you want to change it then there better be a very good plan not to make it worse in the process before you even think about touching it.