Russia Invades Ukraine. Volume 5
Discussion
thiscocks said:
I think we can agree that Ukraine isn't getting the territories it has lost to Russia back so it seems pointless them continuing loosing men. Fair enough if you think he's brave. I don't have sudden beef with him - I've just thought he has been a manipulated puppet / cash launderer since he was president. Admittedly he hasn't had a choice to do anything other than what the US has told him since he became president.
Source?airbusA346 said:
thiscocks said:
I think we can agree that Ukraine isn't getting the territories it has lost to Russia back so it seems pointless them continuing loosing men. Fair enough if you think he's brave. I don't have sudden beef with him - I've just thought he has been a manipulated puppet / cash launderer since he was president. Admittedly he hasn't had a choice to do anything other than what the US has told him since he became president.
Source?https://www.reuters.com/world/us-long-range-bombs-...
I did read boeing wasn't very happy at how quickly the Russians jammed the glsdb. Appears they've made some modifications.
I did read boeing wasn't very happy at how quickly the Russians jammed the glsdb. Appears they've made some modifications.
greygoose said:
thiscocks said:
greygoose said:
Sadly PH allows pro-Russian 
s like thiscocks to post rather than banning them.
Sadly people like you think people with different opinions to themselves should be silenced or banned.s like thiscocks to post rather than banning them.I actually feel sorry for you.
I'm simply stating opinion and fact that doesn't align with the 99% of opinion in this thread. If you don't believe what I posted about Russia not being interested in a ceasefire unless the Istanbul agreements were recognised then that's up to you.
Russia also won't agree to a ceasefire unless large military concessions on the Ukraine side are met - This aligns with why they invaded in the first place -to demilitarise the afu.
Basically Russia hold all the cards (how Trump would say) unless anyone fancies a nuclear war. Russia, unfortunately for NATO, isn't Libya.
The Ukrainians in the field aren't dying because of land they have already lost. They are dying because they are defending land that Russia wants to capture. Should they just leave their trenches and retreat, or continue to defend?
What would you advise, thiscocks et al?
If the answer is retreat, how far should they retreat?
What would you advise, thiscocks et al?
If the answer is retreat, how far should they retreat?
airbusA346 said:
'Just a shell': How Russian gas giant's exports were decimated by sanctions
Earlier this evening, Volodymyr Zelenskyy called on allies to increase the pressure on Vladimir Putin and impose further sanctions.
If you have been wondering about the effect of European sanctions on the Russian economy, then the current condition of Gazprom is a useful marker.
The Russian gas giant's European markets have almost disappeared since Putin decided to invade Ukraine in February 2022.
At Gazprom Export - housed in a lavish Italian palazzo-styled building in central St Petersburg - only a few dozen staff remain, down from 600 five years ago.
When the building was opened, just over a decade ago, Gazprom CEO Alexei Miller said it was "symbolic" and that Europe would "increasingly need Russian gas".
Now, it may be sold along with other luxury properties.
The state gas company's export arm is "just a shell", a source told Reuters.
In addition, Miller is reportedly planning to cut 1,500 jobs at the parent company's headquarters at Europe's tallest skyscraper, the British-designed Lakhta Centre, also in St Petersburg.
A dramatic decline
Staff have apparently been asked to prepare individual presentations about why they should keep their jobs - echoing Elon Musk's request to public sector workers in the United States.
It is thought that up to 40% of those at Gazprom's HQ could be made redundant.
The firm's figures illustrate why such deep cuts are necessary. Last year, Gazprom posted a net loss of $7bn (£5.4bn) for 2023.
That was its first loss since 1999, the year Putin came to power.
In the first nine months of 2024, it posted another deficit.
In December, its share price fell to its lowest since January 2009, touching 106.1 roubles. That's a decline of more than a third since the start of 2024.
No route back?
What's more, its European markets appear unlikely to reopen.
The European Union intends to end its use of Russian fossil fuels by 2027.
US gas exporters replaced Russian supplies in Europe, becoming the biggest exporter of Liquified Natural Gas to the continent, with American supplies tripling since 2021.
While Vladimir Putin has indicated he would like to replace European markets with exports to China, the gap is unlikely to be filled.
Even the most ambitious projects under consideration would not reach half the peak exports of 180 billion cubic metres achieved previously.
Gazprom management misjudged how determined European countries would be, an executive said.
The thinking inside the company was that Europe would soon be "begging" for Russian gas supplies to resume.
"We proved to be wrong," the executive commented.
Reuters spoke to three executives and half a dozen former and current Gazprom employees.
Sky News:https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-trump-zelen...
Investment opportunities for Trump and his buddiesEarlier this evening, Volodymyr Zelenskyy called on allies to increase the pressure on Vladimir Putin and impose further sanctions.
If you have been wondering about the effect of European sanctions on the Russian economy, then the current condition of Gazprom is a useful marker.
