Student march at Millbank
Discussion
It seems the best way to discredit and marginalise students protesting about (yet another) lie from politicians is to drum up some violence.
However I suspect regular students were as surprised as everyone else and violence was not what they wanted at all.. Those people causing the violence do not behave like any students I have met, is there any evidence that they are real students??
Perhaps we could avoid all this if politicians were legally bound by their election promises - but that's a bill that would never get through parliament... ...I'm still waiting for my referendum on the EU I was promised - still waiting because the EU stamps on democracy.
However I suspect regular students were as surprised as everyone else and violence was not what they wanted at all.. Those people causing the violence do not behave like any students I have met, is there any evidence that they are real students??
Perhaps we could avoid all this if politicians were legally bound by their election promises - but that's a bill that would never get through parliament... ...I'm still waiting for my referendum on the EU I was promised - still waiting because the EU stamps on democracy.
I hope they're all having a lovely time protesting against the perceived injustice. Frankly I think it's a good thing, people should be very bloody sure that they want to go to University - it shouldn't be a throwaway thing! We need more practical degrees and less Lady Gaga Studies; and frankly less students overall. The amount of my peers that came to Uni purely "for the lifestyle" is astounding. I don't know where these alleged students are finding the time to protest anyway.
Now if you'll excuse me, I need to get back to working my b
ks off for an Engineering degree while juggling a wife and two kids under 3. I was in Uni till 1.30am last night. tts.
Now if you'll excuse me, I need to get back to working my b
ks off for an Engineering degree while juggling a wife and two kids under 3. I was in Uni till 1.30am last night. tts.So, when these naiive students finish university and find there aren't jobs for many of them, will they then go on strike again demanding jobs? Can't they realise that further education isn't a right just as a job isn't a right, owning a home isn't a right, owning a car isn't a right? Why do these people assume that others need to provide them with what they demand?
I wouldnt mind so much if they went and trashed Labour HQ as well
Given that
Labour has put more debt over each of our heads than a university degree would.
I have no choice but to pay labours national debt, i have a choice to go to university.
I have to pay the national debt, either by taxes or inflation, regardless of what i earn
The interest on labours national debt is greater than the entire universities budget.
Labour made no promises against uncapping tuition fees prior to the election.
As it stands i just view them as hypocrite extensions of the vile labour party. A convenient Rent-a-mob
Given that
Labour has put more debt over each of our heads than a university degree would.
I have no choice but to pay labours national debt, i have a choice to go to university.
I have to pay the national debt, either by taxes or inflation, regardless of what i earn
The interest on labours national debt is greater than the entire universities budget.
Labour made no promises against uncapping tuition fees prior to the election.
As it stands i just view them as hypocrite extensions of the vile labour party. A convenient Rent-a-mob
Silver993tt said:
So, when these naiive students finish university and find there aren't jobs for many of them, will they then go on strike again demanding jobs? Can't they realise that further education isn't a right just as a job isn't a right, owning a home isn't a right, owning a car isn't a right? Why do these people assume that others need to provide them with what they demand?
Well put.Silver993tt said:
So, when these naiive students finish university and find there aren't jobs for many of them, will they then go on strike again demanding jobs? Can't they realise that further education isn't a right just as a job isn't a right, owning a home isn't a right, owning a car isn't a right? Why do these people assume that others need to provide them with what they demand?
Because in 21st century Britain you never grow up. Saw a work training scheme for unemployed twentysomethings on news earlier. Organiser constantly reffered to these 25,26,28 year old men as 'boys', that the work scheme gives them 'something to do' News crew followed him back to his flat where he promptly turned on the playstation while GF with sprogs said how great the scheme is and boyfiend isnt at home drinking all day
Treat them like petulant children, and, guess what, they behave like petulant little children.
12gauge said:
I wouldnt mind so much if they went and trashed Labour HQ as well
Yes, you would think so:1) In 1997 Blair promised there would be no student fees, and introduced them later that year.
2) Then Labour promised they would not increase them, and put them up to £3,000 per year.
3) Labour then commissioned the Browne enquiry and promised to accept and implement it's recommendation, which the coalition has done.
Tuition fees were started and increased to todays level by Labour.
Additionally I note the use of the word 'They'. As I pointed out above, students do not generally behave like yobs, but the Education Action Network, which organises these "protests", is a Socialist Worker Party front group.
So in effect this is a Socialist Worker Party protest against Labour policies and actions - re-directed towards the coalition.
As I said in the earlier about not having an opinion about the first march (and being attacked by two very angry people for it - and being labelled a sociopath and a psychopath by them), there is usually what it looks like on the surface (a bunch of freeloading rowdy students) and what it actually is (a trumped up socialist march to cause trouble).
As for the actual question of university fees, I didn't have to pay them - so why should I expect others to? We're talking about £3bn here, just after a casual bung of £7bn to the bottomless pit of the Irish AIB bonus bailout fund. UKIP wanted to scrap the fees, but unlike the lying Clegg they had a way of paying for it.
whoami said:
Silver993tt said:
So, when these naiive students finish university and find there aren't jobs for many of them, will they then go on strike again demanding jobs? Can't they realise that further education isn't a right just as a job isn't a right, owning a home isn't a right, owning a car isn't a right? Why do these people assume that others need to provide them with what they demand?
Well put.They aren't striking because going to university it's a right. They are striking because large fees makes university elitist, for the wealthy only.
I agree that university is too easy, and they should get rid of 2/3rds of the lower universities. but increasing the price does not get rid of the thicker students, it just reduces the ability of the top students as the pool of eligible students reduces. If you want to reduce the number of students, find another means of doing it such as increasing the difficulty of exams GCSE-A-Level to Degree, and insist on higher grades to gain entry to universities.
Efbe said:
Really?
They aren't striking because going to university it's a right. They are striking because large fees makes university elitist, for the wealthy only.
I agree that university is too easy, and they should get rid of 2/3rds of the lower universities. but increasing the price does not get rid of the thicker students, it just reduces the ability of the top students as the pool of eligible students reduces. If you want to reduce the number of students, find another means of doing it such as increasing the difficulty of exams GCSE-A-Level to Degree, and insist on higher grades to gain entry to universities.
Do you think tuition fees increased to cut the number of students or something?They aren't striking because going to university it's a right. They are striking because large fees makes university elitist, for the wealthy only.
I agree that university is too easy, and they should get rid of 2/3rds of the lower universities. but increasing the price does not get rid of the thicker students, it just reduces the ability of the top students as the pool of eligible students reduces. If you want to reduce the number of students, find another means of doing it such as increasing the difficulty of exams GCSE-A-Level to Degree, and insist on higher grades to gain entry to universities.
Efbe said:
whoami said:
Silver993tt said:
So, when these naiive students finish university and find there aren't jobs for many of them, will they then go on strike again demanding jobs? Can't they realise that further education isn't a right just as a job isn't a right, owning a home isn't a right, owning a car isn't a right? Why do these people assume that others need to provide them with what they demand?
Well put.They aren't striking because going to university it's a right. They are striking because large fees makes university elitist, for the wealthy only.
I agree that university is too easy, and they should get rid of 2/3rds of the lower universities. but increasing the price does not get rid of the thicker students, it just reduces the ability of the top students as the pool of eligible students reduces. If you want to reduce the number of students, find another means of doing it such as increasing the difficulty of exams GCSE-A-Level to Degree, and insist on higher grades to gain entry to universities.
That makes your elitist entry argument a bit weak.
whoami said:
Efbe said:
whoami said:
Silver993tt said:
So, when these naiive students finish university and find there aren't jobs for many of them, will they then go on strike again demanding jobs? Can't they realise that further education isn't a right just as a job isn't a right, owning a home isn't a right, owning a car isn't a right? Why do these people assume that others need to provide them with what they demand?
Well put.They aren't striking because going to university it's a right. They are striking because large fees makes university elitist, for the wealthy only.
I agree that university is too easy, and they should get rid of 2/3rds of the lower universities. but increasing the price does not get rid of the thicker students, it just reduces the ability of the top students as the pool of eligible students reduces. If you want to reduce the number of students, find another means of doing it such as increasing the difficulty of exams GCSE-A-Level to Degree, and insist on higher grades to gain entry to universities.
That makes your elitist entry argument a bit weak.
also this is still a debt the student has to pay off. it is also not interest free as many people seem to think. it rises above the rate of inflation.
also whether or not the student loan will cover these increased fees is another question. not everyone gets the full loan. in fact many don't. these will be the middle-classes, who wont be able to afford the costs of university, but who also wont be eligible for the full loan.
cottonfoo said:
Efbe said:
Really?
They aren't striking because going to university it's a right. They are striking because large fees makes university elitist, for the wealthy only.
I agree that university is too easy, and they should get rid of 2/3rds of the lower universities. but increasing the price does not get rid of the thicker students, it just reduces the ability of the top students as the pool of eligible students reduces. If you want to reduce the number of students, find another means of doing it such as increasing the difficulty of exams GCSE-A-Level to Degree, and insist on higher grades to gain entry to universities.
Do you think tuition fees increased to cut the number of students or something?They aren't striking because going to university it's a right. They are striking because large fees makes university elitist, for the wealthy only.
I agree that university is too easy, and they should get rid of 2/3rds of the lower universities. but increasing the price does not get rid of the thicker students, it just reduces the ability of the top students as the pool of eligible students reduces. If you want to reduce the number of students, find another means of doing it such as increasing the difficulty of exams GCSE-A-Level to Degree, and insist on higher grades to gain entry to universities.
i dont think they have really thought about the implications at all.
Efbe said:
no i don't. i think they are just trying to make more money. but its not the best way to do that either.
i dont think they have really thought about the implications at all.
That's what you said though. There were a lot of cuts in the spending review, they are trying to save money, not make it. University subsidies were cut and universities allowed to charge more to make up the difference. I think they've given it a lot more thought than you think but that doesn't mean you or anyone else has to like it - I'm sure the thousands that lost their jobs don't like it very much and are in a much worse position than a few students with deferred loans.i dont think they have really thought about the implications at all.
Efbe said:
cottonfoo said:
Efbe said:
Really?
They aren't striking because going to university it's a right. They are striking because large fees makes university elitist, for the wealthy only.
I agree that university is too easy, and they should get rid of 2/3rds of the lower universities. but increasing the price does not get rid of the thicker students, it just reduces the ability of the top students as the pool of eligible students reduces. If you want to reduce the number of students, find another means of doing it such as increasing the difficulty of exams GCSE-A-Level to Degree, and insist on higher grades to gain entry to universities.
Do you think tuition fees increased to cut the number of students or something?They aren't striking because going to university it's a right. They are striking because large fees makes university elitist, for the wealthy only.
I agree that university is too easy, and they should get rid of 2/3rds of the lower universities. but increasing the price does not get rid of the thicker students, it just reduces the ability of the top students as the pool of eligible students reduces. If you want to reduce the number of students, find another means of doing it such as increasing the difficulty of exams GCSE-A-Level to Degree, and insist on higher grades to gain entry to universities.
i dont think they have really thought about the implications at all.
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