When/Will house prices cool down?

[DonkeyApple]

havoc said:

So he's earning a London wage but isn't happy he's got to pay to commute into London from his cheap house outside London?!?

FFS...this is the problem. This is why house prices aren't cooling down.

fk him. fk that whole attitude. If the job is remote, then the salary should be commensurate with remote working. If it's in-office, then you take the job knowing you need to commute, you don't take it then bh about it, because that's EXACTLY the same self-centered, entitled attitude that sees people moving near to racing circuits then bhing about the noise to get the circuit shut down!

Is that you?!?

It's mad isn't it. I've not noticed this amongst my peers but have amongst some younger people. A few have genuinely believed that they were being oppressed by Evil Corp because they now lived 2+ hours from the office and it was costing more to go in. But we have created these monsters by spending years pandering to ever increasing work place lunacies that forever indulged this group's demands.

The flipside is that these folks were the first tinned during the layoffs at the end of last year. They're over priced trouble makers so all set to be dispatched the moment a good enough reason crops up.

The trouble with the public sector is that in many areas the workers are less disposable. The wife of a colleague hasn't done any actual work for over a year as she has declined to go to the office and her line manager appears to have completely disappeared so there's no one to report to. It actually sounded insane when he was explaining it but there seemed no logic in retiring when she was being paid a full salary but no one was engaging with her or asking her to do anything. Sounded like a dream job.

[Pit Pony]

okgo said:

York one of the few places you could reasonably move from the South and not feel like a complete outsider I expect. Plus it’s cheap for anyone from London.

Mate of mine bought a big old house up there with the sale of a 2 bed in Fulham.

My son went to University there.
I thought it no more expensive than the posh bits of Merseyside or Manchester (Formby, Woolton, West Kirby, Didsbury, Wilmslow), which I think are overpriced. But obviously alot cheaper than London.
I think within computing distance of both Universities, housing is overpriced, due to student HMOs, of which i saw were higher quality than say Cardiff where my daughter went. Once you get 5 miles out, i think prices drop like a stone.
He did meet a lot of students who were from "The south" including his wife, from Royal Tunbridge Wells.
York is like a Larger RTW in my opinion.
Lovely Town. 365 pubs.
I remember a quirky place called Evil Eye.

[Pit Pony]

Hondashark said:

RayDonovan said:

nickfrog said:

RayDonovan said:

Super slow in my town (just north of York)

Everything feels expensive

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/146721944

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/143726597

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/145782668

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/145455014

Appreciate some of these haven't been on the market that long, but just feels that some sellers are still in a COVID frenzy

You get a lot for your money where you live!

Compared to the South - yes.

They'd all be about £300k round here. (North of the East Midlands.)

They'd be more or less that price on the "Right" roads in L37, Formby, less as you get further away from the National Trust Woods and Beach. Half that price, if you cross the Bypass.

[Shnozz]

Hondashark said:

RayDonovan said:

nickfrog said:

RayDonovan said:

Super slow in my town (just north of York)

Everything feels expensive

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/146721944

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/143726597

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/145782668

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/145455014

Appreciate some of these haven't been on the market that long, but just feels that some sellers are still in a COVID frenzy

You get a lot for your money where you live!

Compared to the South - yes.

They'd all be about £300k round here. (North of the East Midlands.)

It’s just a moast from nick frog.

[princeperch]

DonkeyApple said:

havoc said:

So he's earning a London wage but isn't happy he's got to pay to commute into London from his cheap house outside London?!?

FFS...this is the problem. This is why house prices aren't cooling down.

fk him. fk that whole attitude. If the job is remote, then the salary should be commensurate with remote working. If it's in-office, then you take the job knowing you need to commute, you don't take it then bh about it, because that's EXACTLY the same self-centered, entitled attitude that sees people moving near to racing circuits then bhing about the noise to get the circuit shut down!

Is that you?!?

It's mad isn't it. I've not noticed this amongst my peers but have amongst some younger people. A few have genuinely believed that they were being oppressed by Evil Corp because they now lived 2+ hours from the office and it was costing more to go in. But we have created these monsters by spending years pandering to ever increasing work place lunacies that forever indulged this group's demands.

The flipside is that these folks were the first tinned during the layoffs at the end of last year. They're over priced trouble makers so all set to be dispatched the moment a good enough reason crops up.

The trouble with the public sector is that in many areas the workers are less disposable. The wife of a colleague hasn't done any actual work for over a year as she has declined to go to the office and her line manager appears to have completely disappeared so there's no one to report to. It actually sounded insane when he was explaining it but there seemed no logic in retiring when she was being paid a full salary but no one was engaging with her or asking her to do anything. Sounded like a dream job.

I do think the public sector merits special mention.

Where I work the admin staff/paralegals, earn about 25 grand.thats to work in a zone 1 location. They could double their salary by doing the same job in the city. Most do realise this and leave after a year, or otherwise try and hang around for a training contract. The churn is unbelievable.

