Wood burning stove fitting questions walls/flues etc

Wood burning stove fitting questions walls/flues etc

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crankedup

22,346 posts

193 months

Friday 8th November 2013
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My search for a suitable stove continues, almost settled upon 'Future Fires Panoramic FX1' until Simpo2 pointed out that it looked like his old CRT television (it doe's). Now narrowed it down to one of two, both completely different style to each other and I cannot make up my mind which to go for!

ESSE 125 multifuel likely not to date to severely style wise.

DOVRE VINTAGE 35 possible ten years shelf life style wise (but I love it).


tr7ster

143 posts

128 months

Friday 8th November 2013
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Andehh said:
very interesting post mate! How old is your house? How did you deal with going through the wall/insulation/plasterboard etc - all stuff that doesn't like intense heat - just the flue sufficient?

Did you ever consider going through the house/hack open the wall to try and in-bed it in there?
Just some context to start with; we're in a row of five detached houses, each built at different times and mostly by builders for themselves. It's a very rural area which was formerly very industrial, but has now passed 'back to nature'. My house was built around 1985 by a (then) local builder, for him and his family to live in. It's since been extended, rented, sold a few times, hacked about, majorly botched etc, before I bought it in 2008 and started to hack it about some more.

When designing the flue I had the usual choice to make - either take it up inside the house and bring it out through the roof, or punch straight through the living room wall and take it up outside. I chose the latter option, as keeping it inside looked to be much more hassle in all honesty, having to negotiate joist locations, dealing with ventilated firestop plates to penetrate floors, shifting roof tiles and mucking about with flashings etc; plus it would have needed to be boxed in as it passed through upstairs rooms, taking up valuable corner space in my study. Also, perhaps because mine is painted matt black rather than the usual shiny stainless steel, it has a certain industrial feel to it which I quite like so don't mind it being visible on the wall outside, and it seems to fit visually with the natural slate roof.

Having decided to go outside, I then had a choice whether to take the flue directly out of the back of the stove, through the wall horizontally and into a 90deg tee (this is allowed in regs but must be as short as possible, and only 'for initial connection to flue'), or to use the top exit on the flue and run it through the wall further up at 45 degrees. This was a no-brainer to me for a number of reasons: (1) I didn't want any horizontal flue if I could avoid it, (2) my drive runs immediately parallel to the external wall where the flue is, so by having the exit much higher up there's no chance of any cars clouting it, and (3) having a length of single wall vitreous flue pipe within the living room, before it connects to the insulated twin-wall flue, allows more radiant heat into the room.

My house was built using standard construction – breeze block cavity walls with rockwool-type insulation, harled externally and rendered/plastered inside, so I didn’t have to deal with any plasterboard. The flue passes through the external wall via a ’wall sleeve’ which is larger in diameter than the outside dimension of the twin-wall flue. Basically you cut a big hole in the wall, mortar in the sleeve, stick the flue through, fill the gaps with rockwool and seal either end. I used the sleeve as a template, and stitch-drilled at 45deg all the way round, chiseling out the remainder until the sleeve went in. I’m sure there are more elegant solutions but it worked for me. I used an angle guide to keep me right. I measured everything very carefully to make sure that the flue would sit at exactly 45 degrees and have a gap all the way around it within the sleeve before installing the main load-bearing flue bracket outside. Getting the rest of the flue up outside was very easy; 1m at a time, 1/8th of a turn and clip a locking band on – done. Plus another couple of wall brackets obviously.

Inside I ended up with about 700mm of vitreous flue from the top of the stove before a 45 degree bend (with an access door to facilitate easy sweeping) and then the adapter from single- to twin-wall flue. To seal around the ends of the wall sleeve I used copious quantities of Fortafix HT Flexseal which is apparently good for heat up to 300C, not that the outside of the twin-wall flue gets anything like that hot – just uncomfortable to the touch but no more. I wanted to go for something flexible so that it wouldn’t start to let in rain if there were any movement through contraction/expansion as it heats and cools; I haven’t had any issues of water ingress at all so it obviously does the job. For making good inside, I just chopped out the old plaster in a square about 30cm all the way around and used heat resistant plaster to fill. I’ll have a look through some photos to see if there are any useful ones I can post to show what I’m talking about; I’ve yet to get round to redecorating though (too many other simultaneous house projects…) so you’re not seeing any recent ones!

