Wood/Gas Stove in New Build

Wood/Gas Stove in New Build

Author
Discussion

CB07

Original Poster:

406 posts

193 months

Thursday 8th October
quotequote all
The other stove thread has got me. This year I would like to fit a stove in my living room as at the moment it is a bit of a characterless new build box and I think it would really improve things. Lack of a fire is the only part of the house I am disappointed in and I need to do something about it.

Absurdly, like many new builds we have a brick built 'fake' chimney up on the roof, exactly above where a fireplace would be in the lounge, however that is where the fire story ends. There is no chimney breast, or indeed chimney inside to speak of, just a long bland wall of doom.

I approached a firm some time ago about installing a balanced flue gas stove (Vega B7) and for them to make a stud wall fake breast to house it, with beam, brick chamber lining and a slate hearth, gas pipes run round the house etc etc. The price (5k) put me off somewhat given the stove was only 1.5k itself and given it was gas I didn't proceed as really I suppose I would quite like to burn wood.

A couple of questions for the PH collective then. If I installed a wood stove would a black twin wall flue, up the side of the house and presumably terminating past the 'fake' chimney on the roof look bizarre? And would it put future buyers off for being incongruous? Would it really matter as I don't look at that aspect of my house except when getting out of a car it faces the driveway? FWIW If I ran one internally I would then have to box it in on one of the bedrooms above the lounge which would also look odd and Im not really prepared to start messing about upstairs.

Secondly, and I suppose in either case (wood/gas) is a question of cost reduction. I am reasonably DIY confident, would anyone here consider doing the bulk of the fake chimney breast work themselves to reduce costs on the install? It all looks pretty straightforward, build stud box, add plasterboard, chuck in a chamber liner etc etc. Or is that asking for trouble with prospective stove installers?

I want (need) fire, should I forge ahead with gas and keep it looking discrete and enjoy the convenience of cracking it on at a whim but not be able to burn actual physical stuff? Or go wood and just accept the quirk that the builder put a fake chimney on top and live with a socking great flue up the outside wall. Not that it matters hugely as I want to enjoy it but which would future buyers prefer? Which is the better option?

Cheers

Mr Pointy

6,584 posts

119 months

Thursday 8th October
quotequote all
Go for gas: you'll use it far more often.

If you lived in the middle of the countryside & had easy access to wood then a wood burner might be an option but unless you actually want the whole experience of finding/buying wood, storing & drying it, bringing it into the house & cleaning out the ash then stick to gas. If you can get a balanced flue through the wall that makes it an easy install & as you say building a fake recess isn't particulary hard. Just make sure you have the right clearance around the stove.

Welshbeef

42,360 posts

158 months

Thursday 8th October
quotequote all
Go for wood it’s special nothing that has can imitate.

The flickering the inherent and long lasting warmth

Catz

4,607 posts

171 months

Thursday 8th October
quotequote all
No idea about cost but could you build an external “chimney” to hide the flue outside? Could it be combined with the false chimney top?

It’s tricky to say what a future potential buyer would want. I adore our woodburner but I have friends who just don’t see the point of having a big, black firebox inside and wood with all those nasty insects crawling about. laugh

CB07

Original Poster:

406 posts

193 months

Thursday 8th October
quotequote all
Catz said:
No idea about cost but could you build an external “chimney” to hide the flue outside? Could it be combined with the false chimney top?
Would encroach on the driveway which is tight enough as it is so not an option unfortunately, I guess that puts you in the 'it will look odd' camp biggrin

Catz

4,607 posts

171 months

Thursday 8th October
quotequote all
CB07 said:
Catz said:
No idea about cost but could you build an external “chimney” to hide the flue outside? Could it be combined with the false chimney top?
Would encroach on the driveway which is tight enough as it is so not an option unfortunately, I guess that puts you in the 'it will look odd' camp biggrin
Not necessarily, it won’t look as neat up an external wall but it saves losing space inside and upstairs. Who stands and stares at the outside of their house anyway?
You may need to factor in a bend around your eaves, depends on the style of house I guess.
A house along the road has an external flue to the side of their house and it’s not that offensive. I think they might have been better with matt black flue rather than stainless steel but that’s just my opinion.

rxe

4,088 posts

63 months

Thursday 8th October
quotequote all
Catz said:
Not necessarily, it won’t look as neat up an external wall but it saves losing space inside and upstairs. Who stands and stares at the outside of their house anyway?
You may need to factor in a bend around your eaves, depends on the style of house I guess.
A house along the road has an external flue to the side of their house and it’s not that offensive. I think they might have been better with matt black flue rather than stainless steel but that’s just my opinion.
IMO your strategy depends on the specifics.

Wood or gas? Do you have wood? (see thread on here!). If you can get wood cheaply, go for it - but be aware how much you'll get through if you use it regularly.

Will the external flue look odd? Probably, but it might be OK. Parents in law have one that make the place look like one of Saddam Husseins supergun projects.

Can you actually get it inside? Depends on how fake your chimney is. If it has a hollow core (probably does because that would be the cheapest way of doing it, can you run a 6" flue up it from the attic? If yes, the game is on - stick the stove in a corner, and have a nice (polished, feature quality) flue going up the corner on both floors. You don't lose much space (its the corner) and the upstairs gets toasty when you're burning. As the flue goes into the attic, transition to a flexi double lined stainless jobby and out to the chimney.


Mr Pointy

6,584 posts

119 months

Thursday 8th October
quotequote all
There's a bunch of pictures showing external flues here:

https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffnt&q=woodburner+ex...

Some are almost acceptable but the majority just look horrendous: the first reaction of the vast majority of people is going to "that's ugly". You're going to be looking at it for 365 days a year wheras the woodburner will be lit between October & March (roughly). With a gas fire if you fancy flames in the evening in August you can just press the remote & there they are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4T5uJMtmjw

Don't even think about trying to put the flue internally; it's a substantial amount of work & disruption & the regs are very strict.

Lord Marylebone

11,461 posts

140 months

Thursday 8th October
quotequote all
CB07 said:
The other stove thread has got me. This year I would like to fit a stove in my living room as at the moment it is a bit of a characterless new build box and I think it would really improve things. Lack of a fire is the only part of the house I am disappointed in and I need to do something about it.

Absurdly, like many new builds we have a brick built 'fake' chimney up on the roof, exactly above where a fireplace would be in the lounge, however that is where the fire story ends. There is no chimney breast, or indeed chimney inside to speak of, just a long bland wall of doom.

I approached a firm some time ago about installing a balanced flue gas stove (Vega B7) and for them to make a stud wall fake breast to house it, with beam, brick chamber lining and a slate hearth, gas pipes run round the house etc etc. The price (5k) put me off somewhat given the stove was only 1.5k itself and given it was gas I didn't proceed as really I suppose I would quite like to burn wood.

A couple of questions for the PH collective then. If I installed a wood stove would a black twin wall flue, up the side of the house and presumably terminating past the 'fake' chimney on the roof look bizarre? And would it put future buyers off for being incongruous? Would it really matter as I don't look at that aspect of my house except when getting out of a car it faces the driveway? FWIW If I ran one internally I would then have to box it in on one of the bedrooms above the lounge which would also look odd and Im not really prepared to start messing about upstairs.

Secondly, and I suppose in either case (wood/gas) is a question of cost reduction. I am reasonably DIY confident, would anyone here consider doing the bulk of the fake chimney breast work themselves to reduce costs on the install? It all looks pretty straightforward, build stud box, add plasterboard, chuck in a chamber liner etc etc. Or is that asking for trouble with prospective stove installers?

I want (need) fire, should I forge ahead with gas and keep it looking discrete and enjoy the convenience of cracking it on at a whim but not be able to burn actual physical stuff? Or go wood and just accept the quirk that the builder put a fake chimney on top and live with a socking great flue up the outside wall. Not that it matters hugely as I want to enjoy it but which would future buyers prefer? Which is the better option?

