Sir Keir Starmer Prime Minister

[Mojooo]

Leave Sir Kier alone - he is doing a good job.

Who would have thought it would have been Labour that would have provided strong and STABLE leadership.

[popeyewhite]

Mojooo said:

Leave Sir Kier alone - he is doing a good job.

Who would have thought it would have been Labour that would have provided strong and STABLE leadership.

Bog brush features is punching way above his weight at the moment on the world stage. When reality kicks in and the general public realise he'll have to revert to Tory policies to meet his budget ambitions the game will be up.

[abzmike]

popeyewhite said:

swisstoni said:

Randy Winkman said:

scenario8 said:

I’ve been saying since at least my time (formally) studying politics, which is a not inconsiderable time now, that only the Labour Party could ever make significant reforms to the NHS, the education sector and/or the civil service. The Conservative Party might (secretly) want to but would find anything other than relatively minor changes impossible for a whole bunch of reasons.

Cool story bro’.

I've been a civil servant for nearly 41 years and remain to be convinced. I dont see how it matters whether it's Labour, Conservative, Lib Dem or anyone else? How does that matter?

If a Tory PM had announced this it would have been parlayed up into a typical attack on the NHS and no doubt the unions would already be talking about industrial action, etc, etc.

Of course it would. The volte face and sheer cheek of Labour to suggest this now they are in power after years of Tory attacks in opposition where stuff like this was their main ammunition shows what a bunch of integrity voids they are. Completely shameless.

So what should they have done?

[Jockman]

abzmike said:

So what should they have done?

That’s easy. Increase income tax.

[DSLiverpool]

SKS is just making stuff up now for sts abd giggles.

[anonymoususer]

Ridgemont said:

Any colour you like as long as it’s brown. Or in its last desperate days when it tried to persuade government it was flexible, you could have it in black and white as well.

Nonsense.

Rubbish
Ivory was standard as in COLOUR not made out of elephants
Other colours available were
Red
A sort of 2 tone green
Black
A sort of 2 tone grey
Brown wasn't actually available until around 1979 (ish) and it actually had a slightly difference model number

And that was on the 746 model
Going back to the 706
You could have Red/Black/ Ivory and some others
Your parents could have chosen to pay extra for either a dial or push button trimphone
We had black then we had Ivory. Our neighbours (who thought themselves more modern had a red one)
Thank you

[blueg33]

swisstoni said:

Randy Winkman said:

scenario8 said:

I’ve been saying since at least my time (formally) studying politics, which is a not inconsiderable time now, that only the Labour Party could ever make significant reforms to the NHS, the education sector and/or the civil service. The Conservative Party might (secretly) want to but would find anything other than relatively minor changes impossible for a whole bunch of reasons.

Cool story bro’.

I've been a civil servant for nearly 41 years and remain to be convinced. I dont see how it matters whether it's Labour, Conservative, Lib Dem or anyone else? How does that matter?

If a Tory PM had announced this it would have been parlayed up into a typical attack on the NHS and no doubt the unions would already be talking about industrial action, etc, etc.

Tories did make changes. They messed about with CCG’s and cancelled the whole NHS LIFT programme. The latter meant many planned service and capacity improvements never happened.

[272BHP]

popeyewhite said:

Bog brush features is punching way above his weight at the moment on the world stage. When reality kicks in and the general public realise he'll have to revert to Tory policies to meet his budget ambitions the game will be up.

Reverting to Tory policies is probably his only chance of keeping Labour in power. The people generally want Tory policies, they were just fed up with the particular Tories that were in power at the time.

[JagLover]

272BHP said:

Reverting to Tory policies is probably his only chance of keeping Labour in power. The people generally want Tory policies, they were just fed up with the particular Tories that were in power at the time.

.....and their failure to actually implement any such policies.

[Rufus Stone]

What Tory policies?

The only one I can remember is banishing asylum seekers to Rwanda, and they failed at that having wasted millions.

[Skeptisk]

popeyewhite said:

swisstoni said:

Randy Winkman said:

scenario8 said:

I’ve been saying since at least my time (formally) studying politics, which is a not inconsiderable time now, that only the Labour Party could ever make significant reforms to the NHS, the education sector and/or the civil service. The Conservative Party might (secretly) want to but would find anything other than relatively minor changes impossible for a whole bunch of reasons.

Cool story bro’.

I've been a civil servant for nearly 41 years and remain to be convinced. I dont see how it matters whether it's Labour, Conservative, Lib Dem or anyone else? How does that matter?

If a Tory PM had announced this it would have been parlayed up into a typical attack on the NHS and no doubt the unions would already be talking about industrial action, etc, etc.

