Gary Stevenson – Economist
Discussion
Kawasicki said:
JagLover said:
Kawasicki said:
An example from Germany.
A friend of mine has a plan, one he is enacting. It requires effort on his part, it’s risky too, but here it is…
It’s kinda boring too, so apologies…
Buy a flat with a bit of spare cash (who has 10‘s of thousands of spare cash these days!). Rent it out for a few years… the tenants pay the mortgage. Sell it after X years, to minimise tax load.
Now he has a bigger pile of cash. Split it into two smaller piles and buy two apartment buildings (say 6 flats in each building).
Repeat every X years.
He has a VERY good tax adviser… he says he pays around 12% income tax… a fraction of what I pay. Guess what? His hard work and risk taking means he is getting wealthy, but also the fact that he pays so little tax!
That would be to do with the taxation of rental income and capital gains not due to a lack of taxes on "wealth". A friend of mine has a plan, one he is enacting. It requires effort on his part, it’s risky too, but here it is…
It’s kinda boring too, so apologies…
Buy a flat with a bit of spare cash (who has 10‘s of thousands of spare cash these days!). Rent it out for a few years… the tenants pay the mortgage. Sell it after X years, to minimise tax load.
Now he has a bigger pile of cash. Split it into two smaller piles and buy two apartment buildings (say 6 flats in each building).
Repeat every X years.
He has a VERY good tax adviser… he says he pays around 12% income tax… a fraction of what I pay. Guess what? His hard work and risk taking means he is getting wealthy, but also the fact that he pays so little tax!
Here BTL has been made less attractive due to changes in the tax system, including restrictions on offsetting interest expense which mean it is theoretically possible to be paying tax on taxable profits while actually making a loss. The consequences of this seem to be many exiting the BTL market and reduced supply for tenants.
Edited to add… that my friend started with 12k € cash… and drives a shed… so there is a bit of both sides of the argument in his story.
Edited by Kawasicki on Thursday 13th March 05:43
What are the similarities?
His friend is building wealth an hoarding assets....which is how you get rich. Problem is we don't want the masses in the UK to do that hence high income tax (you have to include NI on top as frankly you never see that money). Then local taxes on top in form of council tax which are lower than local income taxes but unless your getting social care the return on your tax is limited.
We have a choice ever higher tax for the masses to maintain services or lower tax an more personal responsibility (private health / education). Choose your pill I guess.
We have a choice ever higher tax for the masses to maintain services or lower tax an more personal responsibility (private health / education). Choose your pill I guess.
Gecko1978 said:
I forget the exact anecdote but it goes along the lines of all the wealth in a nation equals 100 an we spread it across 100 people (entire population). In time same people would have 90% of that money.
This seems to be the heart of the problem we loom at the gap an not at individuals. If you have £1bn an I have 30k a year can I still live day to day if yes then things are OK if no we need a change
I'm not at all sure they would be "the same people". Or even the entirely the same types of people. This seems to be the heart of the problem we loom at the gap an not at individuals. If you have £1bn an I have 30k a year can I still live day to day if yes then things are OK if no we need a change
Randy Winkman said:
Gecko1978 said:
I forget the exact anecdote but it goes along the lines of all the wealth in a nation equals 100 an we spread it across 100 people (entire population). In time same people would have 90% of that money.
This seems to be the heart of the problem we loom at the gap an not at individuals. If you have £1bn an I have 30k a year can I still live day to day if yes then things are OK if no we need a change
I'm not at all sure they would be "the same people". Or even the entirely the same types of people. This seems to be the heart of the problem we loom at the gap an not at individuals. If you have £1bn an I have 30k a year can I still live day to day if yes then things are OK if no we need a change
turbobloke said:
Randy Winkman said:
Gecko1978 said:
I forget the exact anecdote but it goes along the lines of all the wealth in a nation equals 100 an we spread it across 100 people (entire population). In time same people would have 90% of that money.
This seems to be the heart of the problem we loom at the gap an not at individuals. If you have £1bn an I have 30k a year can I still live day to day if yes then things are OK if no we need a change
I'm not at all sure they would be "the same people". Or even the entirely the same types of people. This seems to be the heart of the problem we loom at the gap an not at individuals. If you have £1bn an I have 30k a year can I still live day to day if yes then things are OK if no we need a change
Mazinbrum said:
contango said:
I can't listen to this chap for too long, with his apparent multi million pound fortune and mantra to tax the rich, does he realise he can pay more in voluntary tax contributions if he has such strong convictions? 
Just him paying more tax isn't going to fix anything.turbobloke said:
Mazinbrum said:
contango said:
I can't listen to this chap for too long, with his apparent multi million pound fortune and mantra to tax the rich, does he realise he can pay more in voluntary tax contributions if he has such strong convictions?
Just him paying more tax isn't going to fix anything.Mazinbrum said:
turbobloke said:
Mazinbrum said:
contango said:
I can't listen to this chap for too long, with his apparent multi million pound fortune and mantra to tax the rich, does he realise he can pay more in voluntary tax contributions if he has such strong convictions?
Just him paying more tax isn't going to fix anything.People advocating a higher rate of punishment for high earners / wealthy people can avoid hypocrisy, show leadership, and set a good example by paying more tax voluntarily. Why not? Surely it's not because more tax is OK when other people pay it? Or when sales of preaching are at stake?
Those (including me) who consider the overall level of taxation to be too high as it is, particularly income tax, they will likely not be sending in additional voluntary payments, in keeping with their stated position.
turbobloke said:
Mazinbrum said:
turbobloke said:
Mazinbrum said:
contango said:
I can't listen to this chap for too long, with his apparent multi million pound fortune and mantra to tax the rich, does he realise he can pay more in voluntary tax contributions if he has such strong convictions?
Just him paying more tax isn't going to fix anything.People advocating a higher rate of punishment for high earners / wealthy people can avoid hypocrisy, show leadership, and set a good example by paying more tax voluntarily. Why not? Surely it's not because more tax is OK when other people pay it? Or when sales of preaching are at stake?
Those (including me) who consider the overall level of taxation to be too high as it is, particularly income tax, they will likely not be sending in additional voluntary payments, in keeping with their stated position.
turbobloke said:
Mazinbrum said:
turbobloke said:
Mazinbrum said:
contango said:
I can't listen to this chap for too long, with his apparent multi million pound fortune and mantra to tax the rich, does he realise he can pay more in voluntary tax contributions if he has such strong convictions?
Just him paying more tax isn't going to fix anything.People advocating a higher rate of punishment for high earners / wealthy people can avoid hypocrisy, show leadership, and set a good example by paying more tax voluntarily. Why not? Surely it's not because more tax is OK when other people pay it? Or when sales of preaching are at stake?
Those (including me) who consider the overall level of taxation to be too high as it is, particularly income tax, they will likely not be sending in additional voluntary payments, in keeping with their stated position.
The wealthy in Gary’s sights are the families and individuals you don’t generally hear about or know. Not a bloke who goes to work for a living and earns £300k.
smifffymoto said:
turbobloke said:
Mazinbrum said:
turbobloke said:
Mazinbrum said:
contango said:
I can't listen to this chap for too long, with his apparent multi million pound fortune and mantra to tax the rich, does he realise he can pay more in voluntary tax contributions if he has such strong convictions?
Just him paying more tax isn't going to fix anything.People advocating a higher rate of punishment for high earners / wealthy people can avoid hypocrisy, show leadership, and set a good example by paying more tax voluntarily. Why not? Surely it's not because more tax is OK when other people pay it? Or when sales of preaching are at stake?
Those (including me) who consider the overall level of taxation to be too high as it is, particularly income tax, they will likely not be sending in additional voluntary payments, in keeping with their stated position.
The wealthy in Gary’s sights are the families and individuals you don’t generally hear about or know. Not a bloke who goes to work for a living and earns £300k.
At the above time, discussion had moved on and there was no mention of particular income kevels / wealth levels in any case. On a different matter, PH isn't representative, and there will not only be PHers reading this who do know such people, but also a few examples of such people.
The real wealth in this country isn't the billionaires.
It isn't the £100k+ earners.
It isn't the top 1% who pay 30% of all the taxes.
It's the millions and millions with hefty hauls of wealth who scrape by paying much tax on it because they take advantage of the plethora of tax advantages handed their way over the last couple of decades.
I'm talking about those who have £100K+ in cash ISAs, near to £1m in housing equity.
They pay no tax on savings, they pay no IHT. No CGT. No NICs.
It isn't the £100k+ earners.
It isn't the top 1% who pay 30% of all the taxes.
It's the millions and millions with hefty hauls of wealth who scrape by paying much tax on it because they take advantage of the plethora of tax advantages handed their way over the last couple of decades.
I'm talking about those who have £100K+ in cash ISAs, near to £1m in housing equity.
They pay no tax on savings, they pay no IHT. No CGT. No NICs.
John D. said:
I enjoyed his book, that I bought after reading a news article about him.
It's interesting (to me at least) that his book has been so heavily advertised and promoted (e.g. London Tube billboards) and some people have suggested that this is because he is actually a Shill for some fairly politically motivated organisations. i.e. the funding for the advertisements is not actually coming from his publisher but his murky backers ? He is on a mission and is part of this gang apparently : https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/apr/03/raise...
And Charlotte Gill on X is digging into him / them / the Global media co that runs all of London's adverts that might begin to explain it all. https://x.com/CharlotteCGill/status/18999726193043...
turbobloke said:
Mazinbrum said:
contango said:
I can't listen to this chap for too long, with his apparent multi million pound fortune and mantra to tax the rich, does he realise he can pay more in voluntary tax contributions if he has such strong convictions?
Just him paying more tax isn't going to fix anything.oyster said:
The real wealth in this country isn't the billionaires.
It isn't the £100k+ earners.
It isn't the top 1% who pay 30% of all the taxes.
It's the millions and millions with hefty hauls of wealth who scrape by paying much tax on it because they take advantage of the plethora of tax advantages handed their way over the last couple of decades.
I'm talking about those who have £100K+ in cash ISAs, near to £1m in housing equity.
They pay no tax on savings, they pay no IHT. No CGT. No NICs.
There’s huge cross over between the earners and the people speak of and they’re be the difficult likely to isolate. It isn't the £100k+ earners.
It isn't the top 1% who pay 30% of all the taxes.
It's the millions and millions with hefty hauls of wealth who scrape by paying much tax on it because they take advantage of the plethora of tax advantages handed their way over the last couple of decades.
I'm talking about those who have £100K+ in cash ISAs, near to £1m in housing equity.
They pay no tax on savings, they pay no IHT. No CGT. No NICs.
You’re missing, we get no tax free savings allowance, we get no incentive on childcare or benefit, we lose our pension allowance, we pay huge sums in SDLT - it isn’t all that rosey.
Expect most of the 1% are your ‘target’ people after a few years. And I’d wager you don’t even know about half of the stuff these people lose out on as they earn more and more. Of course there are those who inherited - but to build equity or ISA wealth takes time.
oyster said:
The real wealth in this country isn't the billionaires.
It isn't the £100k+ earners.
It isn't the top 1% who pay 30% of all the taxes.
It's the millions and millions with hefty hauls of wealth who scrape by paying much tax on it because they take advantage of the plethora of tax advantages handed their way over the last couple of decades.
I'm talking about those who have £100K+ in cash ISAs, near to £1m in housing equity.
They pay no tax on savings, they pay no IHT. No CGT. No NICs.
How does someone with £1m in housing equity not pay IHT?It isn't the £100k+ earners.
It isn't the top 1% who pay 30% of all the taxes.
It's the millions and millions with hefty hauls of wealth who scrape by paying much tax on it because they take advantage of the plethora of tax advantages handed their way over the last couple of decades.
I'm talking about those who have £100K+ in cash ISAs, near to £1m in housing equity.
They pay no tax on savings, they pay no IHT. No CGT. No NICs.
fat80b said:
John D. said:
I enjoyed his book, that I bought after reading a news article about him.
It's interesting (to me at least) that his book has been so heavily advertised and promoted (e.g. London Tube billboards) and some people have suggested that this is because he is actually a Shill for some fairly politically motivated organisations. i.e. the funding for the advertisements is not actually coming from his publisher but his murky backers ? He is on a mission and is part of this gang apparently : https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/apr/03/raise...
And Charlotte Gill on X is digging into him / them / the Global media co that runs all of London's adverts that might begin to explain it all. https://x.com/CharlotteCGill/status/18999726193043...
A clue:
There is nothing wrong with a bunch of like minded people working together to try to change things for the greater good. That's what charities do. That's what political parties do.
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