"England's Green and Prejudiced Land" - S. Times Mag, p16
Discussion
What a knob!
In a previous article he proclaimed Lewes to be 'twee and white'. God help him if he goes to Somerset - his head will explode!
As said - he was looking for racism where there was none and he strikes me as one of the racial crusaders who actively looks to be offended by something. The sort of person that canvases to have all Christian references removed from Christmas lest it offend a Muslim, creates a huge local s
tstorm when the Muslims couldn't give a flying fk and just want to get on with their lives with the minimum of fuss and grief.
In a previous article he proclaimed Lewes to be 'twee and white'. God help him if he goes to Somerset - his head will explode!
As said - he was looking for racism where there was none and he strikes me as one of the racial crusaders who actively looks to be offended by something. The sort of person that canvases to have all Christian references removed from Christmas lest it offend a Muslim, creates a huge local s
tstorm when the Muslims couldn't give a flying fk and just want to get on with their lives with the minimum of fuss and grief.Edited by Asterix on Monday 9th August 08:56
heebeegeetee said:
That's not the issue; the fact that belguim or wherever is worse does not make any difference to the guy's (or that of his family) daily life, does it?
OF course it is. If we are to be pilloried then it must be taken into account that if the author were to live elsewhere then they would be in a far worse position.This country could imgprove BUT in my experience of many other nations, England is one of the least prejudiced places around.
Jasandjules said:
heebeegeetee said:
That's not the issue; the fact that belguim or wherever is worse does not make any difference to the guy's (or that of his family) daily life, does it?
OF course it is. If we are to be pilloried then it must be taken into account that if the author were to live elsewhere then they would be in a far worse position.This country could imgprove BUT in my experience of many other nations, England is one of the least prejudiced places around.
What gets me again is that these people want the majority to bend to the minority and it simply doesn't work like that. The UK is something like 93% 'white' overall but those figures are likely to be distorted in inner city areas and the opposite in country areas. What did he expect? It's a 'white' country in the same way that Nigeria is a 'black' country.
Asterix said:
Jasandjules said:
heebeegeetee said:
That's not the issue; the fact that belguim or wherever is worse does not make any difference to the guy's (or that of his family) daily life, does it?
OF course it is. If we are to be pilloried then it must be taken into account that if the author were to live elsewhere then they would be in a far worse position.This country could imgprove BUT in my experience of many other nations, England is one of the least prejudiced places around.
The guy is talking about his home town and is family. What's happening in Burkina Faso or wherever has absolutely nothing to do with the issue.
heebeegeetee said:
Asterix said:
Jasandjules said:
heebeegeetee said:
That's not the issue; the fact that belguim or wherever is worse does not make any difference to the guy's (or that of his family) daily life, does it?
OF course it is. If we are to be pilloried then it must be taken into account that if the author were to live elsewhere then they would be in a far worse position.This country could imgprove BUT in my experience of many other nations, England is one of the least prejudiced places around.
The guy is talking about his home town and is family. What's happening in Burkina Faso or wherever has absolutely nothing to do with the issue.
ATG said:
I'd be amazed if there wasn't a considerable amount of prejudice. At some point you have to face up to the fact that people are instinctively prejudiced.
Discovering the neighbour is a BNP moron; not great. Teachers assuming you're going to be a worse pupil; pretty bloody unhelpful.
But one kid pointing out to another that he has big nostrils? Really, what do you expect kids to do? Of course they're going to be curious about difference. It is inevitable. And if you are the one black kid in the class, then you are going to be visibly different from your peers and your appearance is going to be the source of some curiosity. You can rightly expect the school to anticipate this problem and to actively try to manage it, but that is all that they or anyone else can do - try to manage it. No one can be expected to magic the problem away.
Absolutely bang on - we're all prejudiced in some form or other, it's choosing to act on that prejudice or not that makes the difference.Discovering the neighbour is a BNP moron; not great. Teachers assuming you're going to be a worse pupil; pretty bloody unhelpful.
But one kid pointing out to another that he has big nostrils? Really, what do you expect kids to do? Of course they're going to be curious about difference. It is inevitable. And if you are the one black kid in the class, then you are going to be visibly different from your peers and your appearance is going to be the source of some curiosity. You can rightly expect the school to anticipate this problem and to actively try to manage it, but that is all that they or anyone else can do - try to manage it. No one can be expected to magic the problem away.
The whole 'notrils' thing is just silly, as you point out it's the nature of kids to point out the slightest of difference and the bigger the difference the more likely it is to be picked on.
