Crypto Currency Thread (Vol.2)
Discussion
r3g said:
None. He and the other 3 luddites over the past couple of pages wouldn't even know how to set up a wallet, let alone figure out what to do with it once done.
r3g said:
If you're less than 5 figures USD total then personally I wouldn't worry about leaving them in exchange wallets. For large amounts of a single coin/token, use their native wallet, but as Gary says, you'll likely need umpteen GBs of disk space to store the ledger and be aware that if you don't sync it regularly with the blockchain, when you come to move your coin/token at some point months down the line, it will probably take several hours for your wallet to sync before you can do anything. That can be really annoying if the price suddenly spikes and you want to sell immediately..
I used the phrase “educate me” to be polite. The above is in fact total nonsense. Quite audacious to call people luddites when you are so confused yourself. Still waiting for your explanation of how Metamask isn’t a wallet too.
Edited by dmahon on Friday 1st July 06:26
r3g said:
He (they) don't. He claims to have been asking the "same questions" since the beginning (whenever that was - seems to be about 10 years ago looking at the volume numbers). If you genuinely had an interest and wanted to educate yourself, you would get straight onto google and do your research where you would be presented with tens of thousands of informative websites listing the pros and cons from both sides, after which you could form an opinion whether it's for you or not. The last thing you'd do if you actually possessed a brain would be to seek financial/investment advice and opinions from people on a hobby motoring forum. 
The fact that 10 years have gone by and he (they) still haven't bothered to go and educate themselves, instead preferring to (allegedly) seek the opinions of forums members obviously shows they have no serious intent or interest and is nothing more than a decade-long endless trolling of any members who have a religious belief in its future.
If it isn't trolling (which it clearly is imo) then after the initial back-and-forth discussion about intrinsic value and all that nonsense in the very first thread, a simple "I respect your opinion but I think we should agree to disagree" conclusion should have been reached and the people in the 'against' camp vacated the thread and leave those people be who believe in its future and like to take a punt on random shtcoins.
It's akin to going into the football mega thread on here when you hate football and making posts every.single.day about how sht it is, what is the point of it, it's just kicking a ball around a field pointlessly, how you hate it, where is its use case? etc. It wouldn't be tolerated by the mods. Same if you were posting in a BMW thread saying how much you hate their cars, they're all sht, you'll lose all your money, what is the point of them when you can buy a Ford? Again, wouldn't be tolerated. So why is it tolerated here? It's the behaviour of childish, immature, attention-seeking teenagers and utterly pathetic.
That's a very poor analogy, allow me to help you with it.The fact that 10 years have gone by and he (they) still haven't bothered to go and educate themselves, instead preferring to (allegedly) seek the opinions of forums members obviously shows they have no serious intent or interest and is nothing more than a decade-long endless trolling of any members who have a religious belief in its future.
If it isn't trolling (which it clearly is imo) then after the initial back-and-forth discussion about intrinsic value and all that nonsense in the very first thread, a simple "I respect your opinion but I think we should agree to disagree" conclusion should have been reached and the people in the 'against' camp vacated the thread and leave those people be who believe in its future and like to take a punt on random shtcoins.
It's akin to going into the football mega thread on here when you hate football and making posts every.single.day about how sht it is, what is the point of it, it's just kicking a ball around a field pointlessly, how you hate it, where is its use case? etc. It wouldn't be tolerated by the mods. Same if you were posting in a BMW thread saying how much you hate their cars, they're all sht, you'll lose all your money, what is the point of them when you can buy a Ford? Again, wouldn't be tolerated. So why is it tolerated here? It's the behaviour of childish, immature, attention-seeking teenagers and utterly pathetic.
digger_R said:
It's the same old. If you've formed an opinion about it, good for you. Act on it. Most people do that in life.
^There's a thread in the BMW forum about a magical new device. It costs £10,000 and is a block that weighs about a tonne that you put in the boot of your BMW 318i and it makes it go faster. Many say faster than a Lamborghini! It's got some complex electronics - they're not connected to the car in any way, and it's packaged smartly, even got a BMW logo on it.
Lots of people have rushed out and bought one. There's a bloke who's tried one out and says his car is DEFINITELY faster. But he seems to have only experienced it on a steep downhill.
People like Condi are asking a simple question - that makes no sense, how could it possibly work, it defies the laws of physics?
People like me are questioning the thought process of those who simply belive the marketing claims.
People like you, who've installed two of them at a cost of £20,000, are upset at the discussion about a new BMW accessory in a BMW discussion forum because you just want to believe it works without these pesky questions so are insulting anyone who questions it.
