How much of a mess are we really in?
Discussion
smifffymoto said:
A bit more from the coal face.
My daughter is looking for a job.
She has a 2.1 in Law with business from Exeter and is looking at graduate roles.
On Indeed,Total and all the other websites the majority of roles are in recruitment or sales.
Where are the quality jobs being advertised
ALL are paying minimum wage.
She watched an interview with a recruiter,If an attractive job gets posted,the recruiter can have 400+ applications in a couple of hours. They take the first 100 applicants for interviews,everyone else hears nothing.
Whilst she accepts she can’t earn big money from the outset,she and her peers are thinking what was the point of going to University when they can earn the same money stacking shelves.
I think in we are in for a Tsunami of problems when her age group need housing and a bigger wage to support a family.
We can’t keep burying our heads in the sand and keep wages down and keep creaming in ever bigger profits.
I don’t know what the solution is but we need to find one pretty quick before Gen Z give up entirely.
Get a job in the sector she wants, not the role she wants. From there she can move internally into the role.My daughter is looking for a job.
She has a 2.1 in Law with business from Exeter and is looking at graduate roles.
On Indeed,Total and all the other websites the majority of roles are in recruitment or sales.
Where are the quality jobs being advertised
ALL are paying minimum wage.
She watched an interview with a recruiter,If an attractive job gets posted,the recruiter can have 400+ applications in a couple of hours. They take the first 100 applicants for interviews,everyone else hears nothing.
Whilst she accepts she can’t earn big money from the outset,she and her peers are thinking what was the point of going to University when they can earn the same money stacking shelves.
I think in we are in for a Tsunami of problems when her age group need housing and a bigger wage to support a family.
We can’t keep burying our heads in the sand and keep wages down and keep creaming in ever bigger profits.
I don’t know what the solution is but we need to find one pretty quick before Gen Z give up entirely.
For e.g., a job in a contact centre or admin post for a bank. From there, move internally, prove yourself, into the department and role you actually want.
borcy said:
Wills2 said:
Given the minimum wage has doubled since 2010 that not the case is it, Whereas I see jobs that paid say £70-90k plus bonus in 2010 are still being advertised at that rate today, I see that the floor has risen and the the very top has sky rocketed leaving the middle squeezed and static (going backwards in real terms).
I earn no more than I did in 2010 as an example.
That's an exact reflection on my line of work in financial services. I earn what used be classed as a high wage which 10 + years ago felt like I had some money to enjoy following the bills being paid, not any more. Like you say the floor has risen up and salary's in the middle haven't moved accordingly, only at the top have they shot up. I by no means have a lavish lifestyle. I earn no more than I did in 2010 as an example.
It certainly feels like I've gone financially backwards in the past 5 years. A few of my colleagues have upped sticks and headed to the ME as a result, quite often sending me reminders of their 0% tax! I have to admit its starting to be rather tempting.
I have no idea how people on the average wage of 35k are surviving.
Edited by Four Litre on Wednesday 12th March 14:51
Wills2 said:
borcy said:
JagLover said:
Randy Winkman said:
Perhaps property prices are the main issue in the UK then? Or people being snowflakes and jumping at the chance to moan about the tough life they lead?
Yep property prices the most significant issue, followed by a tax system that hits harder the more you earn (and takes more than it did prior to 2008). This then leads to the income point where you can live a middle class or upper middle class lifestyle rising significantly compared to previous generations. Some of the public sector militancy from the likes of Doctors comes from this imo.
Pick a salary point, say £120K, and look what standard of living it gets you now after tax (without retained assets) compared to what it bought in the late nineties (deflated by earnings inflation between the two points). If the answer is much less then hence the complaints and the brain drain.
Telling those people that they are better off than people on minimum wage, while no doubt true, does not really address the root cause of the dissatisfaction with modern Britain.
I earn no more than I did in 2010 as an example.
borcy said:
Wills2 said:
borcy said:
Wills2 said:
Given the minimum wage has doubled since 2010 that not the case is it, Whereas I see jobs that paid say £70-90k plus bonus in 2010 are still being advertised at that rate today, I see that the floor has risen and the the very top has sky rocketed leaving the middle squeezed and static (going backwards in real terms).
I earn no more than I did in 2010 as an example.
I suppose it may depend on your circumstances or whatever your industry. I can only speak for my experience and what I see. I earn no more than I did in 2010 as an example.