Of course it would. The volte face and sheer cheek of Labour to suggest this now they are in power after years of Tory attacks in opposition where stuff like this was their main ammunition shows what a bunch of integrity voids they are. Completely shameless.

So if the Tories did this or Farage promised it, you would be shouting from the rooftops yet when Labour do it, you can only manage snide comments? I bet Kier could rush into a burning house and save your wife/child/pet and you would still find something to fault him on! Why can’t you give credit when it is due?

[Earthdweller]

Randy Winkman said:

scenario8 said:

I’ve been saying since at least my time (formally) studying politics, which is a not inconsiderable time now, that only the Labour Party could ever make significant reforms to the NHS, the education sector and/or the civil service. The Conservative Party might (secretly) want to but would find anything other than relatively minor changes impossible for a whole bunch of reasons.

Cool story bro’.

I've been a civil servant for nearly 41 years and remain to be convinced. I dont see how it matters whether it's Labour, Conservative, Lib Dem or anyone else? How does that matter?

Indeed

NHS England will cease to exist, apparantly 9500 staff will lose their jobs

NHS England's responsibility will be devolved to local NHS groups

The big question is will the local NHS groups take on all the responsibilities and do it with their existing staff or will the 9500 above just find their job title/employer has changed and carry on exactly as before

Will we move from one body overseeing and trying to purchase equipment and services and (hopefully) getting the best price and equipment nationally to lots of small groups trying to buy and not getting the same deal and equipment/standards varying substantially

Time will tell I suppose but like RW above not convinced that

A) it will save any money
B) it will be any more efficient

[boyse7en]

BikeBikeBIke said:

skeeterm5 said:

And you are assuming that private companies won’t want to screw as much money out as possible,

I admire your belief in altruistic businesses and that they will give efficiency savings back to HMG. I am genuinely snuggling to think of a single example where that has happened, ie better service for less money. Can you think of any?

Rail - nope
Water - nope
Telecoms - nope
Prisons - nope
Power - nope
And so on.

It always ends with less service, more cost and massive benefits to shareholders. And in the worst cases the original entity loaded with debt.

Edited by skeeterm5 on Thursday 13th March 19:16

You've picked things that are monopolies, the private sector runs monopolies badly.

Healthcare isn't a monopoly.

Healthcare would be far better run by the private sector just like car manufacture, insurance, food, clothing, Pretty much anything else you can think of.

Given the way pet Insurance firms and vets have worked together to push prices of regular pet care up to ridiculous levels, i doubt that the medical insurers will be in the business of keeping prices low and efficiency high. Their primary objective is to make profit, and they will charge the maximum they can get away with.

And the collapse of NHS dental services has hardly brought about a new era of low-cost, super efficient private dental care, has it?

[andy43]

anonymoususer said:

Ridgemont said:

Any colour you like as long as it’s brown. Or in its last desperate days when it tried to persuade government it was flexible, you could have it in black and white as well.

Nonsense.

Rubbish
Ivory was standard as in COLOUR not made out of elephants
Other colours available were
Red
A sort of 2 tone green
Black
A sort of 2 tone grey
Brown wasn't actually available until around 1979 (ish) and it actually had a slightly difference model number

And that was on the 746 model
Going back to the 706
You could have Red/Black/ Ivory and some others
Your parents could have chosen to pay extra for either a dial or push button trimphone
We had black then we had Ivory. Our neighbours (who thought themselves more modern had a red one)
Thank you

An interesting insight into what is actually in your cellar

[blueg33]

272BHP said:

popeyewhite said:

Bog brush features is punching way above his weight at the moment on the world stage. When reality kicks in and the general public realise he'll have to revert to Tory policies to meet his budget ambitions the game will be up.

Reverting to Tory policies is probably his only chance of keeping Labour in power. The people generally want Tory policies, they were just fed up with the particular Tories that were in power at the time.

Err if closing NHSE was a Tory policy why didn't they do it in 16 years?

[philv]

Rufus Stone said:

What Tory policies?

The only one I can remember is banishing asylum seekers to Rwanda, and they failed at that having wasted millions.

A policy that was a Deterrent.
A policy now favoured by some eu countries.
As a deterrent its a cracking idea.
Until the woke fakers get involved.

A policy sks is looking at agsin.
Did someone say hyppocrite?

As a general rule a good policy is not to throw the economy off a cliff, Labour.