Deos that help?
digger_R said:
There are a lot of people who simply won't engage in boring repetitive waffle - the same as in real life.
Personally I find it bizarre that someone would dislike something so much - to hang around bashing it day after day - call me strange but I would just go out, enjoy the sun - do something nice.
Each to their own!
There are also a fair few of us who understand what a market is.
It goes up and down - you can profit from both sides. There seem to be some people that simply think you can only profit if the price goes up - maybe that's just the measure of financial literacy?
The whole idea of speculation is that you understand there is a risk, you measure it - and act according to your risk profile. There are many people who have/are profiting nicely from it.
Agreed. But when such a market starts to fall back those folk posting the repetitive waffle evaporate as we can see going on here. We monitor crypto hype for marketing purposes and the turn away has been big now we're back to 2017 but still without a use. Personally I find it bizarre that someone would dislike something so much - to hang around bashing it day after day - call me strange but I would just go out, enjoy the sun - do something nice.
Each to their own!
There are also a fair few of us who understand what a market is.
It goes up and down - you can profit from both sides. There seem to be some people that simply think you can only profit if the price goes up - maybe that's just the measure of financial literacy?
The whole idea of speculation is that you understand there is a risk, you measure it - and act according to your risk profile. There are many people who have/are profiting nicely from it.
When it comes to finding it bizarre that an individual dislikes something so much to hang around bashing something, you can't ever post something like that without understanding there are two opposing but identical sides. I'm not sure I've seen many of those on the religiously disliking side on PH. Most people just seem to be questioning either the product or the made up waffle being repeated by acolytes. It's no different from the true believers of the cult of Musk who rant at anyone who might dare ask if Tesla makes anything other than a normal car. It's the raw fear of a single sentence bringing the house of cards down. It always happens when something has no foundations.
Markets go up and they go down. Spot on. And of course everyone knows this but few like or accept it. Retail is always long. It's why they rage at shorters or expel members who sell up. It's why you have HODLers appearing as a religion. As we know most only finally accept that markets go down once it has happened and they are faced with the only option being a desperate hope that it might go back up. You can see the pathetic hope of gamblers in all the media twaddle about Mystic Meg's 20k level for BTC. Zero rational bar desperate hope. Desperate hope that enough people will believe in this mystical number and have enough cash to pour in even more to try and reverse global fundamentals. It's just insane gambling not understanding that markets go up and they go down.
Almost no one understands risk and that has never been more evident in the modern retail market. Price action of the last few years shows unarguably the underlying and always present reality and truth that the retail market exists on the fundamental misunderstanding of risk.
Just why do you think that to get women to gamble you need to use fun rewards but retail financial markets are 99% blokes? Men are genetically programmed to not calculate risk correctly. It's the backbone of progress. It's what underpins human civilisation. At the one end it's what drives a man to get on a rickety boat and discover a new land (most drown obvs) at the other end it's what makes them poke their wiener through a hole in the wall at a service station crapper.
You fully understand that what you have written is a wish rather than a reality.
One of the fundamental keys to protecting downside and making returns is to stick to the golden rule which is that your risk assessment will be wrong because you are genetically designed to be wrong.
Do you think the retail crypto market is full of people underweight or overweight in crypto?
It's not bashing. That's a victim's battle cry. It's just other discussing realities or asking questions because they think they aren't understanding something.
digger_R said:
There are a lot of people who simply won't engage in boring repetitive waffle - the same as in real life.
Personally I find it bizarre that someone would dislike something so much - to hang around bashing it day after day - call me strange but I would just go out, enjoy the sun - do something nice.
Each to their own!
There are also a fair few of us who understand what a market is.
It goes up and down - you can profit from both sides. There seem to be some people that simply think you can only profit if the price goes up - maybe that's just the measure of financial literacy?
The whole idea of speculation is that you understand there is a risk, you measure it - and act according to your risk profile. There are many people who have/are profiting nicely from it.
Agreed. But when such a market starts to fall back those folk posting the repetitive waffle evaporate as we can see going on here. We monitor crypto hype for marketing purposes and the turn away has been big now we're back to 2017 but still without a use. Personally I find it bizarre that someone would dislike something so much - to hang around bashing it day after day - call me strange but I would just go out, enjoy the sun - do something nice.
Each to their own!
There are also a fair few of us who understand what a market is.
It goes up and down - you can profit from both sides. There seem to be some people that simply think you can only profit if the price goes up - maybe that's just the measure of financial literacy?
The whole idea of speculation is that you understand there is a risk, you measure it - and act according to your risk profile. There are many people who have/are profiting nicely from it.
When it comes to finding it bizarre that an individual dislikes something so much to hang around bashing something, you can't ever post something like that without understanding there are two opposing but identical sides. I'm not sure I've seen many of those on the religiously disliking side on PH. Most people just seem to be questioning either the product or the made up waffle being repeated by acolytes. It's no different from the true believers of the cult of Musk who rant at anyone who might dare ask if Tesla makes anything other than a normal car. It's the raw fear of a single sentence bringing the house of cards down. It always happens when something has no foundations.
Markets go up and they go down. Spot on. And of course everyone knows this but few like or accept it. Retail is always long. It's why they rage at shorters or expel members who sell up. It's why you have HODLers appearing as a religion. As we know most only finally accept that markets go down once it has happened and they are faced with the only option being a desperate hope that it might go back up. You can see the pathetic hope of gamblers in all the media twaddle about Mystic Meg's 20k level for BTC. Zero rational bar desperate hope. Desperate hope that enough people will believe in this mystical number and have enough cash to pour in even more to try and reverse global fundamentals. It's just insane gambling not understanding that markets go up and they go down.
Almost no one understands risk and that has never been more evident in the modern retail market. Price action of the last few years shows unarguably the underlying and always present reality and truth that the retail market exists on the fundamental misunderstanding of risk.
Just why do you think that to get women to gamble you need to use fun rewards but retail financial markets are 99% blokes? Men are genetically programmed to not calculate risk correctly. It's the backbone of progress. It's what underpins human civilisation. At the one end it's what drives a man to get on a rickety boat and discover a new land (most drown obvs) at the other end it's what makes them poke their wiener through a hole in the wall at a service station crapper.
You fully understand that what you have written is a wish rather than a reality.
One of the fundamental keys to protecting downside and making returns is to stick to the golden rule which is that your risk assessment will be wrong because you are genetically designed to be wrong.
Do you think the retail crypto market is full of people underweight or overweight in crypto?
It's not bashing. That's a victim's battle cry. It's just other discussing realities or asking questions because they think they aren't understanding something.
That sort of makes sense DA… but have you not seen the latest from Deutsche’s analysts?
Bitcoin is apparently not the new gold, but rather the “digital diamond” and will hit USD 28k later this year (presumably when wives/girlfriends/mistresses suggest we should be buying them some).
They’re a proper bank with (moderately) shiny offices so they must know what they’re talking about…
Bitcoin is apparently not the new gold, but rather the “digital diamond” and will hit USD 28k later this year (presumably when wives/girlfriends/mistresses suggest we should be buying them some).
They’re a proper bank with (moderately) shiny offices so they must know what they’re talking about…
dmahon said:
I used the phrase “educate me” to be polite. The above is in fact total nonsense. Quite audacious to call people luddites when you are so confused yourself.
What on earth are you talking? Have you actually USED a native wallet or in fact ever bought any crypto because it sounds to me like you're getting all your "facts" from google without any actual experience. Here's one of the common ones for a common coin - Daedalus. Go download the wallet, put some ADA in it, leave it for a few weeks/months, then try to move it out and let me know how it goes for you. The same applies to every other offline wallet, because as it's offline how is it going to keep an up-to-date ledger of all the transactions that have taken place since it was last connected to the internet? If you are using wallets that are instantly synced, then obviously they are online wallets and not offline ones. If it's online wallet or one with a permanent connection then that totally defeats the whole purpose of using it as someone else is the custodian ie. not your keys, so if they disappear from the internet, so does your crypto.Ari said:
That's a very poor analogy, allow me to help you with it.
There's a thread in the BMW forum about a magical new device. It costs £10,000 and is a block that weighs about a tonne that you put in the boot of your BMW 318i and it makes it go faster. Many say faster than a Lamborghini! It's got some complex electronics - they're not connected to the car in any way, and it's packaged smartly, even got a BMW logo on it.
Lots of people have rushed out and bought one. There's a bloke who's tried one out and says his car is DEFINITELY faster. But he seems to have only experienced it on a steep downhill.
People like Condi are asking a simple question - that makes no sense, how could it possibly work, it defies the laws of physics?
People like me are questioning the thought process of those who simply belive the marketing claims.
People like you, who've installed two of them at a cost of £20,000, are upset at the discussion about a new BMW accessory in a BMW discussion forum because you just want to believe it works without these pesky questions so are insulting anyone who questions it.
Deos that help?
I have no idea what you are talking either. It's such a load of incoherent rambling nonsense it doesn't even make any sense. Try reading what I wrote which is perfect comparison to what you are doing here with your constant trolling pretending to play dumb not knowing what crypto is in some childish and immature attempt to get someone to take the bait and explain it to you for the 100th time.There's a thread in the BMW forum about a magical new device. It costs £10,000 and is a block that weighs about a tonne that you put in the boot of your BMW 318i and it makes it go faster. Many say faster than a Lamborghini! It's got some complex electronics - they're not connected to the car in any way, and it's packaged smartly, even got a BMW logo on it.
Lots of people have rushed out and bought one. There's a bloke who's tried one out and says his car is DEFINITELY faster. But he seems to have only experienced it on a steep downhill.
People like Condi are asking a simple question - that makes no sense, how could it possibly work, it defies the laws of physics?
People like me are questioning the thought process of those who simply belive the marketing claims.
People like you, who've installed two of them at a cost of £20,000, are upset at the discussion about a new BMW accessory in a BMW discussion forum because you just want to believe it works without these pesky questions so are insulting anyone who questions it.
Deos that help?
r3g said:
What on earth are you talking? Have you actually USED a native wallet or in fact ever bought any crypto because it sounds to me like you're getting all your "facts" from google without any actual experience. Here's one of the common ones for a common coin - Daedalus. Go download the wallet, put some ADA in it, leave it for a few weeks/months, then try to move it out and let me know how it goes for you. The same applies to every other offline wallet, because as it's offline how is it going to keep an up-to-date ledger of all the transactions that have taken place since it was last connected to the internet? If you are using wallets that are instantly synced, then obviously they are online wallets and not offline ones. If it's online wallet or one with a permanent connection then that totally defeats the whole purpose of using it as someone else is the custodian ie. not your keys, so if they disappear from the internet, so does your crypto.
I’ve held Crypto for years and currently working on a contract as Web3 developer. I don’t know about Daedalus, but let’s talk about something niche like ETH and the thousands of ERC 20 tokens. The transactions and balances are stored on the blockchain, your wallet (e.g Metamask) holds your private keys, and nothing needs to sync into any wallet. I have never heard of the concept of an offline or online wallet. We obviously have hot/cold wallets but that’s about where you store your keys and still nothing needs to sync.
You are some combination of confused, talking rubbish and picking niche technologies to make a point, and then dare to call people luddites who try to engage you in a discussion.
I love Crypto but god some of the advocates are nauseating, repeating the same arguments parrot fashion with a total lack of understanding of what they are advocating for.
dmahon said:
I’ve held Crypto for years and currently working on a contract as Web3 developer.
I don’t know about Daedalus, but let’s talk about something niche like ETH and the thousands of ERC 20 tokens. The transactions and balances are stored on the blockchain, your wallet (e.g Metamask) holds your private keys, and nothing needs to sync into any wallet. I have never heard of the concept of an offline or online wallet. We obviously have hot/cold wallets but that’s about where you store your keys and still nothing needs to sync.
You are some combination of confused, talking rubbish and picking niche technologies to make a point, and then dare to call people luddites who try to engage you in a discussion.
I love Crypto but god some of the advocates are nauseating, repeating the same arguments parrot fashion with a total lack of understanding of what they are advocating for.
You've just demonstrated right there that you haven't got a clue what you're tallking about. Metamask is obviously an online wallet. Daedalus is not. Go learn the difference before spouting more rubbish.I don’t know about Daedalus, but let’s talk about something niche like ETH and the thousands of ERC 20 tokens. The transactions and balances are stored on the blockchain, your wallet (e.g Metamask) holds your private keys, and nothing needs to sync into any wallet. I have never heard of the concept of an offline or online wallet. We obviously have hot/cold wallets but that’s about where you store your keys and still nothing needs to sync.
You are some combination of confused, talking rubbish and picking niche technologies to make a point, and then dare to call people luddites who try to engage you in a discussion.
I love Crypto but god some of the advocates are nauseating, repeating the same arguments parrot fashion with a total lack of understanding of what they are advocating for.
r3g said:
You've just demonstrated right there that you haven't got a clue what you're tallking about. Metamask is obviously an online wallet. Daedalus is not. Go learn the difference before spouting more rubbish.
I don’t know why you are picking some random wallet to make your prounouncements, when the vast majority of the ecosystem doesn’t work that way. Metamask holds your keys (hot wallet on your device) but is not what you described as an “online” wallet holding any blockchain transactions.
Can’t be bothered to argue with you because you are both wrong and rude, an exhausting combination.
dmahon said:
r3g said:
You've just demonstrated right there that you haven't got a clue what you're tallking about. Metamask is obviously an online wallet. Daedalus is not. Go learn the difference before spouting more rubbish.
I don’t know why you are picking some random wallet to make your prounouncements, when the vast majority of the ecosystem doesn’t work that way. Metamask holds your keys (hot wallet on your device) but is not what you described as an “online” wallet holding any blockchain transactions.
Can’t be bothered to argue with you because you are both wrong and rude, an exhausting combination.
r3g said:
Likewise. I'll await your apology for wrongly accusing me of talking rubbish when you've now realised I was 100% correct with my comments about offline wallets needs to download the ledger first before you can do anything. Too many clueless armchair experts in this thread.
You’ll be waiting a long time as that isn’t even what we discussed. I called you out for sweeping incorrect statements which you appear to have made based on one niche technology, and not Bitcoin or Ethereum and ERC 20 tokens. I can hold my keys in Metamask wallet, have full self custody, and make a transaction in 30 seconds, even in points of market volitility. Metamask is a wallet and no syncing happens anywhere. The exact same point I correctly made days ago before being called a Luddite.
r3g said:
It's the behaviour of childish, immature, attention-seeking teenagers and utterly pathetic.
r3g said:
Try reading what I wrote which is perfect comparison to what you are doing here with your constant trolling pretending to play dumb not knowing what crypto is in some childish and immature attempt to get someone to take the bait and explain it to you for the 100th time.
r3g said:
You've just demonstrated right there that you haven't got a clue what you're tallking about. Metamask is obviously an online wallet. Daedalus is not. Go learn the difference before spouting more rubbish.
r3g said:
Too many clueless armchair experts in this thread.
I'm afraid you're coming across like a petulant toddler who's been told that he's tired and it's past his bedtime. Try dialling it down a notch with the flailing around trying to insult anyone pointing out facts that you don't like, take a deep breath, and try to read and understand what you're being told.
There's a lot of good advice in this thread, you just might find it helpful.
the issue with anything like financial instruments is confidence amongst users or more importantly potential users. If the population at large lose confidence in crypto then investors are f
ked. It was only the non-investor public at large suddenly buying in that saw the price skyrocket. That's a far bigger pump than even the biggest whales. We are relying on the unwashed piling in, and if they don't then we're just left post hype cycle in a lull, with only those who really believe it is the future for actual currency... and those people are the minority of the crypto kids of the last 5 years. Maybe this is what needs to happen in order to stabilise coins into what they would need to be in order to be serious contenders for decentralised money. So, it may never 'come back'. There is absolutely no evidence to indicate that if it does come back, BTC for example will reach higher levels than before. That is, unless the bubble can somehow be reinflated.
ked. It was only the non-investor public at large suddenly buying in that saw the price skyrocket. That's a far bigger pump than even the biggest whales. We are relying on the unwashed piling in, and if they don't then we're just left post hype cycle in a lull, with only those who really believe it is the future for actual currency... and those people are the minority of the crypto kids of the last 5 years. Maybe this is what needs to happen in order to stabilise coins into what they would need to be in order to be serious contenders for decentralised money. So, it may never 'come back'. There is absolutely no evidence to indicate that if it does come back, BTC for example will reach higher levels than before. That is, unless the bubble can somehow be reinflated. Blown2CV said:
It was only the non-investor public at large suddenly buying in that saw the price skyrocket. That's a far bigger pump than even the biggest whales.
I'd say it was the diametric opposite. Retail has been nibbling, big players have been scooping up. Retail was less relevant than ever for the major markets compared to olden times. Now the big players are largely proving to be useless tossers running on thin air we're seeing what's actually what.
bloomen said:
I'd say it was the diametric opposite. Retail has been nibbling, big players have been scooping up. Retail was less relevant than ever for the major markets compared to olden times.
Now the big players are largely proving to be useless tossers running on thin air we're seeing what's actually what.
The problem seems to have been people/companies with Bitcoin borrowing against that Bitcoin to buy more Bitcoin. Now the big players are largely proving to be useless tossers running on thin air we're seeing what's actually what.
Meanwhile the people lending the capital were securing it against their Bitcoin and borrowing money from elsewhere within the crypto ecosystem which also had a large exposure to the underlying.
A house of cards build on rather soft sand.
bloomen said:
Blown2CV said:
It was only the non-investor public at large suddenly buying in that saw the price skyrocket. That's a far bigger pump than even the biggest whales.
I'd say it was the diametric opposite. Retail has been nibbling, big players have been scooping up. Retail was less relevant than ever for the major markets compared to olden times. Now the big players are largely proving to be useless tossers running on thin air we're seeing what's actually what.
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