I was talking to a divisional sales director of a FTSE100 business yesterday he's offering the same packages for A/c managers that I was offering back in 2011 when I did his job, they had an OTE of 75k back then and still have today, that's a situation reflected across many businesses.
Let me try a different way of explaining it, the nmw has doubled in 15 years, so people earning that feel twice as wealthy since 2010?
Plus getting hammered for.. Child benefit claw back, student loans, higher and additional rate tax, reduced child care hours, tapering of personal allowance and pension contributions. Plus years of fiscal drag.
Want to buy a house in a nice area, that all be eye watering stamp duty please.
Oh and for all that we get terrible services.
Want to buy a house in a nice area, that all be eye watering stamp duty please.
Oh and for all that we get terrible services.
Puzzles said:
Plus getting hammered for.. Child benefit claw back, student loans, higher and additional rate tax, reduced child care hours, tapering of personal allowance and pension contributions. Plus years of fiscal drag.
Want to buy a house in a nice area, that all be eye watering stamp duty please.
Oh and for all that we get terrible services.
What's the phrase? Scandinavian tax levels with USA service levels.Want to buy a house in a nice area, that all be eye watering stamp duty please.
Oh and for all that we get terrible services.
Stop voting for Tories might work.
cheesejunkie said:
Puzzles said:
Plus getting hammered for.. Child benefit claw back, student loans, higher and additional rate tax, reduced child care hours, tapering of personal allowance and pension contributions. Plus years of fiscal drag.
Want to buy a house in a nice area, that all be eye watering stamp duty please.
Oh and for all that we get terrible services.
What's the phrase? Scandinavian tax levels with USA service levels.Want to buy a house in a nice area, that all be eye watering stamp duty please.
Oh and for all that we get terrible services.
Stop voting for Tories might work.
Just a quick scan of the above and it was Blunkett in 1998 who introduced student loans and fees abolishing the student grant, it was Darling in 2009 that brought in tapering of personal allowances, higher rate tax hit 98% under Wilson, it was Brown that destroyed pensions
All Labour
Wills2 said:
borcy said:
Wills2 said:
borcy said:
Wills2 said:
Given the minimum wage has doubled since 2010 that not the case is it, Whereas I see jobs that paid say £70-90k plus bonus in 2010 are still being advertised at that rate today, I see that the floor has risen and the the very top has sky rocketed leaving the middle squeezed and static (going backwards in real terms).
I earn no more than I did in 2010 as an example.
I suppose it may depend on your circumstances or whatever your industry. I can only speak for my experience and what I see. I earn no more than I did in 2010 as an example.
I was talking to a divisional sales director of a FTSE100 business yesterday he's offering the same packages for A/c managers that I was offering back in 2011 when I did his job, they had an OTE of 75k back then and still have today, that's a situation reflected across many businesses.
Let me try a different way of explaining it, the nmw has doubled in 15 years, so people earning that feel twice as wealthy since 2010?
That being true I'm sure we'll see the middle wage earners racing to change careers to stacking shelves in asda.
smifffymoto said:
A bit more from the coal face.
My daughter is looking for a job.
She has a 2.1 in Law with business from Exeter and is looking at graduate roles.
On Indeed,Total and all the other websites the majority of roles are in recruitment or sales.
Where are the quality jobs being advertised
ALL are paying minimum wage.
She watched an interview with a recruiter,If an attractive job gets posted,the recruiter can have 400+ applications in a couple of hours. They take the first 100 applicants for interviews,everyone else hears nothing.
Whilst she accepts she can’t earn big money from the outset,she and her peers are thinking what was the point of going to University when they can earn the same money stacking shelves.
I think in we are in for a Tsunami of problems when her age group need housing and a bigger wage to support a family.
We can’t keep burying our heads in the sand and keep wages down and keep creaming in ever bigger profits.
I don’t know what the solution is but we need to find one pretty quick before Gen Z give up entirely.
What type of career did she have in mind when she chose that degree? My daughter is looking for a job.
She has a 2.1 in Law with business from Exeter and is looking at graduate roles.
On Indeed,Total and all the other websites the majority of roles are in recruitment or sales.
Where are the quality jobs being advertised
ALL are paying minimum wage.
She watched an interview with a recruiter,If an attractive job gets posted,the recruiter can have 400+ applications in a couple of hours. They take the first 100 applicants for interviews,everyone else hears nothing.
Whilst she accepts she can’t earn big money from the outset,she and her peers are thinking what was the point of going to University when they can earn the same money stacking shelves.
I think in we are in for a Tsunami of problems when her age group need housing and a bigger wage to support a family.
We can’t keep burying our heads in the sand and keep wages down and keep creaming in ever bigger profits.
I don’t know what the solution is but we need to find one pretty quick before Gen Z give up entirely.
ATM said:
Bubble wording around recent house prices - my favourite I'll cut and paste below
https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/britain-property...
In 2009, the average property in England cost 6.4 times the average salary; by the end of the 2022-23 financial year, it cost 8.6 times more, according to the ONS’ latest data.
Whilst it is not wrong, they have cherry picked the date of 2009 to give the statement more impact. That was right after the 2008 crash, which saw a big fall in property prices. https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/britain-property...
In 2009, the average property in England cost 6.4 times the average salary; by the end of the 2022-23 financial year, it cost 8.6 times more, according to the ONS’ latest data.
I remember because I was looking to buy in 2008 and got made redundant due to the crash. I was extra cautious after that and didn't buy until 2010 when I had a much bigger deposit.
An opinion piece today in City Am about the UK housing crisis.
https://www.cityam.com/five-reasons-the-uk-has-a-h...
It's pretty good, but although it mentions longer commutes and a lack of desire to move into (expensive) cities as two side effects, it fails to fully describe how stamp duty is a major hindrance in this regard. Also a hindrance in terms of preventing empty-nesters bothering to downsize and free-up family-sized homes.
https://www.cityam.com/five-reasons-the-uk-has-a-h...
It's pretty good, but although it mentions longer commutes and a lack of desire to move into (expensive) cities as two side effects, it fails to fully describe how stamp duty is a major hindrance in this regard. Also a hindrance in terms of preventing empty-nesters bothering to downsize and free-up family-sized homes.
https://niesr.ac.uk/publications/uk-living-standar...
This makes slightly depressing reading. UK heading in the wrong direction. Easy to diagnose but hard to fix.
This makes slightly depressing reading. UK heading in the wrong direction. Easy to diagnose but hard to fix.
Skeptisk said:
https://niesr.ac.uk/publications/uk-living-standar...
This makes slightly depressing reading. UK heading in the wrong direction. Easy to diagnose but hard to fix.
Impossible to fix with current political thinking… will only degrade further. Unfortunately.This makes slightly depressing reading. UK heading in the wrong direction. Easy to diagnose but hard to fix.
Digga said:
An opinion piece today in City Am about the UK housing crisis.
https://www.cityam.com/five-reasons-the-uk-has-a-h...
It's pretty good, but although it mentions longer commutes and a lack of desire to move into (expensive) cities as two side effects, it fails to fully describe how stamp duty is a major hindrance in this regard. Also a hindrance in terms of preventing empty-nesters bothering to downsize and free-up family-sized homes.
I'd fully support 0 stamp duty for those downsizing. Looking at the census data near me, I see an incredible number of spare rooms in properties. The irony is that these people with spare rooms are often those fighting against the construction of new estates near them that include 3+ bedroom properties. https://www.cityam.com/five-reasons-the-uk-has-a-h...
It's pretty good, but although it mentions longer commutes and a lack of desire to move into (expensive) cities as two side effects, it fails to fully describe how stamp duty is a major hindrance in this regard. Also a hindrance in terms of preventing empty-nesters bothering to downsize and free-up family-sized homes.
Skeptisk said:
https://niesr.ac.uk/publications/uk-living-standar...
This makes slightly depressing reading. UK heading in the wrong direction. Easy to diagnose but hard to fix.
Stop importing a million low waged people a year. Easy fixThis makes slightly depressing reading. UK heading in the wrong direction. Easy to diagnose but hard to fix.
milesgiles said:
Skeptisk said:
https://niesr.ac.uk/publications/uk-living-standar...
This makes slightly depressing reading. UK heading in the wrong direction. Easy to diagnose but hard to fix.
Stop importing a million low waged people a year. Easy fixThis makes slightly depressing reading. UK heading in the wrong direction. Easy to diagnose but hard to fix.
Type R Tom said:
I'd fully support 0 stamp duty for those downsizing. Looking at the census data near me, I see an incredible number of spare rooms in properties. The irony is that these people with spare rooms are often those fighting against the construction of new estates near them that include 3+ bedroom properties.
But what if downsizing is selling two properties to buy one? (This happens to be the situation I am potentially looking at). Just scrap SDLT (or set to 1%) for the main property - it is a tax on mobility. They can go to do town on additional property for all I care e.g. Singapore has a 30% tax for second properties.milesgiles said:
smifffymoto said:
A bit more from the coal face.
My daughter is looking for a job.
She has a 2.1 in Law with business from Exeter and is looking at graduate roles.
On Indeed,Total and all the other websites the majority of roles are in recruitment or sales.
Where are the quality jobs being advertised
ALL are paying minimum wage.
She watched an interview with a recruiter,If an attractive job gets posted,the recruiter can have 400+ applications in a couple of hours. They take the first 100 applicants for interviews,everyone else hears nothing.
Whilst she accepts she can’t earn big money from the outset,she and her peers are thinking what was the point of going to University when they can earn the same money stacking shelves.
I think in we are in for a Tsunami of problems when her age group need housing and a bigger wage to support a family.
We can’t keep burying our heads in the sand and keep wages down and keep creaming in ever bigger profits.
I don’t know what the solution is but we need to find one pretty quick before Gen Z give up entirely.
What type of career did she have in mind when she chose that degree? My daughter is looking for a job.
She has a 2.1 in Law with business from Exeter and is looking at graduate roles.
On Indeed,Total and all the other websites the majority of roles are in recruitment or sales.
Where are the quality jobs being advertised
ALL are paying minimum wage.
She watched an interview with a recruiter,If an attractive job gets posted,the recruiter can have 400+ applications in a couple of hours. They take the first 100 applicants for interviews,everyone else hears nothing.
Whilst she accepts she can’t earn big money from the outset,she and her peers are thinking what was the point of going to University when they can earn the same money stacking shelves.
I think in we are in for a Tsunami of problems when her age group need housing and a bigger wage to support a family.
We can’t keep burying our heads in the sand and keep wages down and keep creaming in ever bigger profits.
I don’t know what the solution is but we need to find one pretty quick before Gen Z give up entirely.
We tell our kids the same things we were told - Try hard in school and pass your GCSEs, then your A-Levels, and then enjoy your student life and get that Degree and you're sorted, because degree = middle class success and happiness.
It's not true though, unless they have a vocational degree and even then, it's tough. Most Graduates will enter the job market at 21 or 22 in little better position than a school leaver, and very likely behind the 22yo former school lever with 3 years' experience looking for their first promotion.
My honest opinion to any 18yo who wants to study for a career that offers job security, good salary and statistically high levels of happiness I'd suggest they train to be a carpenter, plumber or electrician.
P-Jay said:
I don't want to be a dick, but this sort of thing is nothing new.
We tell our kids the same things we were told - Try hard in school and pass your GCSEs, then your A-Levels, and then enjoy your student life and get that Degree and you're sorted, because degree = middle class success and happiness.
It's not true though, unless they have a vocational degree and even then, it's tough. Most Graduates will enter the job market at 21 or 22 in little better position than a school leaver, and very likely behind the 22yo former school lever with 3 years' experience looking for their first promotion.
My honest opinion to any 18yo who wants to study for a career that offers job security, good salary and statistically high levels of happiness I'd suggest they train to be a carpenter, plumber or electrician.
Agree with all of that tbh , it was the Blair government that pushed the whole higher education which I get but it’s not the be all end all , I went into joinery on leaving school and did ok out of it earning decent money , the industry can be feed or famine though.We tell our kids the same things we were told - Try hard in school and pass your GCSEs, then your A-Levels, and then enjoy your student life and get that Degree and you're sorted, because degree = middle class success and happiness.
It's not true though, unless they have a vocational degree and even then, it's tough. Most Graduates will enter the job market at 21 or 22 in little better position than a school leaver, and very likely behind the 22yo former school lever with 3 years' experience looking for their first promotion.
My honest opinion to any 18yo who wants to study for a career that offers job security, good salary and statistically high levels of happiness I'd suggest they train to be a carpenter, plumber or electrician.
Probably would chose electrical now if I had the choice,I know a few guys who did that and have well payed jobs in security with alarms and fire detection, maybe a bit tedious but never been out of work.
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