[pavarotti1980]

Earthdweller said:

Indeed

NHS England will cease to exist, apparantly 9500 staff will lose their jobs

NHS England's responsibility will be devolved to local NHS groups

The big question is will the local NHS groups take on all the responsibilities and do it with their existing staff or will the 9500 above just find their job title/employer has changed and carry on exactly as before

Will we move from one body overseeing and trying to purchase equipment and services and (hopefully) getting the best price and equipment nationally to lots of small groups trying to buy and not getting the same deal and equipment/standards varying substantially

Time will tell I suppose but like RW above not convinced that

A) it will save any money
B) it will be any more efficient

A lot of the roles within NHSE are replicated across DHSC and ICB/ICSs so things like commissioning of services. This would easily be absorbed into existing bodies as they will already be doing large parts of it, just now making their scope slightly bigger.

It will save money in terms of a reduction in organisational costs which can be fed back into acute care
It can't be any less efficient than having 2 people doing the same job at DHSC level then it being replicated at NHSE and most likely local level too.

There are a lot of good people who work for NHSE and their roles are invaluable for the wider NHS so hopefully that is recognised and not lost. Jim Mackey who is now in charge is also not daft either and comes from an extensive Trust CEO background but also originally was an accountant. He likes to implement "change at pace" and doesn't seem to accept bullst (judged on personal dealings with him) and happy to make unpopular decisions and be the one to stand in front of people and explain it all

[popeyewhite]

Skeptisk said:

popeyewhite said:

swisstoni said:

Randy Winkman said:

scenario8 said:

I’ve been saying since at least my time (formally) studying politics, which is a not inconsiderable time now, that only the Labour Party could ever make significant reforms to the NHS, the education sector and/or the civil service. The Conservative Party might (secretly) want to but would find anything other than relatively minor changes impossible for a whole bunch of reasons.

Cool story bro’.

I've been a civil servant for nearly 41 years and remain to be convinced. I dont see how it matters whether it's Labour, Conservative, Lib Dem or anyone else? How does that matter?

If a Tory PM had announced this it would have been parlayed up into a typical attack on the NHS and no doubt the unions would already be talking about industrial action, etc, etc.

Of course it would. The volte face and sheer cheek of Labour to suggest this now they are in power after years of Tory attacks in opposition where stuff like this was their main ammunition shows what a bunch of integrity voids they are. Completely shameless.

So if the Tories did this or Farage promised it, you would be shouting from the rooftops yet when Labour do it, you can only manage snide comments? I bet Kier could rush into a burning house and save your wife/child/pet and you would still find something to fault him on! Why can’t you give credit when it is due?

You miss the point entirely. I have a memory, do you? The whole UK has had to put up with this twit for years whining and howling about wicked Tory policies and getting in the way/blocking as many policies as they could - only to adopt them himself and effectively sell his political soul. How you could support a man as lacking in professional integrity is telling. This amount of double-standards might be OK to you, but it's not to me. Labour's entire raison d'etre is built upon being the opposition to the Tory party, if they adopt their political views they have no reason to exist. Other than provide fodder on here.

Amusing image as Starmer as a firefighter BTW, but I think you'd find he'd argue it wasn't actually a fire but merely a representation of the economic state of the UK under Tory administration.

[blueg33]

popeyewhite said:

You miss the point entirely. I have a memory, do you? The whole UK has had to put up with this twit for years whining and howling about wicked Tory policies and getting in the way/blocking as many policies as they could - only to adopt them himself and effectively sell his political soul. How you could support a man as lacking in professional integrity is telling. This amount of double-standards might be OK to you, but it's not to me. Labour's entire raison d'etre is built upon being the opposition to the Tory party, if they adopt their political views they have no reason to exist. Other than provide fodder on here.

Amusing image as Starmer as a firefighter BTW, but I think you'd find he'd argue it wasn't actually a fire but merely a representation of the economic state of the UK under Tory administration.

So difficult for some people to accept a PM that is actually trying to do something positive.

[turbobloke]

blueg33 said:

popeyewhite said:

You miss the point entirely. I have a memory, do you? The whole UK has had to put up with this twit for years whining and howling about wicked Tory policies and getting in the way/blocking as many policies as they could - only to adopt them himself and effectively sell his political soul. How you could support a man as lacking in professional integrity is telling. This amount of double-standards might be OK to you, but it's not to me. Labour's entire raison d'etre is built upon being the opposition to the Tory party, if they adopt their political views they have no reason to exist. Other than provide fodder on here.

Amusing image as Starmer as a firefighter BTW, but I think you'd find he'd argue it wasn't actually a fire but merely a representation of the economic state of the UK under Tory administration.

So difficult for some people to accept a PM that is actually trying to do something positive.

Trying to do something positive in this case means rushing in with ideologically based carp, and actually doing lots of negative things, things that a majority of voters say is taking the country in the wrong direction, governing for the Labour Party and its supporters not the country. That isn't funny it's failure (something at last which Starmer and Labour are good at).