The Russian gas giant's European markets have almost disappeared since Putin decided to invade Ukraine in February 2022.
At Gazprom Export - housed in a lavish Italian palazzo-styled building in central St Petersburg - only a few dozen staff remain, down from 600 five years ago.
When the building was opened, just over a decade ago, Gazprom CEO Alexei Miller said it was "symbolic" and that Europe would "increasingly need Russian gas".
Now, it may be sold along with other luxury properties.
The state gas company's export arm is "just a shell", a source told Reuters.
In addition, Miller is reportedly planning to cut 1,500 jobs at the parent company's headquarters at Europe's tallest skyscraper, the British-designed Lakhta Centre, also in St Petersburg.
A dramatic decline
Staff have apparently been asked to prepare individual presentations about why they should keep their jobs - echoing Elon Musk's request to public sector workers in the United States.
It is thought that up to 40% of those at Gazprom's HQ could be made redundant.
The firm's figures illustrate why such deep cuts are necessary. Last year, Gazprom posted a net loss of $7bn (£5.4bn) for 2023.
That was its first loss since 1999, the year Putin came to power.
In the first nine months of 2024, it posted another deficit.
In December, its share price fell to its lowest since January 2009, touching 106.1 roubles. That's a decline of more than a third since the start of 2024.
No route back?
What's more, its European markets appear unlikely to reopen.
The European Union intends to end its use of Russian fossil fuels by 2027.
US gas exporters replaced Russian supplies in Europe, becoming the biggest exporter of Liquified Natural Gas to the continent, with American supplies tripling since 2021.
While Vladimir Putin has indicated he would like to replace European markets with exports to China, the gap is unlikely to be filled.
Even the most ambitious projects under consideration would not reach half the peak exports of 180 billion cubic metres achieved previously.
Gazprom management misjudged how determined European countries would be, an executive said.
The thinking inside the company was that Europe would soon be "begging" for Russian gas supplies to resume.
"We proved to be wrong," the executive commented.
Reuters spoke to three executives and half a dozen former and current Gazprom employees.
Sky News:https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-trump-zelen...
pingu393 said:
The Ukrainians in the field aren't dying because of land they have already lost. They are dying because they are defending land that Russia wants to capture. Should they just leave their trenches and retreat, or continue to defend?
What would you advise, thiscocks et al?
If the answer is retreat, how far should they retreat?
They could start by probably getting out of Kursk for a start, then I imagine the river will be a natural border so I think retreating to the Ukrainian side will be fine where that’s applicable.What would you advise, thiscocks et al?
If the answer is retreat, how far should they retreat?
Not ideal, none of it is, but people need to be real about this war. Ukraine have no chance of “winning” be it Russian collapsing (not happening, especially with all that EU energy money still flowing) or by retaking parts that Russia have taken and in some cases occupied for 3 years now. The Russians won’t be going anywhere.
It’s really easy to grandstand and virtue signal about how terrible Putin is and how he should be kicked out the country etc but it’s just not going to happen realistically. Stop the war now, Putin gets his concessions around NATO and his little bit of land and Ukraine gets to exist as a country again.
Hopefully the Minsk 3 agreement (or whatever it’s called) won’t be used as an excuse for the EU/USA to flood the country with weapons like last time around.
Edited by thatsprettyshady on Friday 14th March 01:04
MOTORVATOR said:
The fact that Ukraine are in Kursk at all evidences that they have every possibility of taking land back from Russia.
As for EuUsa arming them perhaps if we hadn’t insisted on demilitarising them in the first place the invasion would never have happened to start with?
And if Russia had honoured the agreement they signed up to when the demilitarising took place, this conflict wouldn't have happened.As for EuUsa arming them perhaps if we hadn’t insisted on demilitarising them in the first place the invasion would never have happened to start with?
Any written agreement today will not be worth the paper it is written on while Putin or a like minded replacement hold the seat of power.
Trump and his fools are being played like a cheap violin
thatsprettyshady said:
They could start by probably getting out of Kursk for a start, then I imagine the river will be a natural border so I think retreating to the Ukrainian side will be fine where that’s applicable.
Not ideal, none of it is, but people need to be real about this war. Ukraine have no chance of “winning” be it Russian collapsing (not happening, especially with all that EU energy money still flowing) or by retaking parts that Russia have taken and in some cases occupied for 3 years now. The Russians won’t be going anywhere.
It’s really easy to grandstand and virtue signal about how terrible Putin is and how he should be kicked out the country etc but it’s just not going to happen realistically. Stop the war now, Putin gets his concessions around NATO and his little bit of land and Ukraine gets to exist as a country again.
Hopefully the Minsk 3 agreement (or whatever it’s called) won’t be used as an excuse for the EU/USA to flood the country with weapons like last time around.
This should happen 100%, because Russia will 100000% have another go in a few years. Putin does not stick to any agreements he signs. 190 previous agreements violated show this time will be no different.Not ideal, none of it is, but people need to be real about this war. Ukraine have no chance of “winning” be it Russian collapsing (not happening, especially with all that EU energy money still flowing) or by retaking parts that Russia have taken and in some cases occupied for 3 years now. The Russians won’t be going anywhere.
It’s really easy to grandstand and virtue signal about how terrible Putin is and how he should be kicked out the country etc but it’s just not going to happen realistically. Stop the war now, Putin gets his concessions around NATO and his little bit of land and Ukraine gets to exist as a country again.
Hopefully the Minsk 3 agreement (or whatever it’s called) won’t be used as an excuse for the EU/USA to flood the country with weapons like last time around.
Edited by thatsprettyshady on Friday 14th March 01:04
suthol said:
And if Russia had honoured the agreement they signed up to when the demilitarising took place, this conflict wouldn't have happened.
Any written agreement today will not be worth the paper it is written on while Putin or a like minded replacement hold the seat of power.
Trump and his fools are being played like a cheap violin
And they are too stupid/naive to realise and won't take any notice of people trying to tell them.Any written agreement today will not be worth the paper it is written on while Putin or a like minded replacement hold the seat of power.
Trump and his fools are being played like a cheap violin
Edited by airbusA346 on Friday 14th March 02:24
TEKNOPUG said:
thatsprettyshady said:
I think that he wants Russia to fk off out of his country?Aggression can't be rewarded. Simple.
All this crap about Russia being against NATO expansion is just that crap.
thiscocks said:
W12GT said:
thiscocks said:
swisstoni said:
thatsprettyshady said:
At least he’s agreed to a ceasefire. Unlike some.A temporary ceasefire where no US involvement is pulled is obviously not useful in the slightest for Russia.
The US and the rest of NATO know that the Istanbul agreements are the only thing that will induce a ceasefire on both sides. Just the suggestion of ceasefire from one side with no facilitation of long term peace achieves nothing - other than for Zelensky to parrot more pathetic rhetoric to the western press.
airbusA346 said:
thiscocks said:
I think we can agree that Ukraine isn't getting the territories it has lost to Russia back so it seems pointless them continuing loosing men. Fair enough if you think he's brave. I don't have sudden beef with him - I've just thought he has been a manipulated puppet / cash launderer since he was president. Admittedly he hasn't had a choice to do anything other than what the US has told him since he became president.
Source?barryrs said:
Just out of interest what is the sudden beef with ZL?
Personally I think he is largely responsible for Russias 3 day failure and is braver than any other current leader so I have nothing but respect.
I don’t see why Ukraine should concede anything unless they choose to and those bleating “stop the killing” appear to whitewash the horrors inflicted upon them.
I think its a Russian led, and USA (or at least Trump) supported campign to discredit Zelenskyy, destabilise Ukraine, ultimate aim to remove him from power and have a more compliant leader installed.Personally I think he is largely responsible for Russias 3 day failure and is braver than any other current leader so I have nothing but respect.
I don’t see why Ukraine should concede anything unless they choose to and those bleating “stop the killing” appear to whitewash the horrors inflicted upon them.
airbusA346 said:
That is going to do absolutely fk all in the context of concentrating Putin’s mind. Article I read in The Times this morning basically says th only options open that have a serious impact revolve around the Oil market, going after Putin’s “shadow fleet” but that is inflationary which right now is not something Trump will want to do.What happens if Putin rejects ceasefire? Trump’s options are limited
https://www.thetimes.com/article/1d42b931-16b1-451...
There was talk a few weeks ago of Trump doing a deal with the Saudi’s to increase oil production. That would hurt Putin big time and also be good for “gas prices” in the US. I’d imagine that will be very hard to pull off though.
prand said:
I think its a Russian led, and USA (or at least Trump) supported campign to discredit Zelenskyy, destabilise Ukraine, ultimate aim to remove him from power and have a more compliant leader installed.
Spot on.Hoping the Europeans ,I include us in that,are ready or are doing it now to supply more stuff to UKR
thiscocks said:
I think we can agree that Ukraine isn't getting the territories it has lost to Russia back so it seems pointless them continuing loosing men. Fair enough if you think he's brave. I don't have sudden beef with him - I've just thought he has been a manipulated puppet / cash launderer since he was president. Admittedly he hasn't had a choice to do anything other than what the US has told him since he became president.
The US offered him an escape and he said No. So he hasn't been doing what the US told him.You've been saying Ukriane didn't want peace for years. Now they've agreed to a peace (that's likely to be very for them) it turns out you were wrong all along and Russia don't want peace. (The clue was always there becaise they started the bloody war!)
I apologise to other forumites for feeding the Troll/Tankie/Vatnik.
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