At school one of my best mates was very very fat and got constantly picked on or commented on because of it. I had glasses and the usual jibe of 'foureyes' was really no different for being singled out for skin colour.
Jasandjules said:
I get fed up hearing how prejudiced this country is. Clearly the authors of trash like that have never been abroad and seen just how prejudiced other nations can be.
I too think that because something as abhorrent as racism happens else where, people should not bring it up in this country. I am also fed up with rape victims complaining about rape, don't they know that it happens in other nations, and sometimes the rapes are a lot more violent!Jimbeaux said:
Asians can be some of the most racist people on the planet.
That's probably the best definition of 'irony' from an american i've heard so far. 
IMO, most people, even in what you might define as 'unfriendly' countries are quite friendly once you actually chat to them .. problem is getting to that stage .. we all do the same things eat, sh*t, watch TV etc.Edited by fido on Monday 9th August 09:53
Asterix said:
heebeegeetee said:
Asterix said:
Jasandjules said:
heebeegeetee said:
That's not the issue; the fact that belguim or wherever is worse does not make any difference to the guy's (or that of his family) daily life, does it?
OF course it is. If we are to be pilloried then it must be taken into account that if the author were to live elsewhere then they would be in a far worse position.This country could imgprove BUT in my experience of many other nations, England is one of the least prejudiced places around.
The guy is talking about his home town and is family. What's happening in Burkina Faso or wherever has absolutely nothing to do with the issue.
heebeegeetee said:
Asterix said:
heebeegeetee said:
Asterix said:
Jasandjules said:
heebeegeetee said:
That's not the issue; the fact that belguim or wherever is worse does not make any difference to the guy's (or that of his family) daily life, does it?
OF course it is. If we are to be pilloried then it must be taken into account that if the author were to live elsewhere then they would be in a far worse position.This country could imgprove BUT in my experience of many other nations, England is one of the least prejudiced places around.
The guy is talking about his home town and is family. What's happening in Burkina Faso or wherever has absolutely nothing to do with the issue.
On another note - my (late) grandmother was Thai, she came from Bangkok to settle in Bristol in the late 40's and as far as I can gather, as it has never been mentoined once, she wasn't subjected to racism, curiosity perhaps, but not anything malicious. After retiring as a senior manager for Mothercare, she and my grandfather retired to a tiny hamlet in deepest, darkest Somerset (not even big enough to have a pub) and they were extremely happy and she was adored by the local community. Probably because she got involved, treated everyone with respect and was geniune.
Maybe others should try the same and see what happens.
heebeegeetee said:
Asterix said:
heebeegeetee said:
Asterix said:
Jasandjules said:
heebeegeetee said:
That's not the issue; the fact that belguim or wherever is worse does not make any difference to the guy's (or that of his family) daily life, does it?
OF course it is. If we are to be pilloried then it must be taken into account that if the author were to live elsewhere then they would be in a far worse position.This country could imgprove BUT in my experience of many other nations, England is one of the least prejudiced places around.
The guy is talking about his home town and is family. What's happening in Burkina Faso or wherever has absolutely nothing to do with the issue.
To be offended by the word crusader - and TBH I'm assuming you are not, is to get history back to front.
The crusades were a reaction too, not an attack on Islam. Islamic forces were expanding - and had been for decades into Europe, occupying territory by force and extending their Caliphate. Large areas of the Balkans and Spain were taken, the then more technically and scientifically advanced Muslim world was waging jihad against Christendom, Europe's reaction to that - the Crusades was actually late in coming.
By modern standards some gruesome things happened in these wars, but by the standards of the day it was well standard practise, for example if a besieged city did not surrender it was understood that it would be sacked.
In short Islam getting offended about the crusades, would be a bit like the Germans getting upset that the Allies ganged up on them during world war II, which they started.
At the bottom of that online article was some detail about a book that the guy had written. I think that he is caucasa-phobic (made up word; you get the idea).
Yes, he lived next to someone who isn't a nice man. But that neighbour doesn't reflect the rest of society; he shouldn't pretend that it does.
Yes, he lived next to someone who isn't a nice man. But that neighbour doesn't reflect the rest of society; he shouldn't pretend that it does.
rudecherub said:
heebeegeetee said:
Asterix said:
heebeegeetee said:
Asterix said:
Jasandjules said:
heebeegeetee said:
That's not the issue; the fact that belguim or wherever is worse does not make any difference to the guy's (or that of his family) daily life, does it?
OF course it is. If we are to be pilloried then it must be taken into account that if the author were to live elsewhere then they would be in a far worse position.This country could imgprove BUT in my experience of many other nations, England is one of the least prejudiced places around.
The guy is talking about his home town and is family. What's happening in Burkina Faso or wherever has absolutely nothing to do with the issue.
To be offended by the word crusader - and TBH I'm assuming you are not, is to get history back to front.
The crusades were a reaction too, not an attack on Islam. Islamic forces were expanding - and had been for decades into Europe, occupying territory by force and extending their Caliphate. Large areas of the Balkans and Spain were taken, the then more technically and scientifically advanced Muslim world was waging jihad against Christendom, Europe's reaction to that - the Crusades was actually late in coming.
By modern standards some gruesome things happened in these wars, but by the standards of the day it was well standard practise, for example if a besieged city did not surrender it was understood that it would be sacked.
In short Islam getting offended about the crusades, would be a bit like the Germans getting upset that the Allies ganged up on them during world war II, which they started.
Saying "the other lot were worse" has nothing to do with it. For me, crusades represent a period when people from Britain were rampaging in foreign lands, raping, murdering and pillaging, and claiming it was god's will.
To use your Nazi analogy, perhaps they were the Nazis and we were Stalins communists. Either way it's all wrong.
And plus we in the west don't seem to like the use of the word 'jihadi' which seems much the same thing to me. We probably wouldn't like it if cafes in England were called The Jihadist, or if that name were given to newspapers or other publications. We don't like it when foreign religious mentalists proclaim a jihad against x,y or z, but saw nothing wrong when President Bush declared a crusade against terrorism - talk about fanning the flames.
We shouldn't use the word 'crusade' because it is deeply offensive to many. That it isn't offensive to us says more about our ignorance than anything else.
I lived in Fulham at the time the BNP membership list was published and there were far more than 4 members in our postcode, including the little old lady we bought our house from.
You could argue that his BNP neighbour did less harm to his family's integration by spouting racist claptrap online to fellow racists on the other side of the world than his own decision to call his new choice of home 'twee and insular' in a national paper. Clearly not as bright as he thinks he is.
You could argue that his BNP neighbour did less harm to his family's integration by spouting racist claptrap online to fellow racists on the other side of the world than his own decision to call his new choice of home 'twee and insular' in a national paper. Clearly not as bright as he thinks he is.
Well the fact that one of a handful of occasions I've ever put the 'phone down on a paying customer was after hearing some racist prick - actuall from Lewes (on my honour) - ranting idiot bile. Just to really piss the guy off - he'd dealt with us for years but had never me me face to face - my comment before putting the 'phone down on him was; "how do you know that I am not black?".
The event had been consigned to the depths of my memory until I read this. I'd still say that event was a coincidence.
I'd agree with the O/P that the guy went out of his way to be offended. Taking offence to local womeon his wife had met telling her there was no racism in Lewes - Christ, the comments are well meant and seek to diminish any petty bogtry, rather than promote it in the way the article does.
I even began to feel a tad non PC myself - I'd never given much though (or recieved 'official' guidance) as to when to use the adjectives 'black' or 'coloured'. For the record, I loathe racism, but this PC whingeing is just fuel to the idiot's fire.
The event had been consigned to the depths of my memory until I read this. I'd still say that event was a coincidence.
I'd agree with the O/P that the guy went out of his way to be offended. Taking offence to local womeon his wife had met telling her there was no racism in Lewes - Christ, the comments are well meant and seek to diminish any petty bogtry, rather than promote it in the way the article does.
I even began to feel a tad non PC myself - I'd never given much though (or recieved 'official' guidance) as to when to use the adjectives 'black' or 'coloured'. For the record, I loathe racism, but this PC whingeing is just fuel to the idiot's fire.
Edited by Digga on Monday 9th August 13:00
heebeegeetee said:
rudecherub said:
heebeegeetee said:
Asterix said:
heebeegeetee said:
Asterix said:
Jasandjules said:
heebeegeetee said:
That's not the issue; the fact that belguim or wherever is worse does not make any difference to the guy's (or that of his family) daily life, does it?
OF course it is. If we are to be pilloried then it must be taken into account that if the author were to live elsewhere then they would be in a far worse position.This country could imgprove BUT in my experience of many other nations, England is one of the least prejudiced places around.
The guy is talking about his home town and is family. What's happening in Burkina Faso or wherever has absolutely nothing to do with the issue.
To be offended by the word crusader - and TBH I'm assuming you are not, is to get history back to front.
The crusades were a reaction too, not an attack on Islam. Islamic forces were expanding - and had been for decades into Europe, occupying territory by force and extending their Caliphate. Large areas of the Balkans and Spain were taken, the then more technically and scientifically advanced Muslim world was waging jihad against Christendom, Europe's reaction to that - the Crusades was actually late in coming.
By modern standards some gruesome things happened in these wars, but by the standards of the day it was well standard practise, for example if a besieged city did not surrender it was understood that it would be sacked.
In short Islam getting offended about the crusades, would be a bit like the Germans getting upset that the Allies ganged up on them during world war II, which they started.
Saying "the other lot were worse" has nothing to do with it. For me, crusades represent a period when people from Britain were rampaging in foreign lands, raping, murdering and pillaging, and claiming it was god's will.
To use your Nazi analogy, perhaps they were the Nazis and we were Stalins communists. Either way it's all wrong.
And plus we in the west don't seem to like the use of the word 'jihadi' which seems much the same thing to me. We probably wouldn't like it if cafes in England were called The Jihadist, or if that name were given to newspapers or other publications. We don't like it when foreign religious mentalists proclaim a jihad against x,y or z, but saw nothing wrong when President Bush declared a crusade against terrorism - talk about fanning the flames.
We shouldn't use the word 'crusade' because it is deeply offensive to many. That it isn't offensive to us says more about our ignorance than anything else.
There was always religion in some shape or form it predates modern man, until the age of enlightenment every one thought in quasi religious terms, in that sense it is impossible to separate entirely religious belief from political motive.
However in terms of history the conflict between Islam and Christendom, was much as any other war - two tribal blocks going for each other over territory and economic resources, the religious badge is just a flag of convenience to indicate which side was which.
Your knowledge of history is limp if you think the Cursades were " crusades represent a period when people from Britain were rampaging in foreign lands, raping, murdering and pillaging, and claiming it was god's will" is woefully ignorant, it was period when Europe acted collectively against a better armed and technically more advanced aggressor, who was invading European lands.
I didn't say one side was worse in bloody terms than the other, far from it, they fought in accordance to the violent reality of that time - what I said was, and this is a matter of fact, that one side was the aggressor.
More over to characterise this, indeed any war as a religious is naive and over simplistic, religion is a good excuse for killing but an excuse it is. Wars are fought for economic reasons. The most blood thirsty regimes in modern times were political cults, like Stalin and Mao, whose regimes persecuted religion in the name of science, indeed the Nazi justified their politics based on their understanding of evolutionary science.
You could say that understanding was flawed - just as religious thinkers over the centuries have good reason to say the religious reasons for bloodshed are flawed, but that never stopped political power.
Essentially human beings can be cruel killers, and will find an excuse to do so.
The word crusade has been used in many contexts over the years, crusade against drink driving, or crusade for women's rights, to stop using this term, because a group of people wish to rewrite history to portray themselves as the historical victim rather than the aggressor is to pander to the worst of human nature.
What next we stop using the word Humanitarian?
Obviously the Taliban find that an offensive thing to do, an act of war, they do not distinguish between Christian Charity, and the western morality that evolved from that independent of faith.
They did not kill Dr Woo and her colleagues because she was Christian, she wasn't - they killed her because her actions undermined their political power expressed under the flag of religious dogma.
So how close did Islam come to conquering Britain? I can't recall ever seeing images of Islamic military aeroplanes flying over Britain, or Islamic warships off the coast of Britain at any time in our history.
So how big was the threat to us, or indeed western Europe?
All my life i've been told that islam represents a threat to us, but so far it has only seemed to amount to a few bombs on buses - it hardly amounts to B52s pounding the st out of us, does it?
We don't like the use of the word jihadi and i think most western people liken the use of the word to a threat. I'm sure people from eastern lands liken the word 'crusade' in a similar light. Indeed they use the word 'crusaders' against us to this day.
I just think it might help the situation if we respect each others sensitivities. It might also help if one day we stop gallivanting in foreign lands under one pretext or another.
So how big was the threat to us, or indeed western Europe?
All my life i've been told that islam represents a threat to us, but so far it has only seemed to amount to a few bombs on buses - it hardly amounts to B52s pounding the s
t out of us, does it?We don't like the use of the word jihadi and i think most western people liken the use of the word to a threat. I'm sure people from eastern lands liken the word 'crusade' in a similar light. Indeed they use the word 'crusaders' against us to this day.
I just think it might help the situation if we respect each others sensitivities. It might also help if one day we stop gallivanting in foreign lands under one pretext or another.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff