Crypto Currency Thread (Vol.2)
Discussion
dimots said:
Bitcoin devotees know that the taxpayer bailed the banks out by printing money and now we are still bailing them out through inflation which is a stealth tax that primarily affects the poorest.
Bitcoin devotees know that saying 'Inflation isn't necessarily bad' in a massively inflationary environment ENTIRELY CREATED by central banks is ridiculous. The poorest are being hurt by the game-playing and posturing of an elite who actually don't know what they are doing!
Bitcoin devotees know that Andrew Bailey is a moron, that Janet Yellen is a moron. They have both made so many mistakes you can use them as a perfect example of why regulation and policymaking is bad and ineffective. Do you really trust that these people know what they are doing, or perhaps you simply share their delusion?
Bitcoin removes idiots like Andrew Bailey from the wheelhouse. You don't have any political or financial influence. You don't have any human error, accounting slipups, fraud, hacks. It's a perfect record, it's not owned by anyone but it can be owned by everyone. It's simply mathematical economics.
You don't get it? Fine...I think you're dumb, I think you're missing out on the biggest opportunity in history, but you do you.
Absolutely agree on the points above. Bernanke, Carney and every other Central Bank heads - all pretty clueless and fuelled inflation. Bitcoin devotees know that saying 'Inflation isn't necessarily bad' in a massively inflationary environment ENTIRELY CREATED by central banks is ridiculous. The poorest are being hurt by the game-playing and posturing of an elite who actually don't know what they are doing!
Bitcoin devotees know that Andrew Bailey is a moron, that Janet Yellen is a moron. They have both made so many mistakes you can use them as a perfect example of why regulation and policymaking is bad and ineffective. Do you really trust that these people know what they are doing, or perhaps you simply share their delusion?
Bitcoin removes idiots like Andrew Bailey from the wheelhouse. You don't have any political or financial influence. You don't have any human error, accounting slipups, fraud, hacks. It's a perfect record, it's not owned by anyone but it can be owned by everyone. It's simply mathematical economics.
You don't get it? Fine...I think you're dumb, I think you're missing out on the biggest opportunity in history, but you do you.
However, the problem is (1) Central Banks / Governments aren't going to ditch the reserve currency for Bitcoin and let that happen.
More importantly, (2) most people are too thick to figure this stuff out to get behind Bitcoin and ditch Fiat.
dimots said:
Bitcoin devotees know that the taxpayer bailed the banks out by printing money and now we are still bailing them out through inflation which is a stealth tax that primarily affects the poorest.
Bitcoin devotees know that saying 'Inflation isn't necessarily bad' in a massively inflationary environment ENTIRELY CREATED by central banks is ridiculous. The poorest are being hurt by the game-playing and posturing of an elite who actually don't know what they are doing!
Bitcoin devotees know that Andrew Bailey is a moron, that Janet Yellen is a moron. They have both made so many mistakes you can use them as a perfect example of why regulation and policymaking is bad and ineffective. Do you really trust that these people know what they are doing, or perhaps you simply share their delusion?
Bitcoin removes idiots like Andrew Bailey from the wheelhouse. You don't have any political or financial influence. You don't have any human error, accounting slipups, fraud, hacks. It's a perfect record, it's not owned by anyone but it can be owned by everyone. It's simply mathematical economics.
You don't get it? Fine...I think you're dumb, I think you're missing out on the biggest opportunity in history, but you do you.
Put like that, yep. I get it. its not without merit. I'd probably throw the tangerine supremo in there as being more relevant than Bailey (Lagarde NOT Trump).Bitcoin devotees know that saying 'Inflation isn't necessarily bad' in a massively inflationary environment ENTIRELY CREATED by central banks is ridiculous. The poorest are being hurt by the game-playing and posturing of an elite who actually don't know what they are doing!
Bitcoin devotees know that Andrew Bailey is a moron, that Janet Yellen is a moron. They have both made so many mistakes you can use them as a perfect example of why regulation and policymaking is bad and ineffective. Do you really trust that these people know what they are doing, or perhaps you simply share their delusion?
Bitcoin removes idiots like Andrew Bailey from the wheelhouse. You don't have any political or financial influence. You don't have any human error, accounting slipups, fraud, hacks. It's a perfect record, it's not owned by anyone but it can be owned by everyone. It's simply mathematical economics.
You don't get it? Fine...I think you're dumb, I think you're missing out on the biggest opportunity in history, but you do you.
But as you know, its system constrained. As are Bailey etc. Why has the ECB all but guaranteed cuts?
I wager, we spend more on system maintenance that BTC market cap (CraigyMC) might have an opinion on that, but I always come back to the why. I believe (shoot me), but its sustain (can kick) or die. I sound like a coward.
I have had beer, apologies if it makes no sense.
g4ry13 said:
Absolutely agree on the points above. Bernanke, Carney and every other Central Bank heads - all pretty clueless and fuelled inflation.
However, the problem is (1) Central Banks / Governments aren't going to ditch the reserve currency for Bitcoin and let that happen.
More importantly, (2) most people are too thick to figure this stuff out to get behind Bitcoin and ditch Fiat.
See no2 is why you lose, time again.However, the problem is (1) Central Banks / Governments aren't going to ditch the reserve currency for Bitcoin and let that happen.
More importantly, (2) most people are too thick to figure this stuff out to get behind Bitcoin and ditch Fiat.
No one is too thick, its a risk adjusted decision. You think its worth throwing the dice, history and the system says its NOT without epic downside. Its NOT idiosyncratic, its digital.
OoopsVoss said:
Anyone who is a BTC devotee, I can kinda respect the belief and ideal. I'm not sure they were at the sharp end of the GFC and Sept 2008. A lot of people who control the global system were and they looked over the abyss; it wasn't good. A $700bn bank nearly took everyone out. That's not even G-SIB today. That's actually a strong argument for decentralised finance, but that wasnt the response. BASLE3 pushed the opposite. V-max. It made what could (maybe) be a containable private sector problem a Sovereign one (looked at US debt numbers lately?). If you have no banking sector you can't move money, the lights go out. The institutions we need to move money cease to exist because banks utility value (as movers of money), is usurped by their actual form and function that is maturity transformation and leverage extension. The utility is completely secondary. That is why SVB depositors got saved and CS got rolled into UBS. I don't want to sound mad conspiracy theorist, but do you think a bank can function on account provision / transfers or its actually doing something else to allow that to happen? If they don't make a margin call on a borrow, do people know how fast that kills them?
Same, and I think 'people' in general have no idea, their is a gulf between for example, you and DA, and me, I follow some of it and know the general terms, some cause and effect but the vast vast majority of even the very well educated know far less about the financial system than even me. All the things you mention will have created headlines, but it'll be read and glazed over, not many even think there is a chance a bank they've never heard of in America could cause another financial crisis. Even if they did then the last financial crisis "wasn't so bad" for most so meh, no biggie the guys in charge will pull some levers, provide some money/support and on we go?These few similar threads on here, have largely the some group of contributors, perhaps a lot more read them but it's just not on most peoples radar? Their life finance wise is just money in, money out, save a bit, or borrow a bit, every month.
Given that the 'events' are continually sorted out with the minimum noticeable fallout, and there is never any talk about how serious it might have otherwise been, as that would likely cause more issues, you can understand why people are so detached/unaware? My concern. knowing the little I do and observing these events. is that eventual 'what if', what if that institution can't be supported, those deposits protected, the borrowing increased etc......my logic says to me that it's how long not if, can the cracks always be papered over well enough.
OoopsVoss said:
g4ry13 said:
Absolutely agree on the points above. Bernanke, Carney and every other Central Bank heads - all pretty clueless and fuelled inflation.
However, the problem is (1) Central Banks / Governments aren't going to ditch the reserve currency for Bitcoin and let that happen.
More importantly, (2) most people are too thick to figure this stuff out to get behind Bitcoin and ditch Fiat.
See no2 is why you lose, time again.However, the problem is (1) Central Banks / Governments aren't going to ditch the reserve currency for Bitcoin and let that happen.
More importantly, (2) most people are too thick to figure this stuff out to get behind Bitcoin and ditch Fiat.
No one is too thick, its a risk adjusted decision. You think its worth throwing the dice, history and the system says its NOT without epic downside. Its NOT idiosyncratic, its digital.
Why would anyone in power (be that political, financial, business/economic) who do very nicely out of the current system want to upset the apple cart and "revolt" against something which pays for their comfortable lifestyles? There has to be a reason for things to change, and if the people who run the system are doing very nicely then it will carry on as it is.
And the people who you describe as being shafted by the current system are too busy worrying about how to go about their daily life than thinking deeply about whether centralised or decentralised currency is better!
And the people who you describe as being shafted by the current system are too busy worrying about how to go about their daily life than thinking deeply about whether centralised or decentralised currency is better!
Condi said:
Why would anyone in power (be that political, financial, business/economic) who do very nicely out of the current system want to upset the apple cart and "revolt" against something which pays for their comfortable lifestyles? There has to be a reason for things to change, and if the people who run the system are doing very nicely then it will carry on as it is.
And the people who you describe as being shafted by the current system are too busy worrying about how to go about their daily life than thinking deeply about whether centralised or decentralised currency is better!
Is that end thread?And the people who you describe as being shafted by the current system are too busy worrying about how to go about their daily life than thinking deeply about whether centralised or decentralised currency is better!
dimots said:
Bitcoin devotees know that Andrew Bailey is a moron, that Janet Yellen is a moron. They have both made so many mistakes you can use them as a perfect example of why regulation and policymaking is bad and ineffective. Do you really trust that these people know what they are doing, or perhaps you simply share their delusion?
I'll see your Andrew Bailey and raise you a Sam Bankman-Fried. Not delusional at all, no sir.g4ry13 said:
The average person is too easily distracted by mindlessly scrolling through instagram, watching Love Island and standing in line for the latest iPhone. They're not going to think about how they're getting shafted and revolt against the existing monetary system.
You aren’t some higher power chap.Do you still live with your parents?
Huge crossover between folk on here and conspiracy theory types IMO.
Edited by okgo on Friday 12th April 12:15
Condi said:
Not at all, incredibly correct on every account as it happens. If you disagree feel free to say why, just saying I'm wrong when what I've posted are indisputable facts makes it look like you have no argument other than you don't like what has been written.
As for why it is important to have freely appreciating and depreciating currencies then it allows a country's economy to become more attractive to investors when it needs to be. You've clearly ignored my example of the Euro, and that currency is only shared across a relatively small number of largely similar countries. Clearly a single world currency is never going to work.
Just because you don't like inflation and debt doesn't mean its a bad thing.
I have given you arguments and examples why I am pro BTC.As for why it is important to have freely appreciating and depreciating currencies then it allows a country's economy to become more attractive to investors when it needs to be. You've clearly ignored my example of the Euro, and that currency is only shared across a relatively small number of largely similar countries. Clearly a single world currency is never going to work.
Just because you don't like inflation and debt doesn't mean its a bad thing.
You just say "not true" and "don't believe this" without explaining anything.
BTC is not a good store of value because of volatility?
That just depends on your timeframe.
Take a look at this chart: try to find the 9 red days were people are not in profit
BTC can't be used directly for making payments?
There have been countless examples on this forum of people buying things using BTC.
BTC is ulseless for international money transfers?
Please give me your BTC adress and I will send you 100 sats right away.
No, wait. I'll do this Saturday night at 23h00 to prove you the system works 24/7
I completely agree that money manipulation and inflation are very usefull for governments but that is exactly how we ended up with the financial s
t show we are in right now.As to inflation "not necesserily being a bad thing" look at this chart and explain to me in which way it's not bad for me as an individual
okgo said:
g4ry13 said:
The average person is too easily distracted by mindlessly scrolling through instagram, watching Love Island and standing in line for the latest iPhone. They're not going to think about how they're getting shafted and revolt against the existing monetary system.
You aren’t some higher power chap.Do you still live with your parents?
Huge crossover between folk on here and conspiracy theory types IMO.
Edited by okgo on Friday 12th April 12:15
And no, I live with my wife thanks.
If you don't wish to get involved then stay that way. But no need to try and be rude about people.
okgo said:
It’s just so obvious though - all this st about people being blinded is just the same tripe as those that believe in the on landing not happening or Twin Towers being a set up.
It's pretty obvious that majority of the public is oblivious to what's going on and are easily led. They are incapable of making well informed decisions. If it's not being pushed down their throat by media outlets then they won't know about it.t about people being blinded is just the same tripe as those that believe in the on landing not happening or Twin Towers being a set up.ERIKM400 said:
I completely agree that money manipulation and inflation are very usefull for governments but that is exactly how we ended up with the financial st show we are in right now.
As to inflation "not necesserily being a bad thing" look at this chart and explain to me in which way it's not bad for me as an individual
O/T but I thought the decline in the purchasing power of the dollar was due to coming off the gold standard in 1971. Not only does that event not merit a mention on the chart but it is clear that the dollar had been reducing in real value since Bretton Woods.t show we are in right now.As to inflation "not necesserily being a bad thing" look at this chart and explain to me in which way it's not bad for me as an individual
We live and learn...
ERIKM400 said:
BTC is not a good store of value because of volatility?
That just depends on your timeframe.
Take a look at this chart: try to find the 9 red days were people are not in profit
So you are looking at in investment timelines?. Its not a FIAT replacement. Here is the 3 day chart: That just depends on your timeframe.
Take a look at this chart: try to find the 9 red days were people are not in profit
Scootersp said:
What I interpreted from those links is that the tech is the same, and other scarce digital assets have(?)/could be made and made even more scarce (I don't know specific examples), but they would not be better and so people stay with Bitcoin, it's the preferred one, it has the network, is uniquely popular, but not actually unique? So you might be say it's the only viable scarce digital asset?
"Pre-set scarcity by Satoshi" I have a problem with pre-set/determined scarcity, the scarcity being a decision? When you create things you can play around with scarcity, alter the supply as you wish try and encourage demand due to the rarity, If he'd set 1 million would the bitcoin price today be where it is, it would have been over 20 times as scarce?
It's perhaps scarce now but Satoshi, they say might have mined up to nearly 1/20th of all the Bitcoin at a low low fiat input price, perhaps he deserves it for his genius but I don't think the answer to fiat is something that you don't have work to gain, you just buy and wait? Bitcoin can work as a stable transacting platform, but the fluctuating price and upward trend certainty vibe for all, cannot work forever, it has to have a limit.
I am happy to watch from the sidelines and see others play their cards as they see them, if they keep winning so be it, the courage of their convictions to go for it, is like mine not too, no one horse wins all the races, I sit this out as it just never feels right to move in. Just like I suspect you'd never move into metals regardless of the future price action there, you'll stick to your crypto almost come what may?
For BTC to work the developer(s) had to make a very delicate compromise between cryptografic security, decentralisation, speed and anonimity."Pre-set scarcity by Satoshi" I have a problem with pre-set/determined scarcity, the scarcity being a decision? When you create things you can play around with scarcity, alter the supply as you wish try and encourage demand due to the rarity, If he'd set 1 million would the bitcoin price today be where it is, it would have been over 20 times as scarce?
It's perhaps scarce now but Satoshi, they say might have mined up to nearly 1/20th of all the Bitcoin at a low low fiat input price, perhaps he deserves it for his genius but I don't think the answer to fiat is something that you don't have work to gain, you just buy and wait? Bitcoin can work as a stable transacting platform, but the fluctuating price and upward trend certainty vibe for all, cannot work forever, it has to have a limit.
I am happy to watch from the sidelines and see others play their cards as they see them, if they keep winning so be it, the courage of their convictions to go for it, is like mine not too, no one horse wins all the races, I sit this out as it just never feels right to move in. Just like I suspect you'd never move into metals regardless of the future price action there, you'll stick to your crypto almost come what may?
The reason why nobody has (yet) come up with a better solution is that when you try to improve one of these aspects, you are going to sacrifice the other.
I think you do not really understand the importance of the capped 21 milion BTC supply.
This is THE insurance against manipulation and inflation of BTC.
Satoshi has mined the first million BTC because someone had to bootstrap the system. After that it was paramount that he (they) disappeared completely and forever because otherwise he (they) would have created a centralized point of potential failure (himself) in a system that is designed to be completely decentralized.
This also means that he (they) can never touch these BTC ever again, they had to be sacrificed.
I am not a BTC or crypto maximalist. I do own precious metals, in self custody of course
, I do have money in pension funds and other investments, I own real estate.But I believe that at the moment BTC and crypto offer a generational opportunity for investment, just like you would like to have bought Apple, Microsoft, Amazon and a couple of other stocks years ago for a couple of € - £. But just as most tech company stocks have gone bust, so will most crypto coins because there's a lot of rubbish out there (hint: don't buy dog coins, especially not if they're wearing a hat)
I will and do take profits from my crypto holdings but will hold on to the majority of BTC I own.
g4ry13 said:
The average person is too easily distracted by mindlessly scrolling through instagram, watching Love Island and standing in line for the latest iPhone. They're not going to think about how they're getting shafted and revolt against the existing monetary system.
Yes, yes, people should revolt and place their wealth into a money system that requires power and internet connection at all times. Not to mention your purchasing power could get eroded 25% between your front door and corner shop. You might think everyone else in society is a lemon, but you seen to have no understanding of the basics of the current system that allows BTC to even exist (you do pay the power companies in USD/GBP etc etc).Any more advice?
Crypto was developed to facilite transfers of funds from Point A to Point B.
A network for people who needed to pass on money from one country to another.
When it was developed no Wise was there, no Airtm, Uphold or netteller.
Bitcoin his too slow to do that job, people use it to store money value.
Litecoin is much faster, Litecoin was developed from the same source,
What here is discussed is the lawless room for people promising you wealth, and as most people promising you wealth mean their wealth. There you go. Exchanges fill the same space the developer crew wished to avoid.
A network for people who needed to pass on money from one country to another.
When it was developed no Wise was there, no Airtm, Uphold or netteller.
Bitcoin his too slow to do that job, people use it to store money value.
Litecoin is much faster, Litecoin was developed from the same source,
What here is discussed is the lawless room for people promising you wealth, and as most people promising you wealth mean their wealth. There you go. Exchanges fill the same space the developer crew wished to avoid.
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