Is anyone moving now?

Is anyone moving now?

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Discussion

Grr_Boris

67 posts

2 months

Saturday 15th May
quotequote all
Fast Bug said:
Moving house really is death by a 1000 cuts. I don't know why it's such a drawn out and painful process
We were at the top of a chain of just 4 and yet we still didn't get the keys until after 4pm.

It really shouldn't be as difficult and time-consuming as it is!

Jakg

2,697 posts

134 months

Saturday 15th May
quotequote all
Cheib said:
fesuvious said:
Fast Bug said:
Moving house really is death by a 1000 cuts. I don't know why it's such a drawn out and painful process
Because the overwhelming majority of those paid to work in the entire sector don't fully understand the process.

Moreover can't cross reference the process with empathy for what clients are going through.

There's a woeful lack of consideration.

People are viewed as 'deals' or 'files' not as humans or families.

That's why structured reform that mandates timelines and reference points is desperately needed.
It’s an industry desperate for a change in practices...I can honestly see AI taking over an lot of “procedural” legal work in the future, The contracts are all pretty much a pro forma with a few details that need to be added.

We’re currently in the process of buying somewhere...we’re not in a chain and nether is the seller. No banks involved so it really should be very simple...only thing holding it up is the processing of the paperwork.
You don't need something wizzy to improve the process.

I'm still waiting for the paperwork to go through, and I'm frustrated that it seems there's no process management in place.
I.E. you call up, and after a couple of tries get to talk to the person. And then when you talk to the person and ask whats going on, they realise they sent a letter a couple of weeks ago and haven't heard back yet.

I wondered if there's a gap in the market for software to manage this - i.e. something where clients could see what was going on, and alerts when expected timeframes are breached.

Turns out this already exists in several pieces of software - in fact theres lots of process management software that manage this as an abstract problem and are configured to target lots of markets - but clearly conveyancers are too cheap to pay for them.

When I remortgaged I got "free" legals and it was done through one of the conveyancing warehouses everyone says not to use when your buying / selling.
It was slow for sure, but they used such a system - which suggests it's more cost effective for them.

Grr_Boris

67 posts

2 months

Sunday 16th May
quotequote all
Jakg said:
You don't need something wizzy to improve the process.

I'm still waiting for the paperwork to go through, and I'm frustrated that it seems there's no process management in place.
I.E. you call up, and after a couple of tries get to talk to the person. And then when you talk to the person and ask whats going on, they realise they sent a letter a couple of weeks ago and haven't heard back yet.
This.

Everything seems to be forced to move at the pace of the slowest solicitor in the chain and you have to be on top of your solicitor constantly, as rarely will they chase anything without pressure from you.

Sporky

1,593 posts

30 months

Sunday 16th May
quotequote all
Grr_Boris said:
We were at the top of a chain of just 4 and yet we still didn't get the keys until after 4pm.
We bought a chain-free house, and weren't selling ours. Still didn't get the keys until 5pm, because the person at the estate agent who got the call to release them didn't think to tell us, our solicitor, or anyone else... That could have been disastrous if we'd been trying to move in that day.

Cheib

20,405 posts

141 months

Sunday 16th May
quotequote all
Grr_Boris said:
Jakg said:
You don't need something wizzy to improve the process.

I'm still waiting for the paperwork to go through, and I'm frustrated that it seems there's no process management in place.
I.E. you call up, and after a couple of tries get to talk to the person. And then when you talk to the person and ask whats going on, they realise they sent a letter a couple of weeks ago and haven't heard back yet.
This.

Everything seems to be forced to move at the pace of the slowest solicitor in the chain and you have to be on top of your solicitor constantly, as rarely will they chase anything without pressure from you.
I suppose the problem is most of the “participants” in this market are small local solicitors firms....who probably don’t have the scale required to invest in an IT solution. It’s the old “Turkey voting for Christmas” scenario....none of them will move to make something more efficient that is probably a relatively good fee earner for the business.

Sheepshanks

23,907 posts

85 months

Sunday 16th May
quotequote all
Cheib said:
I suppose the problem is most of the “participants” in this market are small local solicitors firms....who probably don’t have the scale required to invest in an IT solution. It’s the old “Turkey voting for Christmas” scenario....none of them will move to make something more efficient that is probably a relatively good fee earner for the business.
Weren't "conveyancing factories" meant to fix this? One of my daughters used one, bounced into it by her Building Society. She was a first time buyer, but the sellers had an onward chain. The outfit she dealt with seemed pretty pushy - I guess, apart from anything else, they need their fee ASAP.


Selling late father-in-laws house last year we used his old family solicitor who was a bit slow. The estate agent chased the arse off everyone though - we had to tell her to back off at one point when she chased our solicitor the day after he'd been sent something, although we noted that he was quick enough to complain about being chased!

Sporky

1,593 posts

30 months

Sunday 16th May
quotequote all
Cheib said:
I suppose the problem is most of the “participants” in this market are small local solicitors firms....who probably don’t have the scale required to invest in an IT solution. It’s the old “Turkey voting for Christmas” scenario....none of them will move to make something more efficient that is probably a relatively good fee earner for the business.
But they could do more of it if each transaction was quicker and more easily managed.

edc

8,319 posts

217 months

Sunday 16th May
quotequote all
Sporky said:
We bought a chain-free house, and weren't selling ours. Still didn't get the keys until 5pm, because the person at the estate agent who got the call to release them didn't think to tell us, our solicitor, or anyone else... That could have been disastrous if we'd been trying to move in that day.
I bought an end of chain house too. This sounds more like your solicitors fault. They are the ones that are channelling the funds on your behalf. The estate agents should be one of the last parties to know.

Fast Bug

9,390 posts

127 months

Sunday 16th May
quotequote all
Needing original copies of documents slows things up as well. The guy were buying from has moved abroad and it took over a week for the original copies to arrive. The solicitors then sat on their hands waiting for the paperwork to arrive, even though they had been sent copies by email

Sporky

1,593 posts

30 months

Sunday 16th May
quotequote all
edc said:
I bought an end of chain house too. This sounds more like your solicitors fault. They are the ones that are channelling the funds on your behalf. The estate agents should be one of the last parties to know.
Our solicitor had called them several times that day by then - it was down to that one person at the estate agent not passing on the message. Our solicitor never got through to that person. It ended when our solicitor managed to get the seller's solicitor (not for want of previous trying, but the sellers had used a bucket factory) to call the overall head of the estate agency.

Apologies if I wasn't clear - we knew the sale had completed, we just couldn't get the estate agent to release the keys.

Cheib

20,405 posts

141 months

Sunday 16th May
quotequote all
Sporky said:
Cheib said:
I suppose the problem is most of the “participants” in this market are small local solicitors firms....who probably don’t have the scale required to invest in an IT solution. It’s the old “Turkey voting for Christmas” scenario....none of them will move to make something more efficient that is probably a relatively good fee earner for the business.
But they could do more of it if each transaction was quicker and more easily managed.
They could....just don't think it's the mindset. Upfront Capex to lower your fees and chase volume.....just not how a lawyer thinks.

Someone will do it one day. I totally take on board the comments about docs and searches taking time but the actual contracts should be really simple and very quick.

Welshbeef

44,348 posts

164 months

Sunday 16th May
quotequote all
Grr_Boris said:
Jakg said:
You don't need something wizzy to improve the process.

I'm still waiting for the paperwork to go through, and I'm frustrated that it seems there's no process management in place.
I.E. you call up, and after a couple of tries get to talk to the person. And then when you talk to the person and ask whats going on, they realise they sent a letter a couple of weeks ago and haven't heard back yet.
This.

Everything seems to be forced to move at the pace of the slowest solicitor in the chain and you have to be on top of your solicitor constantly, as rarely will they chase anything without pressure from you.
It might also be the fact that the fees are really quite small so urgency /responsiveness doesn’t come into play. Pay more who knows.

But at the end of the day this is an insurance policy really to make the biggest purchase you’ll ever make totally safe.

fesuvious

6,293 posts

207 months

Monday 17th May
quotequote all
Welshbeef said:
It might also be the fact that the fees are really quite small so urgency /responsiveness doesn’t come into play. Pay more who knows.

But at the end of the day this is an insurance policy really to make the biggest purchase you’ll ever make totally safe.
Maybe if conveyancing pulled it's arrogant head out of its lower intestine it might do what movers and many EA's did off the back of the 07-11 financial crisis.

Earnings were destroyed. Firms were skint, broke, or swamped with debt.

Many movers chose to differentiate by service.

As often happens in such scenario they faced a plethora of challengers. Off the back of unemployment it's the norm that many 'buy a van and go for it' businesses start up. So, many firms new they needed to up their game in order to charge significantly more.

For EA's they came into the new world of online agencies. Straight off the crash. I can think of many traditional agencies that had to reinvent and majorly up service levels. This being to get back to good earnings.

For lawyers it was different. Pre 2006 free information wasn't quite so available. Internet still developing.

The lawyers were still used to late eighties and nineties culture. They were revered. See programmes like 'LA Law' for example. The flashy image, BIG earnings and status were gone.

Not only was the money not there so much, but now people were browsing for their answers. Browsing for assistance. Where once they went in for a 1 hour over the desk chat. They now used Google & a website (free info now paid by advertising) or forum.

Conveyancing then also got hit by the rise of the cheapo conveyer belt conveyancers. And referral fee demands. The rates fell, and fell.

Only, unlike those others in the sector instead of any sort of breakaway to raise standard and create a tiered system they're floundering.

The property forums are awash with moaning about 'not being paid enough'. And, 'if they paid more they'd get better service'.

I find it grotesque and laughable at the same time.

It's literally like the solicitors have no clue how to follow a plan of gaining value to their reputation through service. Then raising rates beyond competitors.

I could name many EA's and many Moving Companies who raised their game and thus prices over the ten years post 2009. They charge well, earn well and the ball keeps rolling.

Conveyancers.

Just, bh, whinge and whine.

ETA
I don't think, broadly, lawyers do have any clue how to attract attention or custom.

We had decades where there was barely a need to advertise. Families were loyal. Firms were loyal. From the seventies into the noughties the culture was untouched.

The culture now surrounds referrals and the fees that go with it.

A vicious circle of racing to the bottom. In both price and service.

It's in crisis. It just doesn't realise it.


Edited by fesuvious on Monday 17th May 07:14

LetsTryAgain

2,904 posts

39 months

Monday 17th May
quotequote all
Sporky said:
We bought a chain-free house, and weren't selling ours. Still didn't get the keys until 5pm, because the person at the estate agent who got the call to release them didn't think to tell us, our solicitor, or anyone else... That could have been disastrous if we'd been trying to move in that day.
I had to call our EA to ask if I could get the keys. Having waited most of the day and no-one able to give me an answer I just rang up and said I’m coming for them now.

dirtbiker

686 posts

132 months

Monday 17th May
quotequote all
Wee update on our situation, we managed to find a new buyer by relisting at a fixed price - a nice young couple with a puppy.

Mortgage porting application sorted on Saturday and they're saying six-to-eight weeks to get that to offer stage so hopefully all underway.

Now into researching new garage doors and a wood burner to replace the open fire in the lounge - wife is looking at colours to decorate. All happy!

ooid

2,521 posts

66 months

Monday 17th May
quotequote all


Dictum Meum Pactum: 'My Word Is My Bond'

I wish the property law in England would adapt this attitude too, like in Scots law, once you are getting into buying/selling a property, it's legally binding. No messing around in the last minute.

The issue is the law should dictate a "timeline". Say, once the offer is made, the transaction has to happen in 8 weeks, than you would see all stake-holders would get their acts together. I've seen tremendous speed and improvement on both banks and councils for getting their works done faster than before during this pandemic (searches, and mortgage applications).

fizz47

2,311 posts

176 months

Monday 17th May
quotequote all
Fast Bug said:
Needing original copies of documents slows things up as well. The guy were buying from has moved abroad and it took over a week for the original copies to arrive. The solicitors then sat on their hands waiting for the paperwork to arrive, even though they had been sent copies by email
Similar experience that unless I email them then I won’t get a reply ... even then it’s a one line response...


Which area are you going to end up moving too..


Davey S2

12,593 posts

220 months

Monday 17th May
quotequote all
fesuvious said:
Fast Bug said:
Moving house really is death by a 1000 cuts. I don't know why it's such a drawn out and painful process
Because the overwhelming majority of those paid to work in the entire sector don't fully understand the process.

Moreover can't cross reference the process with empathy for what clients are going through.

There's a woeful lack of consideration.

People are viewed as 'deals' or 'files' not as humans or families.

That's why structured reform that mandates timelines and reference points is desperately needed.
Most of that comes down to price. Residential conveyancing is far too cheap for assets costing hundreds of thousands of pounds.

Our agents fee is £3,000 and our house sold to the first buyers who viewed. Some photos, floor plans and uploading to Rightmove and half an hour showing someone around.

By contrast solicitors fees on a purchase will probably be £600-700.

Agents take very little risk other than for serious misrepresentation.

GreatGranny

7,898 posts

192 months

Monday 17th May
quotequote all
dirtbiker said:
Wee update on our situation, we managed to find a new buyer by relisting at a fixed price - a nice young couple with a puppy.

Mortgage porting application sorted on Saturday and they're saying six-to-eight weeks to get that to offer stage so hopefully all underway.

Now into researching new garage doors and a wood burner to replace the open fire in the lounge - wife is looking at colours to decorate. All happy!
Excellent news dirtbiker.

Looks a good buy.

Regarding kids, you just need to chuck some money at it and get removal company to pack boxes etc..
For an extra grand or so it will take a lot of the stress out of moving.

Remember moving with a 6 year old, 4 years old and 6 month old and we did all the packing ourselves! never again smile


fesuvious

6,293 posts

207 months

Monday 17th May
quotequote all
Davey S2 said:
Most of that comes down to price. Residential conveyancing is far too cheap for assets costing hundreds of thousands of pounds.

Our agents fee is £3,000 and our house sold to the first buyers who viewed. Some photos, floor plans and uploading to Rightmove and half an hour showing someone around.

By contrast solicitors fees on a purchase will probably be £600-700.

Agents take very little risk other than for serious misrepresentation.
I refer you to my post of 7:03.

Right now conveyancing is getting what it deserves.