Pesty

Original Poster:

41,230 posts

206 months

Friday 8th November 2013
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Dan_The_Man said:
We had a Charnwood C-6 fitted exactly like you want yours - we had no fireplace just a plain end wall. Cost was nearly £3K which included everything like fireplace, building regs etc, the most expensive part was the flue that had a couple of 45 degree bends to come out round the facia and continued up.
Called in a place today estimate they gave was 3 k frown

The aga little wenlock is too small it will be lost and they said with twin walled flu will look silly


The contura 51l. Looked great.but was more than I wanted to pay hhhmmmm

Edited by Pesty on Friday 8th November 13:34

Granville

983 posts

121 months

Friday 8th November 2013
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Pointed my OH in the direction of this thread as he is wanting to knock through and re-open our fireplace back up and put a stove in it.


Pesty

Original Poster:

41,230 posts

206 months

Friday 8th November 2013
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Thoughts on this?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stainless-Steel-Twin-wal...


Problem is I don't know whether I need 5 or 6 inch myself.


I'm guessing this would be everything I need flue wise ?

Pesty

Original Poster:

41,230 posts

206 months

Friday 8th November 2013
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Silly question but what's wrong with this?


Thinking fit for a year or two until I can get a decent one?


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wood-Burning-Multifuel-S...

cg360

600 posts

187 months

Friday 8th November 2013
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I fitted my own in March 2012, cost just over £1450. As with the previous self-installer, it took months of research and lots of measuring, but by February next year it will have paid for itself, as we simply don't ever need our central heating any more (I get my wood for nowt through effort and trailering, and we're rural so mains gas savings will be somewhat less, I imagine).

Mine was installed in a 1980's 3-bed bungalow with no existing chimney, flue exits vertically from the stove and passes through ceiling and roof. We got a secondhand hearth which is substantially larger than regs stipulate, but having done so and also seen a regs-size hearth install, I would certainly recommend going at least 20cm bigger all round.

Technology is very very simple, just take your time and make sure you note all clearances specified in the regs and clarify what your stove requires.

Think you asked about ceilings etc.? You need a fireplate which will ensure correct clearances from joists etc.

I would say it has improved our life in lots of ways, the ponciest of which is that I get no small satisfaction out of the fact that my hard work now directly heats my home, instead of paying someone else to do it. Our house is warmer throughout than when we relied on the CH, and it's a nicer heat, if you know what I mean. We also huddle round it so it is a great family thing too.

This is my stove - http://www.adurofire.com/asgaard-stoves/stove/asga... I wanted a convecting stove, and this looked like good value. Having experienced normal stoves in friends' houses, I think I'd go for a convector again, and probably the same stove.


Pesty

Original Poster:

41,230 posts

206 months

Friday 8th November 2013
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Stupid question but where do you take your trailer to get wood free?

tr7ster

143 posts

128 months

Friday 8th November 2013
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Pesty said:
Looks ok, but a couple of points to think on. It doesn't appear to have a load-bearing wall bracket included so you'd maybe want to consider of them; depends on how high your flue needs to go, and therefore how much weight it needs to support. Also, you might want to consider a 135 degree tee and drain plug, rather than the 45 degree bend that is included there - although a fair bit more expensive it would allow a straight sweep up the main length of the flue from outside, and would hopefully let any rainwater that happened to get blown in the top of the flue to drain outside, rather than in to your stove.

Most importantly, can you get replacement or additional parts that will be interchangeable with it? I'd be annoyed if I bought a used flue and needed say one extra bend, but couldn't find one anywhere...


Pesty said:
Problem is I don't know whether I need 5 or 6 inch myself.
Hmm, the witty responses available to this....

But I'll be sensible. Pretty sure the regs call for minimum 6" internal flue diameter; a lot of stoves have 5" outlets which you need to convert up.

Pesty said:
Silly question but what's wrong with this?


Thinking fit for a year or two until I can get a decent one?


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wood-Burning-Multifuel-S...
Yep that would probably do for a while. Have you thought about what heat output you need for the room you're putting it in? You don't want a hugely overrated output as you'll end up smouldering all your fuel to stop your face melting, and that's not good for stainless steel flues - you get creosote deposits which corrode the steel over time. Also, for the sake of a few hundred quid or so, I'd be tempted just to get the stove I really want straight away (for everything else there's Visa or something). Then you won't have issues changing it later (because the flue exit on the new stove will be in a different place, at a different height etc) plus, at that price, I've no idea how it will perform - if it's crap then it might just frustrate you till you either buy a better one, or scrap the whole idea and rip the flue out again!

cg360 said:
the ponciest of which is that I get no small satisfaction out of the fact that my hard work now directly heats my home, instead of paying someone else to do it.
Exactly what that Daily Mash article was picking fun at - but this, totally.

cg360 said:
We also huddle round it so it is a great family thing too
Yep. Everyone will be round to yours for Christmas Day.

Pesty said:
Stupid question but where do you take your trailer to get wood free?
I get mine for free thanks to MiL working at a school with lots of trees and a regular felling policy.

Pesty

Original Poster:

41,230 posts

206 months

Friday 8th November 2013
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Ahh so I can't just pile up to a wood and chop a few trees down then smile

Yes I've thought about output I mentioned it today in the shop still a little confused.

Room is quite large it has four large radiators in it.

Lady said for just keeping us all warm for watching telly etc etc 5kw should do.

There are a lot if windows and patio door so heat does disappear quickly. 1 reason why I want one if these. That and I've always wanted one but couldn't justify it.


Oh the cheap burner from ebay is a no no. Not defra approved. I rang them she said it passes some stricter European standards but isn't defra marked frown

MonkeyBusiness

3,329 posts

137 months

Friday 8th November 2013
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I took delivery of a Firefox 5 stove this week. Very happy with it and hope to get it all installed this weekend.

phelix

3,636 posts

199 months

Friday 8th November 2013
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Isn't DEFRA approval what's needed for low smoke urban areas where HETAS approval is what's needed? http://www.hetas.co.uk/find-appliance/

Pesty

Original Poster:

41,230 posts

206 months

Sunday 10th November 2013
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I've found a slate hearth 900x900x 25 which if I have understood the regs correctly is what I need for free standing stove.

At the back of the stove do I need anything? Getting confused here as some say I do and someple don't. In pictures I see a mix of backing or plaster board.

Stupid question.

As globs said the more flue in the room the more heat it gives out. So I'm guessing I use basic flue up to a 45 degree to go through the wall near ceiling then twin wall outside.

Anybody got any pics of their free standing installs?

Getting a different lot to give me a quote I'm sure they will explain it all. I'm hoping they give us a quote of less than 3 k. If ITs around 2 ish I'll just tell em to get on with it otherwise I think I'll just give it a go myself.



Pesty

Original Poster:

41,230 posts

206 months

Sunday 10th November 2013
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cold thursday said:
I found this site very good. It helped me stop my builder from doing it all wrong.
(he still managed to fit the flue upside down though)

http://www.stovefittersmanual.co.uk/
Actually I'll take a look around here forgot this link

Cheers

Edited by Pesty on Sunday 10th November 21:20

cg360

600 posts

187 months

Tuesday 12th November 2013
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I just meant my trailer is very handy for getting free (unwanted) wood from wherever it is to mine, that's all. Wood is bulky and heavy, so ability to transport is important!

cg360

600 posts

187 months

Tuesday 12th November 2013
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The twinwall flue is 2" bigger in diameter than the singlewall, so you will have a visible increase in diameter somewhere. I didn't like the change, so used twinwall all the way. I'll post a pic of freestanding stove later.

andy43

6,342 posts

204 months

Tuesday 12th November 2013
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We've fitted a boiler stove against our gable, single skin up out the top of the stove, then twinwall 45 thru wall, then up the side of the house.
I put a 135 tee at the bottom so I can rod straight up the flue to clean. I get maybe a 1/4 of a bucket of ash out after a full winter. If I did it again I'd put an access point in close to the stove to allow easier cleaning of the first section of flue that goes from the stove through the wall.
Ebay secondhand flue - I'd recommend only bidding on brand names eg Selkirk, as you WILL need extra bits.
To clear the roof properly, I had to get some stainless bracket bits made up to position the flue out further from the wall than with the standard bits.
Hearth is actually two bits of Silestone-type manmade quartz worktop cut to size - no idea how heatproof it is but our stove has a logstore under so the hearth never gets hot anyway. Worth trying granite worktop places if you want something smooth-looking.
eta 6" I.D is better than 5" - vast majority of stoves seemed to require 6" when I was looking. Think hetas may have something against 5" from memory.

Harry Flashman

13,467 posts

192 months

Tuesday 12th November 2013
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MonkeyBusiness said:
I took delivery of a Firefox 5 stove this week. Very happy with it and hope to get it all installed this weekend.
I have one of these in the house. Been using it lots, great little stove, far higher quality than the price would suggest.

MonkeyBusiness

3,329 posts

137 months

Tuesday 12th November 2013
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Harry Flashman said:
I have one of these in the house. Been using it lots, great little stove, far higher quality than the price would suggest.
Thanks for that because I was a bit wary with the price tag but they have been recommended to me a few times.
It was installed yesterday so tonight's the night! Kindling at the ready.

Podie

45,668 posts

225 months

Tuesday 12th November 2013
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MonkeyBusiness said:
It was installed yesterday so tonight's the night! Kindling at the ready.
Ah, the process of "finding the knack of lighting the damn thing" starts hehe