Re the higher paid staff, a lot were recruited pre and just after covid. Everyone was happy with this. You could get good quality lawyers for 55-70k dependant on their experience and we sold ourselves as a location neutral location. I. E work from where you want within reason. People therefore moved to Scotland or deep suffolk or the south coast. The money worked and everyone was happy.

Jacob rees mog and the cabinet office didnt like that because their buildings were empty. But what they don't understand is that if you give people a decade of 1pc pay rises and then realise you can supplement the lack of pay rises by capping their commuting costs, the whole machine can carry lurching on. The alternative is you end up with rich people who can afford to work as a lawyer or an actuary im government because they've been a partner in the city before or have family money.

If you give a decade of 1pc pay rises (which means people are 30 to 40pc worse off taking into account inflation) then people will either leave if they can or work to rule with zero goodwill or unpaid overtime. Its a clear part of why the public sector now has a productivity problem in many parts.

What needs to happen is they need to move the civil service away from Whitehall and let people work from home more often if they arent going to give proper payrises. There is no need to make anyone redundant - just sell the whitehall buildings. There is no need for them and forcing peolle to spend 700 a month to sit on teams that they could do from home is madness.

And I DONT want to hear about the golden pension which I think realistically ill only be able to draw when im 70 and may only have 5 or 6 years left.

[Mr Whippy]

princeperch said:

If you give a decade of 1pc pay rises (which means people are 30 to 40pc worse off taking into account inflation) then people will either leave if they can or work to rule with zero goodwill or unpaid overtime. Its a clear part of why the public sector now has a productivity problem in many parts.

What needs to happen is they need to move the civil service away from Whitehall and let people work from home more often if they arent going to give proper payrises. There is no need to make anyone redundant - just sell the whitehall buildings. There is no need for them and forcing peolle to spend 700 a month to sit on teams that they could do from home is madness.

Getting paid to sit on Teams all day sounds a part of the problem.

Roll on ChatGPT5 for the bulk of these jobs I hope.

People paid up talk and make decisions all day, and then get n the first day of it working it doesn’t work because of unintended consequences


I get sophisticated decision making and planning, but without the safety net of capitalist efficiency it’s just a road to bloat and rubbish outcomes.

[princeperch]

Its also worth mentioning that the london weighting element of public sector pay is laughable. I think I get paid 3k more than my counterpart in darlington!

Id still rather cut off all my arms and legs than live and work in Darlington, however, these are not 200k jobs that you have the spare slack to pay for the commute with. These are jobs that can literally be done anywhere, and its nothing more than a vanity exercise that the civil service remains in whitehall. They really do need to accept they cannot pay london proper salaries and move the whole thing somewhere cheaper, or accept people are settled where they are and let them wfh.

[James-gbg1e]

Hondashark said:

RayDonovan said:

nickfrog said:

RayDonovan said:

Super slow in my town (just north of York)

Everything feels expensive

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/146721944

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/143726597

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/145782668

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/145455014

Appreciate some of these haven't been on the market that long, but just feels that some sellers are still in a COVID frenzy

You get a lot for your money where you live!

Compared to the South - yes.

They'd all be about £300k round here. (North of the East Midlands.)

No idea where in the Midlands you speak of but that first house (didn't check them up) which as a tonne of character definitely isn't a 300k house in CV13/LE10 areas that I know very well.

They don't seem far off the money relative to a 3.5 bed new build white sh*tbox still shifting for 450k... Oh but they also give you a Beko dishwasher in with that!

[havoc]

princeperch said:

And I DONT want to hear about the golden pension which I think realistically ill only be able to draw when im 70 and may only have 5 or 6 years left.

If you think you'll be 70 to draw down then you've got to be late-20 / early 30s. Which means your life expectancy is c.85 according to the ONS, so that's still 15 years retirement, which is better than your great-grandfathers who retired at 65 and probably died by 75.

[princeperch]

I wish. It won't be all that long until I am 40.

[ooid]

Mr Whippy said:

Roll on ChatGPT5 for the bulk of these jobs I hope.

I do not think the type of jobs that explained here would be done by ChatGPTX anytime soon...



- though I think they have fixed this but still long way to go!

Overall, productivity growth over long term has not been easy, 5%(10 year average) was the highest recorded so far!

[jerryjerry44]

princeperch said:

Its also worth mentioning that the london weighting element of public sector pay is laughable. I think I get paid 3k more than my counterpart in darlington!

Id still rather cut off all my arms and legs than live and work in Darlington, however, these are not 200k jobs that you have the spare slack to pay for the commute with. These are jobs that can literally be done anywhere, and its nothing more than a vanity exercise that the civil service remains in whitehall. They really do need to accept they cannot pay london proper salaries and move the whole thing somewhere cheaper, or accept people are settled where they are and let them wfh.

Many argue that remote work has shown that certain jobs can indeed be performed effectively from anywhere, which could potentially justify revisiting the need for centralized offices in high-cost areas. According to the recent reports of homes for heroes customer service, the prices will still grow in the next couple of months and inflation is one of the reason.

Edited by jerryjerry44 on Thursday 18th April 12:49

[Funny username]

James-gbg1e said:

No idea where in the Midlands you speak of but that first house (didn't check them up) which as a tonne of character definitely isn't a 300k house in CV13/LE10 areas that I know very well.

They don't seem far off the money relative to a 3.5 bed new build white sh*tbox still shifting for 450k... Oh but they also give you a Beko dishwasher in with that!

I’m north of East Midlands. De5/de55….that first one is £500k min.

[havoc]

jerryjerry44 said:

Many argue that remote work has shown that certain jobs can indeed be performed effectively from anywhere, which could potentially justify revisiting the need for centralized offices in high-cost areas

There's a lot of inertia amongst the sort of control-freak / sociopath that tends to get to executive level against that, despite the evidence in its favour.

[NerveAgent]

okgo said:

York one of the few places you could reasonably move from the South and not feel like a complete outsider I expect. Plus it’s cheap for anyone from London.

Mate of mine bought a big old house up there with the sale of a 2 bed in Fulham.

I doubt you’d fit in there either, to be fair.

[okgo]

NerveAgent said:

I doubt you’d fit in there either, to be fair.

Charming. Weather too crap up there for me. And you all speak funny.

[brickwall]

On the whole WFH thing I’m quite pragmatic with my team.

I people to come in to the office as much as they need to get the work done. For some - that means quite a lot, because there are some tricky relationships to manage and they need that face-to-face time.

For others, it can mean barely at all - I have one person based in NYC but working a lot with people in both London and Singapore. They’re often on calls at 6/7am and 11pm NYC time - it makes no sense for them to commute into the office to do those.

Equally - for those jobs where we don’t need people to be in every day, it’s allowed me to recruit some GREAT people. The best person on my team has a disabled child - there’s no way I would have got her if I demanded she come into the office every day.

[DonkeyApple]

brickwall said:

On the whole WFH thing I’m quite pragmatic with my team.

I people to come in to the office as much as they need to get the work done. For some - that means quite a lot, because there are some tricky relationships to manage and they need that face-to-face time.

For others, it can mean barely at all - I have one person based in NYC but working a lot with people in both London and Singapore. They’re often on calls at 6/7am and 11pm NYC time - it makes no sense for them to commute into the office to do those.

Equally - for those jobs where we don’t need people to be in every day, it’s allowed me to recruit some GREAT people. The best person on my team has a disabled child - there’s no way I would have got her if I demanded she come into the office every day.

It opens the door to huge opportunity. Arguably the issue is that we are in a transition phase where many who can't function efficiently outside of an office and constant oversight by Mother are in the mix but you'd expect that over the next few years it will begin to sort itself out and find the efficiencies. It also requires a different set of management skills which not all existing managers have and that is also something which will work out over time.

[havoc]

[quote=DonkeyAppleIt also requires a different set of management skills which not all existing managers have
[/quote]

That is what I see as a key short/medium-term challenge - existing managers are predominantly Gen-X / Millennials (plus a few Boomers still around), who've risen through the ranks in almost entirely office-only environments. Tracking performance (not just task delivery) in a hybrid (or worse, fully-remote) environment is definitely outside of the comfort zone.

[LooneyTunes]

DonkeyApple said:

brickwall said:

On the whole WFH thing I’m quite pragmatic with my team.

I people to come in to the office as much as they need to get the work done. For some - that means quite a lot, because there are some tricky relationships to manage and they need that face-to-face time.

For others, it can mean barely at all - I have one person based in NYC but working a lot with people in both London and Singapore. They’re often on calls at 6/7am and 11pm NYC time - it makes no sense for them to commute into the office to do those.

Equally - for those jobs where we don’t need people to be in every day, it’s allowed me to recruit some GREAT people. The best person on my team has a disabled child - there’s no way I would have got her if I demanded she come into the office every day.

It opens the door to huge opportunity. Arguably the issue is that we are in a transition phase where many who can't function efficiently outside of an office and constant oversight by Mother are in the mix but you'd expect that over the next few years it will begin to sort itself out and find the efficiencies. It also requires a different set of management skills which not all existing managers have and that is also something which will work out over time.

I don't think it's just oversight or even actual/perceived productivity.

Arguably a large part of the issue is that many (especially younger staff) simply do not have appropriate facilities to work from home. It always amazes me that the occupational health teams, recently so insistent on workplace assessment and desks/workstations with all the bells and whistles, are suddenly quite happy with the idea that staff can work on laptops (often without separate keyboards/monitors) at their (non height-adjustable) kitchen tables whilst sat on (non adjustable chairs)... of course, saying you can only WFH if you have a dedicated and appropriate home office isn't something that would resonate with the majority. Which, in part, I suspect is why many firms are saying "back to the office please".

That isn't to say that some employees can't/don't work well remotely, but even several years after covid, I'm yet to be convinced that it works for the majority of office jobs.