Financial planning for and during retirement
Discussion
Great thread.
Really keen on pensions and the financial side of it, but I'm only 30 years of age. My plan is to invest lots early on, taking advantage of AVCs, which in return give you tax relief. Eventually, as someone else has already said, the compound interest each year should be a hefty number (especially if I'm saving for 35 years), which will probably allow me to almost live off that.
Obviously there are many variables and stuff and I doubt I'll even make 65/70, but we'll see. If it all goes pear shaped then at least I know my missus will be taken care of, even at this young age she'll do pretty well if I snuff it
Really keen on pensions and the financial side of it, but I'm only 30 years of age. My plan is to invest lots early on, taking advantage of AVCs, which in return give you tax relief. Eventually, as someone else has already said, the compound interest each year should be a hefty number (especially if I'm saving for 35 years), which will probably allow me to almost live off that.
Obviously there are many variables and stuff and I doubt I'll even make 65/70, but we'll see. If it all goes pear shaped then at least I know my missus will be taken care of, even at this young age she'll do pretty well if I snuff it
FWIW:
60 yrs old, sold hse 2 years ago and invested some of the proceeds whilst waiting to buy the next home. wife/i have sipps which we paid a one off fee for advice as to what to fund with back in '21. That was our first opp to put money aside, luckily we backdated / carried forward the contributions and put decent sums into both.
by chance i found ' a bloke on the internet' - yeah i know! But in seriousness the guy churns out content daily on utube for free - why? he's one of teh rare breed that wants to give back to others, having an idea of his trades, i guess being worth multi £M's means he only has his skin in the game - but wants to help others achieve a decent retirement/lifestyle as he's in the camp of being fed up with debasement.
So i listen to what he says, plus a few others whom are of a similar disposition.
with the 'temporary' money from hse sale, funded isas' - just managed to get 3 allocations - ie/ covered 3 years worth, the latest being this year.
original stake has handily grown massively in last year - in isa/gia/sipps.
my findings:
1/ i spoke at length to a retirement type planning company - http://www.burgessandlee.co.uk/ - i found them because 1 of their guys also puts out quality content about tips /tricks; from them i learned about possibly using a bond structure to reduce furture tax
2/ i engaged a specialist accountant for the cgt and because i also have crypto
3/ i spent ages figuring out how to try to balance the 'pots' between sipp/isa/gia - so that (hopefully) we still won't need to draw from pension for 2-3 (or more years) and when we do will be a blend from every source to minimize tax and have more £ in the pocket.
4/ i've never invested til 21, only took control in '22 as i was not happy with the paifd for recommenndations; in 18mths-2years have managed to learn how read /interpret tradingview charts, plus do basic options - buying-selling calls. That turbo'd the GIA and allowed us to pull out the original stake to buy the new house and have a healthy chunk left.
5/ have come across umpteen folks thru an investment community who just try to follow and not learn - which seems a sin, generally the excuse is 'time'. Which i do 'get', but why work for a lifetime and not invest in oneself with 30 mins a day or an extra hour at the weekends.....
6/ lessons learned:
control ones own fate, advisors are only as good as the info you share, and my opinion, are obviosuly cautious. There's times to go 'full on', and others to sit and wait. Allocation is key - a basket of stocks can do ok - but a focused approach for 'x' % of the portfolio can massively change things; Most of us don't really know much about the companies we're allocated to - example, a good pal keeps telling me that tesla is way overvalued for a car company, technically he's right - but they aren't just a car company: Deeper dives can give conviction to go in hard.
All major brokers/providers have paper trading - which is a great way to dip toes in the water.
