UK file-sharers will be 'cut off'

[theaxe]

Peter Mandelson's recent dinner with Hollywood mogul David Geffen is unrelated to today's crackdown on internet piracy, the government has insisted

[JagLover]

Mr E said:

sunbeam_alpine said:

At the same time, I am sure that also 99% of the people who download music/films/software would NEVER go to a shop to steal CD's/DVD's etc. Surely the only real difference is the medium?

Nope. The first is copyright infringement.
The second is theft.

Semantics really.

It costs a few pence to make a CD/DVD you are paying for the information encoded thereon.

[Funk]

It makes me laugh when they say, "...illegal file-sharing cost the industry £X million.." It's not illegal/theft, it's copyright infringement for a start. Additionally, it's not as if those downloading were ever going to buy in the first place.

[JagLover]

Funk said:

Additionally, it's not as if those downloading were ever going to buy in the first place.

Really?

Falling music sales would suggest that many who would have paid in the past no longer do so.

Furthermore with the cost of a track on Itunes at 99p and Supermarkets selling many movies for £3-£4 is it really the case that sales would not increase if illegal alternatives were curtailed?

[Funk]

JagLover said:

Funk said:

Additionally, it's not as if those downloading were ever going to buy in the first place.

Really?

Falling music sales would suggest that many who would have paid in the past no longer do so.

Furthermore with the cost of a track on Itunes at 99p and Supermarkets selling many movies for £3-£4 is it really the case that sales would not increase if illegal alternatives were curtailed?

I think sales of most things are falling at the moment. Why would the music/film industry be any different? One would presume they're targeting the 'hardcore' uploaders and downloaders; I can't imagine them suddenly going out and buying things.

The issue is that by clinging to the old business models, both music and film industries have missed the boat; users are too used to getting stuff free and getting them to see the value of paying for it will be difficult. One thing is positive though; it should drive up album music quality. In an age where you can pick and choose the tracks you like, people won't tolerate an album of three hits and 10 'fillers' that aren't good enough to be released.

[Negative Creep]

JagLover said:

Funk said:

Additionally, it's not as if those downloading were ever going to buy in the first place.

Really?

Falling music sales would suggest that many who would have paid in the past no longer do so.

Furthermore with the cost of a track on Itunes at 99p and Supermarkets selling many movies for £3-£4 is it really the case that sales would not increase if illegal alternatives were curtailed?

Works the other way as well. I've discovered many great bands by downloading their music, then liking it so much I bought the cd. Otherwise I wouldn't take the chance on spending a tenner on something I may hate. So downloading has expanded my cd collection

[Mr E]

JagLover said:

Semantics really.

It costs a few pence to make a CD/DVD you are paying for the information encoded thereon.

Possibly, but legally quite different.

If I steal a DVD from you, you no longer have it and cannot enjoy it or sell it.
If I take a copy of it, you are in no way impacted. You can still do all the things you previously could.

The copyright holder is impacted, as one could try to make the assumption that I have deprived him of appropriate royalties for his work, but it is not theft.

Which is why I think everyone should complain to the ASA about the "piracy is theft" adverts - as it demonstrably isn't.

[off_again]

Funk said:

It makes me laugh when they say, "...illegal file-sharing cost the industry £X million.." It's not illegal/theft, it's copyright infringement for a start. Additionally, it's not as if those downloading were ever going to buy in the first place.

Exactly. These people were unlikely to ever buy the legal stuff in the first place so why would they now. A good example is to look at the court submissions to some of the prosecutions in the USA for music sharing. Many of the people prosecuted had hundreds of albums they never listened to. This somewhat defeats the whole bloody idea doesn't it? I mean, its for listening to in the first place - collecting them means actually owning something that is real, not virtual....

I would suggest the same is true of movie downloaders too. They spend all of that time finding and downloading the latest dodgy quality film so that they can maintain bragging rights to claim to have seen stuff. Yet they still do it. The drawback is that its not totally innocent as it has a massive impact on the ISP's and other customers who use the same service.

[Funk]

Negative Creep said:

JagLover said:

Funk said:

Additionally, it's not as if those downloading were ever going to buy in the first place.

Really?

Falling music sales would suggest that many who would have paid in the past no longer do so.

Furthermore with the cost of a track on Itunes at 99p and Supermarkets selling many movies for £3-£4 is it really the case that sales would not increase if illegal alternatives were curtailed?

Works the other way as well. I've discovered many great bands by downloading their music, then liking it so much I bought the cd. Otherwise I wouldn't take the chance on spending a tenner on something I may hate. So downloading has expanded my cd collection

I've also done this and will concur. I've done it with games too (notably Crysis, Orange Box etc).

[350GT]

I wonder what is worse? Stealing a dvd from a store, or 'stealing' a dvd from the internet? Is it the same punishment? Which is worse? The physical stealing of a dvd, otherwise known as shoplifting, or stealing a copy?

[Mr Whippy]

Negative Creep said:

JagLover said:

Funk said:

Additionally, it's not as if those downloading were ever going to buy in the first place.

Really?

Falling music sales would suggest that many who would have paid in the past no longer do so.

Furthermore with the cost of a track on Itunes at 99p and Supermarkets selling many movies for £3-£4 is it really the case that sales would not increase if illegal alternatives were curtailed?

Works the other way as well. I've discovered many great bands by downloading their music, then liking it so much I bought the cd. Otherwise I wouldn't take the chance on spending a tenner on something I may hate. So downloading has expanded my cd collection

Same here. I'd say the majority of my media/software purchases over the past five years have been driven by having either a very good demo of it, or a 'full working' demo... which has made me think I really need to buy it!

I buy very little without trying it out first, there is so much crap out there these days!

Dave

[Frankeh]

You know what really pisses me off? When I'm sitting in the cinema and they tell me not to steal/download movies. If I'm in a cinema, what the hell am I doing? That's right. Paying for movies.

[elster]

350GT said:

I wonder what is worse? Stealing a dvd from a store, or 'stealing' a dvd from the internet? Is it the same punishment? Which is worse? The physical stealing of a dvd, otherwise known as shoplifting, or stealing a copy?

it has to be stealing a dvd. As there the shop is making a loss.

The copy is merely someone not receiving more royalties. They don't receive, however they are not making a loss.

It only seems to be the larger companies, most artists are quite happy with the idea. The money is to be made from touring.

just like going back to bootleg tapes.

[off_again]

Frankeh said:

You know what really pisses me off? When I'm sitting in the cinema and they tell me not to steal/download movies. If I'm in a cinema, what the hell am I doing? That's right. Paying for movies.

A hell of a lot of the downloads come from people who take cameras into theatres and then record the film, then uploading it within hours of a new release. This side of downloading does have a massive impact on overall sales / tickets and can effectively reduce the overall revenue that can be earned. Some films have been leaked early from these pre-viewings and ended up with massively reduced attendance later. This is for specific types of film though, and not all are impacted accordingly - I doubt that some period rom-com would be impacted for example.

In fact its big business these days - DVD piracy is now generating millions and some theatre owners are being paid off to get access to films so the quality is better. Downloading is a spin off from this, but unfortunately linked - albeit without any revenue attached because its free.

And yes, those adverts are probably the most badly judged and misguided ones that I have had the misfortune to see. Utterly miss the mark and now fuel for comedians around the world....

[Mr Whippy]

Frankeh said:

You know what really pisses me off? When I'm sitting in the cinema and they tell me not to steal/download movies. If I'm in a cinema, what the hell am I doing? That's right. Paying for movies.

Haha, yep, or sitting watching your paid for DVD, having to be forced to watch the tripe about not copying.

If I'd actually copied it I wouldn't even have this bit copied onto my DVD or x264 HD video file etc

It is all, imho, retarded ill logic.

If you can watch it and hear it, you can copy it. Simples.

Dave

[Plotloss]

Mr Whippy said:

Frankeh said:

You know what really pisses me off? When I'm sitting in the cinema and they tell me not to steal/download movies. If I'm in a cinema, what the hell am I doing? That's right. Paying for movies.

Haha, yep, or sitting watching your paid for DVD, having to be forced to watch the tripe about not copying.

If I'd actually copied it I wouldn't even have this bit copied onto my DVD or x264 HD video file etc

It is all, imho, retarded ill logic.

If you can watch it and hear it, you can copy it. Simples.

Dave

I'd love the download speed of the bird in that advert.

[Mr E]

Mr Whippy said:

Frankeh said:

You know what really pisses me off? When I'm sitting in the cinema and they tell me not to steal/download movies. If I'm in a cinema, what the hell am I doing? That's right. Paying for movies.

Haha, yep, or sitting watching your paid for DVD, having to be forced to watch the tripe about not copying.

If I'd actually copied it I wouldn't even have this bit copied onto my DVD or x264 HD video file etc

It's more amusing than that. If I want to watch my legally purchased bluRay movie on my Linux box I have to rip it and crack the encryption...

[Parrot of Doom]

Funk said:

Negative Creep said:

JagLover said:

Funk said:

Additionally, it's not as if those downloading were ever going to buy in the first place.

Really?

Falling music sales would suggest that many who would have paid in the past no longer do so.

Furthermore with the cost of a track on Itunes at 99p and Supermarkets selling many movies for £3-£4 is it really the case that sales would not increase if illegal alternatives were curtailed?

Works the other way as well. I've discovered many great bands by downloading their music, then liking it so much I bought the cd. Otherwise I wouldn't take the chance on spending a tenner on something I may hate. So downloading has expanded my cd collection

I've also done this and will concur. I've done it with games too (notably Crysis, Orange Box etc).

Ditto here with Bioshock.

[Frankeh]

[Eric Mc]

Frankeh said:

Would if I could.