Cheers
I'm currently in the process of building a new house, and I too wanted a woodburner as I love them. It will also look good in the corner of my kitchen/diner/snug room.

Gas would be a very poor alternative in my opinion. Just not the same.

I also have two 'fake' brick chimneys at each gable end of the house.

The architects have routed the flue from the stove up though my kitchen ceiling in the corner (as the stove is in the corner), up through a built in wardrobe upstairs in a bedroom, then up into the loft and the pipe will then angle slightly to meet the base of the fake chimney and go up through the fake chimney.... This will clearly mean the chimney is no longer fake.

The flue is twin wall all the way up.

Can you not just do something similar?

CB07

Original Poster:

406 posts

193 months

Thursday 8th October
quotequote all
In terms of wood. No problem getting that at all. However having looked at those flue photos I am back to dead against it going up for the outside!

I suppose I could try and run it inside, however I have just been into the loft and there appears to be no way to access inside the chimney at all. So all in all it’s utterly redundant. The flue could just come out of the roof near it though, but it means boxing it in etc in one of the bedrooms.

Have a company coming to survey in a week or so to explore possibilities and want to be armed!

Has anyone got some install photos of a gas one out of interest? The exit appears to look just like a boiler so in terms of actual cutting about it looks like it’s just a hole in the wall and off you go.

Photo for context.. apologies it’s on its side!

Cheers


Mr Pointy

6,584 posts

119 months

Thursday 8th October
quotequote all
CB07 said:
I suppose I could try and run it inside, however I have just been into the loft and there appears to be no way to access inside the chimney at all. So all in all it’s utterly redundant. The flue could just come out of the roof near it though, but it means boxing it in etc in one of the bedrooms.
You may find your "chimney" is actually made of fibreglass.

CB07 said:
IHas anyone got some install photos of a gas one out of interest? The exit appears to look just like a boiler so in terms of actual cutting about it looks like it’s just a hole in the wall and off you go.
Here's the installation manual for a balanced flue Yeoman CL8; flue installation is around pages 16 & 22:
https://www.yeomanstoves.co.uk/download/Gas%20Stov...

lost in espace

5,120 posts

167 months

Thursday 8th October
quotequote all
I have a 5kw wood stove and a big lounge in a new house, brick/block construction with big windows both sides. We get too hot, quickly! So learn from my experience!

Gas far easier, log stoves bad for your health too supposedly.

Electronicpants

2,105 posts

148 months

Thursday 8th October
quotequote all
We have a woodburner, for heat output, and looks it's great, however no one apart from myself seems able to light it or keep it going, therefore I have the constant job of getting it going and keeping it going, my wife or kids just tell Alexa to "turn the heating up" instead of getting off their arse and putting wood in the stove.

So while I love the thing, coming in on a Tuesday night at 6.30pm, getting it going, and keeping it going while I'm trying to do 10 other things is a royal pain in the bum, next time I'd go gas, and I've got an unlimited supply of free wood! I'd imagine if you have more time on your hands or spend a lot of time about the house then it would be much easier.


CB07

Original Poster:

406 posts

193 months

Friday 9th October
quotequote all
Taking it then that a balanced flue stove is altogether just easier. Today I have had a couple of conversations with online stove retailers. I have been advised that I can buy the stove, get it to the stage it needs a gas guy to come and wire it all up, and have then have him sign it all off?

Does anyone know if that is actually true? I.E can I reasonably install myself by following the instructions, basically cut the hole in the wall make sure all the combustible regs apply etc, and then let a gas chap do his bit from there and notify building control etc with the safety cert? Or is this just nonsense by the online stove retailers?

liking the look of the Yeoman CL that was mentioned above, the Gazco Marlborough or more on the budget side Burley Thurlby.


Lord Marylebone

11,461 posts

140 months

Friday 9th October
quotequote all
CB07 said:
Taking it then that a balanced flue stove is altogether just easier. Today I have had a couple of conversations with online stove retailers. I have been advised that I can buy the stove, get it to the stage it needs a gas guy to come and wire it all up, and have then have him sign it all off?

Does anyone know if that is actually true? I.E can I reasonably install myself by following the instructions, basically cut the hole in the wall make sure all the combustible regs apply etc, and then let a gas chap do his bit from there and notify building control etc with the safety cert? Or is this just nonsense by the online stove retailers?

liking the look of the Yeoman CL that was mentioned above, the Gazco Marlborough or more on the budget side Burley Thurlby.
It's fine.

I know several builders who install entire central heating systems including the gas boilers and pipework. They just then get a Gas Safe engineer to check it and connect up the last bit of gas supply pipe and commission it.

As long as it gets inspected and signed off by a Gas Safe chap at the end before use, its good to go.

Mr Pointy

6,584 posts

119 months

Friday 9th October
quotequote all
A couple of the pictures of the Marlborough show it free standing on a hearth & not mounted is a recess so you might even get away with not building a false chimney breast. Personally I think they look better in a recess though.

https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffcm&q=Gazco+Marlbor...

If you do get one make sure you add the optional remote control kit as the control knob is hidden away at the bottom & is a right pain to use.

ajap1979

4,352 posts

147 months

Friday 9th October
quotequote all
Mr Pointy said:
If you lived in the middle of the countryside & had easy access to wood then a wood burner might be an option but unless you actually want the whole experience of finding/buying wood, storing & drying it, bringing it into the house & cleaning out the ash then stick to gas.
It's incredibly easy to buy wood these days. Our guy drops a 300kg bulk bag outside the house, costs £80 for kiln dried ash, plus £3 per bag of kindling. He'll stack it for an extra £10. Cleaning the stove is easy, just buy an ash hoover and clean it out once or twice a week. It's worth the minimal hassle.

Mr Pointy

6,584 posts

119 months

Friday 9th October
quotequote all
ajap1979 said:
Mr Pointy said:
If you lived in the middle of the countryside & had easy access to wood then a wood burner might be an option but unless you actually want the whole experience of finding/buying wood, storing & drying it, bringing it into the house & cleaning out the ash then stick to gas.
It's incredibly easy to buy wood these days. Our guy drops a 300kg bulk bag outside the house, costs £80 for kiln dried ash, plus £3 per bag of kindling. He'll stack it for an extra £10. Cleaning the stove is easy, just buy an ash hoover and clean it out once or twice a week. It's worth the minimal hassle.
I don't disagree with you, but you surely cannot deny that you wouldn't light your fire for a couple of hours on a slightly chilly evening in September (we've had a couple). If the stove isn't one of your primary heat sources (ie you've got central heating) then in the main it's more for effect than anything else. A neighbour has a 5kW woodburner in their lounge & it's way too powerful so they end up with just a couple of logs on it.

In the right situation they are fantastic (I even love the smell of the smoke from the neighbour) but in a town or city & especially a new build I still reckon you get more actual round year use from a gas stove.

CB07

Original Poster:

406 posts

193 months

Friday 9th October
quotequote all
going on other comments on here I think it will almost certainly be gas. Off to view some live tomorrow and unless they look bad I think I will be making my decision on that. At the moment I am at home a lot more due to office covid rotation so the thought and romance of a real one is on my mind.

However that will all change when offices go back to normal, and at that stage coming in from a commute, rain and in the depths of a miserable winter, flicking a switch sounds a lot better than cleaning out a fire and starting it each night at 8pm! Glass of red, some flames and heat and an easy life is realistically what I am after.

Probable build thread incoming if I do this all myself.

ST12AT

369 posts

127 months

Friday 9th October
quotequote all
Any Gas Safe engineer with a modicum of sense would entertain ‘signing off’ work carried out by a DIYer (I mean that term it’s actual sense rather than a derogatory way!)

It would be like carrying out your own breast augmentation and having a random surgeon whose never met you before giving them a quick squeeze and saying “jobs a gooden”.

Some things are definitely work DIYing, gas is most definitely not.