Finally - time horizon and fear. If folks have time on their side it's so much easier to allocate sensible %'s across a portfolio. I took a very calculated risk, if it hadn't worked then we'd be dipping into the sipps already, at 60 yrs old logically i shouldn't have taken that risk on - but to me the maths of the upside vs 'worst that can happen' was compelling. Fear = the amount of folks i know who panic because they're looking at long term investments in too short a timeframe, and panic when there's a pullback - i've come to learn that's when to buy - when others are fearful.
overall: my take.
research/plan for taxes, that aspect makes a bloody big difference to money in the pocket
engage with the right specialists: pension / savings specialists, specialist accountant etc
do the legwork to manage ones own affairs.
beware doom/gloom - forums are full of folks who decry the levels of say S&P - and who tout the line ' we're due a crash'; well maybe we are, but anyone who pulled monies out in the past weeks will have missed the biggest adage 'time in the markets'.
sorry, bit long winded!
60 yrs old, sold hse 2 years ago and invested some of the proceeds whilst waiting to buy the next home. wife/i have sipps which we paid a one off fee for advice as to what to fund with back in '21. That was our first opp to put money aside, luckily we backdated / carried forward the contributions and put decent sums into both.
by chance i found ' a bloke on the internet' - yeah i know! But in seriousness the guy churns out content daily on utube for free - why? he's one of teh rare breed that wants to give back to others, having an idea of his trades, i guess being worth multi £M's means he only has his skin in the game - but wants to help others achieve a decent retirement/lifestyle as he's in the camp of being fed up with debasement.
So i listen to what he says, plus a few others whom are of a similar disposition.
with the 'temporary' money from hse sale, funded isas' - just managed to get 3 allocations - ie/ covered 3 years worth, the latest being this year.
original stake has handily grown massively in last year - in isa/gia/sipps.
my findings:
1/ i spoke at length to a retirement type planning company - http://www.burgessandlee.co.uk/ - i found them because 1 of their guys also puts out quality content about tips /tricks; from them i learned about possibly using a bond structure to reduce furture tax
2/ i engaged a specialist accountant for the cgt and because i also have crypto
3/ i spent ages figuring out how to try to balance the 'pots' between sipp/isa/gia - so that (hopefully) we still won't need to draw from pension for 2-3 (or more years) and when we do will be a blend from every source to minimize tax and have more £ in the pocket.
4/ i've never invested til 21, only took control in '22 as i was not happy with the paifd for recommenndations; in 18mths-2years have managed to learn how read /interpret tradingview charts, plus do basic options - buying-selling calls. That turbo'd the GIA and allowed us to pull out the original stake to buy the new house and have a healthy chunk left.
5/ have come across umpteen folks thru an investment community who just try to follow and not learn - which seems a sin, generally the excuse is 'time'. Which i do 'get', but why work for a lifetime and not invest in oneself with 30 mins a day or an extra hour at the weekends.....
6/ lessons learned:
control ones own fate, advisors are only as good as the info you share, and my opinion, are obviosuly cautious. There's times to go 'full on', and others to sit and wait. Allocation is key - a basket of stocks can do ok - but a focused approach for 'x' % of the portfolio can massively change things; Most of us don't really know much about the companies we're allocated to - example, a good pal keeps telling me that tesla is way overvalued for a car company, technically he's right - but they aren't just a car company: Deeper dives can give conviction to go in hard.
All major brokers/providers have paper trading - which is a great way to dip toes in the water.
Finally - time horizon and fear. If folks have time on their side it's so much easier to allocate sensible %'s across a portfolio. I took a very calculated risk, if it hadn't worked then we'd be dipping into the sipps already, at 60 yrs old logically i shouldn't have taken that risk on - but to me the maths of the upside vs 'worst that can happen' was compelling. Fear = the amount of folks i know who panic because they're looking at long term investments in too short a timeframe, and panic when there's a pullback - i've come to learn that's when to buy - when others are fearful.
overall: my take.
research/plan for taxes, that aspect makes a bloody big difference to money in the pocket
engage with the right specialists: pension / savings specialists, specialist accountant etc
do the legwork to manage ones own affairs.
beware doom/gloom - forums are full of folks who decry the levels of say S&P - and who tout the line ' we're due a crash'; well maybe we are, but anyone who pulled monies out in the past weeks will have missed the biggest adage 'time in the markets'.
sorry, bit long winded!
Based on my old US social circle (which comprise mostly of bankers, accountants and even a rare attorney!), financial planning service seem far more established across the pond. Despite all working within the financial industry (these were super bright guys!), they all hire an advisor to crunch out their financial plan / years till retirement. The topic of retirement was an open discussion which I never encountered with my UK peers / social circle!. OK, I am only referencing half a dozen US guys, but they all seem so switched on to plan (make their millions!) their exit strategy. Maybe their firm offered an in-house financial planning service, but whatever the reason, they took their advisor's financial plan seriously!
Edited by chip* on Wednesday 13th November 17:54
Is this Voyant software just UK focussed? I‘d be quite interested in the scenario planning side of it, but if it‘s heavy on splitting GIA/ISA/SIPP etc and being tax efficient, I wouldn‘t see much value in it.
We are accumulating wealth in a relatively straightforward taxation country (Switzerland) and will spend it in another that seems to have straightforward tax laws without (m)any optimisation strategies (Spain). Will pop back to the UK to liberate pension pots at a 5% one off charge in Switzerland and zero in the UK, whereas Spain would confiscate nearly half of the pot!
We are accumulating wealth in a relatively straightforward taxation country (Switzerland) and will spend it in another that seems to have straightforward tax laws without (m)any optimisation strategies (Spain). Will pop back to the UK to liberate pension pots at a 5% one off charge in Switzerland and zero in the UK, whereas Spain would confiscate nearly half of the pot!
chip* said:
Based on my old US social circle (which comprise mostly of bankers, accountants and even a rare attorney!), financial planning service seem far more established across the pond. Despite all working within the financial industry (these were super bright guys!), they all hire an advisor to crunch out their financial plan / years till retirement. The topic of retirement was an open discussion which I never encountered with my UK peers / social circle!. OK, I am only referencing half a dozen US guys, but they all seem so switched on to plan (make their millions!) their exit strategy. Maybe their firm offered an in-house financial planning service, but whatever the reason, they took their advisor's financial plan seriously!
true, that said, i know a guy in an investment circle. he tentatively pulled about 25% of his worth from the control of his FA as he wasn't sure he could trust himself to invest - he's now pulled another 50% to control himself, because he's made crazy gains in comparison to the 'tried and tested'.Edited by chip* on Wednesday 13th November 17:54
eyebeebe said:
Is this Voyant software just UK focussed? I‘d be quite interested in the scenario planning side of it, but if it‘s heavy on splitting GIA/ISA/SIPP etc and being tax efficient, I wouldn‘t see much value in it.
I think it’s an American company but they have a help web site where you can find many answers.https://support.planwithvoyant.com/hc/en-us
Mostly posting to subscribe but in case it adds content here’s a few thoughts ………..
I am in a similar situation to a few that have already posted. Mid-50s, got a reasonable pot built up but haven’t quite reached the point where I’m ready to pull the pin on work.
Definitely the transition from adding to savings and then drawing from them is going to be a challenge but there’s no point being the richest guy in the cemetery so that’s one I have to get over at some point soon
.
I learned loads from the old IM threads and am still on the revamped Quanda and Cobens forums although there is definitely less content on there compared to the PH threads. In truth I have probably picked up a lot of the information I needed but it’s a shame that others on here won’t get the benefit.
I don’t have an IFA and am not convinced of their value, particularly as an annual cost. I can however see the value in paying for detailed advice when it’s required although a lot of what is needed is often available elsewhere.
I am in a similar situation to a few that have already posted. Mid-50s, got a reasonable pot built up but haven’t quite reached the point where I’m ready to pull the pin on work.
