Could Lucy Letby be innocent?

[eldar]

Gecko1978 said:

Truth is we don't need to know she was innocent (seems likely now), we need to know there is doubt an that does appear to be the case that poor nhs care led to some deaths an others were due to sadly babies just dying. Either way her conviction seems unsafe she should be released.

I don't believe the convictions should be overturned just yet. An appeal, absolutely yes.

[carl_w]

Apologies for DM link but... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14496239/...

[cossy400]

carl_w said:

Apologies for DM link but... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14496239/...

Just read that.

Squeaky bum time for a few

[philv]

Whet is the current status re Letby appeal/retrial or whatever is going on?

[RB Will]

philv said:

Whet is the current status re Letby appeal/retrial or whatever is going on?

As far as I know her new defence team have submitted the expert panel findings and an application to the CCRC, waiting to see what results that gets. Could be years until we hear anything.

Interesting article above.
The Mail and their Trial podcast has been quite against Letby throughout the whole thing. Can't tell from the article if this means they are investigating the consultants now off the back of the expert panel findings. Or if they are still going on the basis of Letby being guilty and deciding these charges may be levelled at the hospital management who didn't get rid of Letby sooner and supported her.

Maybe the end game is now that everyone is kicking off about Letby is to haul up everyone involved, management, consultants etc and put them through a show trial and find them innocent just to say they didn't stitch her up and get away with it.
I'll be flabbergasted if they actually end up chucking Gibbs / Jayaram and Breary in jail.
Maybe that will be the justice system doubling down. Not let Letby out but just throw everyone else in too.

[VSKeith]

RB Will said:

philv said:

Whet is the current status re Letby appeal/retrial or whatever is going on?

As far as I know her new defence team have submitted the expert panel findings and an application to the CCRC, waiting to see what results that gets. Could be years until we hear anything.

Interesting article above.
The Mail and their Trial podcast has been quite against Letby throughout the whole thing. Can't tell from the article if this means they are investigating the consultants now off the back of the expert panel findings. Or if they are still going on the basis of Letby being guilty and deciding these charges may be levelled at the hospital management who didn't get rid of Letby sooner and supported her.

Maybe the end game is now that everyone is kicking off about Letby is to haul up everyone involved, management, consultants etc and put them through a show trial and find them innocent just to say they didn't stitch her up and get away with it.
I'll be flabbergasted if they actually end up chucking Gibbs / Jayaram and Breary in jail.
Maybe that will be the justice system doubling down. Not let Letby out but just throw everyone else in too.

Also there are submissions happening soon attempting to pause the Thirlwall inquiry:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/mar/13/po...

[RB Will]

That article is a bit more informative. So looks like the police are just doubling down and looking to go after managers for not getting rid of Letby sooner.

Guess logically they couldn’t be going after the consultants on manslaughter of any sort as that would mean that they accept the expert panel findings and that Letby would have to be innocent.

[blueg33]

VSKeith said:

Also there are submissions happening soon attempting to pause the Thirlwall inquiry:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/mar/13/po...

The enquiry is based on the principle that she is guilty. It’s pointless if she isn’t as it’s terms of reference will be wrong.

[PRO5T]

Welcome to the st show…

[VSKeith]

Lucy Letby inquiry chair rejects calls to pause investigation:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/mar/19/lu...

[Gecko1978]

VSKeith said:

Lucy Letby inquiry chair rejects calls to pause investigation:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/mar/19/lu...

That seems a bad move. There is definitely doubt but crucially not new evidence just a different interpretation of existing evidence

[sugerbear]

It was a farce before, someone in government needs to step in and force a pause on the shared. I imagine that at the end of it there will be a whole heap of lesson learnt, but the main one appears to be dont keep sending babies to a failing maternity unit as someone will invariably look to blame some else for the st show.

[RB Will]

Gecko1978 said:

That seems a bad move. There is definitely doubt but crucially not new evidence just a different interpretation of existing evidence

I think it could be said there is some new evidence now. There are a number of documents come up in the inquiry that add useful info and context, statements from the people involved too like her boss saying she was advised to not support Letby even though she thought she was innocent.
Wonder if you could argue that the expert panel debunking Dewi is new evidence in itself, they haven't just said their opinion is different to his but proved his is incompatible with the truth.

[Stick Legs]

The original verdict was so neat and tidy.

The alternative narrative is messy an asks questions that no-one in power wants to have to answer.

The more time passes the more I feel that Lucy Letby is a sacrificial lamb to hide institutional issues and no-one want to revisit it.

Shameful if so.

[isaldiri]

RB Will said:

Gecko1978 said:

That seems a bad move. There is definitely doubt but crucially not new evidence just a different interpretation of existing evidence

I think it could be said there is some new evidence now. There are a number of documents come up in the inquiry that add useful info and context, statements from the people involved too like her boss saying she was advised to not support Letby even though she thought she was innocent.
Wonder if you could argue that the expert panel debunking Dewi is new evidence in itself, they haven't just said their opinion is different to his but proved his is incompatible with the truth.

Given Thirlwall had previously dismissed the various stories and investigations into likely flawed if not outright erroneous evidence as 'noise' and refused to consider anything outside of the court of appeal decision to reject an appeal, she was never going to agree to stop the inquiry regardless of the new panel's opinions...

[eldar]

Stick Legs said:

The original verdict was so neat and tidy.

The alternative narrative is messy an asks questions that no-one in power wants to have to answer.

The more time passes the more I feel that Lucy Letby is a sacrificial lamb to hide institutional issues and no-one want to revisit it.

Shameful if so.

Interesting to see which direction the police investigations into the hospital and various staff heads.

[RB Will]

eldar said:

Interesting to see which direction the police investigations into the hospital and various staff heads.

Surely they have to be going for the management that couldn’t find any wrongdoing.

Logically if they go for the consultants / Drs then it is acknowledging they are to blame and Lucy must be innocent.

Or is our system like in the US where evidence in one case doesn’t carry through to related ones?
I think it was in Making a Murderer, the guy and his nephew? Both got done for the murder but by completely different circumstances / narratives?

Could we get to the point in this whole thing where Lucy is away for murders that the Drs are also in prison for ?

[eldar]

RB Will said:

eldar said:

Interesting to see which direction the police investigations into the hospital and various staff heads.

Surely they have to be going for the management that couldn’t find any wrongdoing.

Logically if they go for the consultants / Drs then it is acknowledging they are to blame and Lucy must be innocent.

Or is our system like in the US where evidence in one case doesn’t carry through to related ones?
I think it was in Making a Murderer, the guy and his nephew? Both got done for the murder but by completely different circumstances / narratives?

Could we get to the point in this whole thing where Lucy is away for murders that the Drs are also in prison for ?

Wide ranging, apparently.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g94jzgl4eo

[glazbagun]

Possibly been posted already. BBC timeline of some emails/management discussions as babies died:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-30341313-...

[TheRainMaker]

glazbagun said:

Possibly been posted already. BBC timeline of some emails/management discussions as babies died:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-30341313-...

These are mostly from the people who were blamed by the independent panel for the actual deaths.

They must all be bricking it now, and rightly so IMO.