Definitely the transition from adding to savings and then drawing from them is going to be a challenge but there’s no point being the richest guy in the cemetery so that’s one I have to get over at some point soon
.I learned loads from the old IM threads and am still on the revamped Quanda and Cobens forums although there is definitely less content on there compared to the PH threads. In truth I have probably picked up a lot of the information I needed but it’s a shame that others on here won’t get the benefit.
I don’t have an IFA and am not convinced of their value, particularly as an annual cost. I can however see the value in paying for detailed advice when it’s required although a lot of what is needed is often available elsewhere.
greengreenwood7 said:
FWIW:
by chance i found ' a bloke on the internet' - yeah i know! But in seriousness the guy churns out content daily on utube for free - why? he's one of teh rare breed that wants to give back to others, having an idea of his trades, i guess being worth multi £M's means he only has his skin in the game - but wants to help others achieve a decent retirement/lifestyle as he's in the camp of being fed up with debasement.
So i listen to what he says, plus a few others whom are of a similar disposition.
<more stuff>
sorry, bit long winded!
So don't hold back: who is the bloke on the internet?by chance i found ' a bloke on the internet' - yeah i know! But in seriousness the guy churns out content daily on utube for free - why? he's one of teh rare breed that wants to give back to others, having an idea of his trades, i guess being worth multi £M's means he only has his skin in the game - but wants to help others achieve a decent retirement/lifestyle as he's in the camp of being fed up with debasement.
So i listen to what he says, plus a few others whom are of a similar disposition.
<more stuff>
sorry, bit long winded!
Derek Chevalier said:
Claret m said:
Level of risk- IFAs will make you fill out lots of questionnaires to assess your level for risk, this is for their benefit to comply with regulatory requirements.
Not sure why you believe this. They can be used as a starting point in a conversation to establish how much volatility you are willing to accept and how this fits in with the risk/return to ensure the success of your financial plan.
Some advisers choose not to use risk questionnaires, calling them "mumbo-jumbo questionnaires"
Or when people ask about planning do they actually mean they want the highest return possible?
Steve H said:
Mostly posting to subscribe but in case it adds content here’s a few thoughts ………..
I am in a similar situation to a few that have already posted. Mid-50s, got a reasonable pot built up but haven’t quite reached the point where I’m ready to pull the pin on work.
…
I don’t have an IFA and am not convinced of their value, particularly as an annual cost. I can however see the value in paying for detailed advice when it’s required although a lot of what is needed is often available elsewhere.
Similar situation and age. Found an advisor working on a one off fee to do a health/sanity check. They want to take 1% for ongoing advice which I won’t pay for.I am in a similar situation to a few that have already posted. Mid-50s, got a reasonable pot built up but haven’t quite reached the point where I’m ready to pull the pin on work.
…
I don’t have an IFA and am not convinced of their value, particularly as an annual cost. I can however see the value in paying for detailed advice when it’s required although a lot of what is needed is often available elsewhere.
Thanks for starting this thread OP - I have followed, and occasionally contributed to the "Enjoying Retirement" thread, but am not there yet, so feel this thread will be right up my street.
Mid/late 50s, Mrs H and I didn't have a bean saved for retirement until our early 40s. But we have been shovelling in as much as we can afford in recent years and I've become somewhat addicted to monitoring our savings and modelling scenarios in Excel and online tools. Sad I know but being an accountant I do love working with numbers!
I really enjoy a few YouTube channels and podcasts - Meaningful Money with Pete Matthews, Damian Talks Money, and most recently Many Happy Returns.
Our kids have both recently started working so are off the domestic payroll, despite still living at home.
I've got a good idea of our expected spend/budget now and in retirement, and I hope to retire in 2-3 years time with Mrs H soon thereafter. We'll both have qualified for the full new state pension, and have enough in our pensions to live a good lifestyle for 15 years minimum - longer if we are prepared to cut our cloth as markets dictate. We also have equity in the house which can be released thereafter if necessary.
A big part of our financial model, however, is the expectation of inheritances from both sets of parents (all octogenarians). I appreciate many folk feel strongly that inheritances shouldn't be considered (care home costs, not to mention the latest IHT news), but in our particular circumstances and even accounting for care home costs we will get a few 100k.
Looking forward to reading and learning from this thread as it grows.
Mid/late 50s, Mrs H and I didn't have a bean saved for retirement until our early 40s. But we have been shovelling in as much as we can afford in recent years and I've become somewhat addicted to monitoring our savings and modelling scenarios in Excel and online tools. Sad I know but being an accountant I do love working with numbers!
I really enjoy a few YouTube channels and podcasts - Meaningful Money with Pete Matthews, Damian Talks Money, and most recently Many Happy Returns.
Our kids have both recently started working so are off the domestic payroll, despite still living at home.
I've got a good idea of our expected spend/budget now and in retirement, and I hope to retire in 2-3 years time with Mrs H soon thereafter. We'll both have qualified for the full new state pension, and have enough in our pensions to live a good lifestyle for 15 years minimum - longer if we are prepared to cut our cloth as markets dictate. We also have equity in the house which can be released thereafter if necessary.
A big part of our financial model, however, is the expectation of inheritances from both sets of parents (all octogenarians). I appreciate many folk feel strongly that inheritances shouldn't be considered (care home costs, not to mention the latest IHT news), but in our particular circumstances and even accounting for care home costs we will get a few 100k.
Looking forward to reading and learning from this thread as it grows.
mikeiow said:
So don't hold back: who is the bloke on the internet?
oops, sorry Mike - there's a few; main one is 'James' - 'investanswers' on utube - there is a blend of general strategy/tips, plus insight into certain equities-sectors and also crypto. a good way to gauge whether he has any value to you is to catch any of the sunday Q&A's, where folks have posted questions which he tries to answer as frankly as he can within the 'not financial advice'.
he often publicly shares how he has done things, like taking synthetic longs or hedges - not in real time on the public utube, but good enough to get a sense of how to ampligy/protect.
i recently stumbled on another, this guy is bit younger, retired early due to investing: micro2macro , he's on utube/ x - good content. often shares what he's done/doing
and 'beatthedenominator' does v.indepth insights into high growth stocks - dry, but v.insightful but no fancy 'play by play' - you have to work that out yourself.
finally - relevant to those that don't believe that bitcoin is a sham - as they focus purely on the company microstrategy (which is a BTC 'proxy)
utube 'quantbros' - for anyone that already has some mstr or is intrigued by it's rise and likely continued rise, they have interesting takes - but lengthy videos.
for tesla specifically: herbert ong - brighter with herbert
but overall, investanswers aligns with my equity/crypto thoughts, so i follow him daily, the others i'll tune into weekly 'ish.
Been planning for a few years and now 18 months away.
This is what I do,
1. Understand how much I want to spend.
2. Model saving until retirement to get idea of how much you will have. I used 4% growth for stocks (trackers) and 2% for cash.
3. Use something like fire calc to test the longevity / success of those plans against history to determine if it’s enough. (A friend has produced a much easier and more modern looking tool to do the same. I will see if he is happy for met to post the link)
I have a basic spreadsheet that tracks everything and gives me an idea of total returns for the year, against what my retirement income will be and how much is left and if this covers inflation.
I’ve built a withdrawal spreadsheet, using the same return guesstimates, to gauge the most efficient withdrawal strategy with the aim of paying the least tax and maximising an inheritance. Again helps to see if I have enough.
This is what I do,
1. Understand how much I want to spend.
2. Model saving until retirement to get idea of how much you will have. I used 4% growth for stocks (trackers) and 2% for cash.
3. Use something like fire calc to test the longevity / success of those plans against history to determine if it’s enough. (A friend has produced a much easier and more modern looking tool to do the same. I will see if he is happy for met to post the link)
I have a basic spreadsheet that tracks everything and gives me an idea of total returns for the year, against what my retirement income will be and how much is left and if this covers inflation.
I’ve built a withdrawal spreadsheet, using the same return guesstimates, to gauge the most efficient withdrawal strategy with the aim of paying the least tax and maximising an inheritance. Again helps to see if I have enough.
Good thread idea OP!
Here's my take on it - 10 years into early retirement:
1. Started thinking about early retirement at 39, after splitting with my work partner
2. Set a 10 year plan to be able to do it
3. Read alot and used low cost platforms and fees
4. Managed it after 8 years and 'pulled the plug' on my business after 8 years (at 47 years old)
5. Used a 3% drawdown rule and closely (perhaps too closely) watched what we spent
6. 10 years in, out pots are alot bigger than they started out at and we have increased our spending rate
We've had 10 years of retirement already. We could have continued to work and made the pot bigger, but this would have been folly, as the pot already is big enough
If you think you can go early, check and check again but do it. Life is for living!
Here's my take on it - 10 years into early retirement:
1. Started thinking about early retirement at 39, after splitting with my work partner
2. Set a 10 year plan to be able to do it
3. Read alot and used low cost platforms and fees
4. Managed it after 8 years and 'pulled the plug' on my business after 8 years (at 47 years old)
5. Used a 3% drawdown rule and closely (perhaps too closely) watched what we spent
6. 10 years in, out pots are alot bigger than they started out at and we have increased our spending rate
We've had 10 years of retirement already. We could have continued to work and made the pot bigger, but this would have been folly, as the pot already is big enough
If you think you can go early, check and check again but do it. Life is for living!
greengreenwood7 said:
<good reply>
Thanks for that, I will take a browse later.For retirement planning, I would strongly recommend you add James Shack on YouTube to that list!
Derek Chevalier said:
supersport said:
3. Use something like fire calc to test the longevity / success of those plans against history to determine if it’s enough.
How do you select something that's relevant for a UK retiree? UK historical inflation etc. 
)For those looking for a spreadsheet, https://whatapalaver.co.uk/retirement-planning-cou... has a fairly decent one. I found it 'confirmed' my one was in the right ball park (so continued with refining ours - your own is always better than someone else's in the long run, IMHO).
deanobeano said:
Good thread idea OP!
Here's my take on it - 10 years into early retirement:
1. Started thinking about early retirement at 39, after splitting with my work partner
2. Set a 10 year plan to be able to do it
3. Read alot and used low cost platforms and fees
4. Managed it after 8 years and 'pulled the plug' on my business after 8 years (at 47 years old)
5. Used a 3% drawdown rule and closely (perhaps too closely) watched what we spent
6. 10 years in, out pots are alot bigger than they started out at and we have increased our spending rate
We've had 10 years of retirement already. We could have continued to work and made the pot bigger, but this would have been folly, as the pot already is big enough
If you think you can go early, check and check again but do it. Life is for living!
A great set of steps.Here's my take on it - 10 years into early retirement:
1. Started thinking about early retirement at 39, after splitting with my work partner
2. Set a 10 year plan to be able to do it
3. Read alot and used low cost platforms and fees
4. Managed it after 8 years and 'pulled the plug' on my business after 8 years (at 47 years old)
5. Used a 3% drawdown rule and closely (perhaps too closely) watched what we spent
6. 10 years in, out pots are alot bigger than they started out at and we have increased our spending rate
We've had 10 years of retirement already. We could have continued to work and made the pot bigger, but this would have been folly, as the pot already is big enough
If you think you can go early, check and check again but do it. Life is for living!
For those here who are parents, remember to get your children to invest early. Check out Ben v Alice here - a salutary lesson in the power of compounding!
Derek Chevalier said:
supersport said:
3. Use something like fire calc to test the longevity / success of those plans against history to determine if it’s enough.
How do you select something that's relevant for a UK retiree? UK historical inflation etc. Gassing Station | Finance | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff