Buying land

Author
Discussion

Lord Marylebone

11,477 posts

140 months

Sunday 25th October
quotequote all
TotalControl said:
Anyone here do this?
Yes. Done it a few times.

Bought an old closed down working mens club, knocked it down and sold the land off as 6 building plots.

Then bought an closed pub which had a big garden and car park and did the same. Knocked it down and sold off 6 building plots.

Last year bought a big field in a nice village, with space (potentially) for 45-50 decent size detached houses. Just recently secured planning permission for 9 homes, which I will shortly be selling of as building plots. Then will be applying for a another 9 and so on. This one was a real gamble as there was a good chance that permission would not be forthcoming.

Promised Land

3,653 posts

169 months

Sunday 25th October
quotequote all
bimsb6 said:
So would you be happy buying anything else like that? Maybe your home ?
Homes, classic cars are a bit different to land buying wouldn’t you say?

http://fishergerman.reapitcloud.com/fsgrps/pdf.php...

3 1/2 acres of agricultural land not far from me sold for £48k with a 25% uplift for 15 years.

Chances are nothing will happen at all in 15 years, one up the road from that was a 25 year term backing onto a housing estate so that could’ve been looked at for development as a new infill plot was built 2/3 years ago just a field away.


shedweller

214 posts

71 months

Sunday 25th October
quotequote all
blueg33 said:
A long list of investigations to ensure that it’s developable and not financial suicide, these need paying for up front at risk. Then you need to pay designers, planning consultants and the application fee. At the end of all that you have a planning permission.

How much would this cost (ballpark) for the following job...
I own a small peice of land with some existing structures (storage sheds) on it and would love to be able to build a home there for my family - And i have wondered whether it would be possible to try for planning.
Looking at the portal shows some history from a few years ago (with some success) but the site isn't without its challenges (it is officially considered floody but has been raised +aonb)

I appreciate that it is a how long is a peice of string question but a small inheritance means we might be able to afford it next year and getting my head around the process and numbers involved!

Lord Marylebone

11,477 posts

140 months

Sunday 25th October
quotequote all
shedweller said:
How much would this cost (ballpark) for the following job...
I own a small peice of land with some existing structures (storage sheds) on it and would love to be able to build a home there for my family - And i have wondered whether it would be possible to try for planning.
Looking at the portal shows some history from a few years ago (with some success) but the site isn't without its challenges (it is officially considered floody but has been raised +aonb)

I appreciate that it is a how long is a peice of string question but a small inheritance means we might be able to afford it next year and getting my head around the process and numbers involved!
You could get a planning consultant to put something together, apply for permission, and argue the case for around £2-3k ish.

They could give you an idea of the likelihood of success before they start, but ultimately you would have to accept you were spending the money at risk with no guarantees of a positive result.

Equus

9,700 posts

61 months

Sunday 25th October
quotequote all
shedweller said:
I own a small peice of land with some existing structures (storage sheds) on it and would love to be able to build a home there for my family - And i have wondered whether it would be possible to try for planning.
You need to take it one step at a time.

Alarm bells are already ringing (AONB, flood risk), so no point in throwing good money after bad.

First thing is to get a preliminary Planning appraisal, which will cost a 3-figure sum and which will tell you:
a) Whether the site stands some chance, or whether you're wasting your time completely and;
b) What work (and therefore cost) would be involved in putting together a full application package.

PM me if you wish - it's what we do.

shedweller

214 posts

71 months

Sunday 25th October
quotequote all
Equus said:
You need to take it one step at a time.

Alarm bells are already ringing (AONB, flood risk), so no point in throwing good money after bad.

First thing is to get a preliminary Planning appraisal, which will cost a 3-figure sum and which will tell you:
a) Whether the site stands some chance, or whether you're wasting your time completely and;
b) What work (and therefore cost) would be involved in putting together a full application package.

PM me if you wish - it's what we do.
I can't even do multiple quotes so clearly I will need some help with planning.
Thank you for your responses gentlemen - Equus I will pm you in a few weeks once I have sorted some family stuff,

Alarm bells, Yes but I believe the flood risk part could be resolved with professional help..... AONB and just outside the village boundary in E Devon could prove tricky?!?

One other question - if Equus was out of the equation for some reason how do you know if a planning consultant is any good at their job?
If I was to Google local planning consultants how do you measure their performance/knowledge etc etc beyond professional qualifications (or are these enough)
Is it a bit like tradesman where recomendation is key?

I fully understand that professional services cost and we have money to spend as currently we are in rented and have savings to buy but finding out if this was a goer would be helpful as we don't fancy a new build estate home which most people in similar situations around here are being pushed into!

Equus

9,700 posts

61 months

Sunday 25th October
quotequote all
In terms of assessing the competence of a Planning Consultant, professional qualifications (MRTPI) are a damned good start... you'd be astonished how many 'Planning Consultants' are nothing of the sort. Unlike 'Architect', it's not a legally protected title, so any Tom, Dick or unqualified Plans Drawer can style themselves as a 'Planning Consultant' (needless to say, we have both RTPI Chartered Town Planner and RIBA/ARB Chartered Architects Practice status).

Recommendation or recent track record with a particular Authority is not necessarily a good indicator, since some jobs are easy and other's aren't. Blueg33 will tell you that his company (as a developer) hasn't lost a Planning application since forever, because they do all the work up front and never actually get to an application unless they have a high certainty of success. We (as a planning consultancy) frequently get clients who we advise they're onto a loser, but they want us to try it anyway.


Edited by Equus on Sunday 25th October 20:11

blueg33

24,786 posts

184 months

Sunday 25th October
quotequote all
Planning consultant I would use is Paul Fong at Ridge. Equus and I have worked with him in the past. He has done a fair amount in Devon.

Equus

9,700 posts

61 months

Sunday 25th October
quotequote all
blueg33 said:
Planning consultant I would use is Paul Fong at Ridge. Equus and I have worked with him in the past. He has done a fair amount in Devon.
Yep, I can second Paul Fong.

blueg33

24,786 posts

184 months

Sunday 25th October
quotequote all
Equus is correct. Development 101. Don’t make an application you think you will lose and think twice if you know you will have a battle.

blueg33

24,786 posts

184 months

Sunday 25th October
quotequote all
Equus said:
blueg33 said:
Planning consultant I would use is Paul Fong at Ridge. Equus and I have worked with him in the past. He has done a fair amount in Devon.
Yep, I can second Paul Fong.
I would also recommend Equus.



sfella

397 posts

68 months

Sunday 25th October
quotequote all
blueg33 said:
Equus is correct. Development 101. Don’t make an application you think you will lose and think twice if you know you will have a battle.
Makes it easy doing all the work upfront and going in 99% but spending someone else's money is easy, the guys asking here are spending their own money.

Equus

9,700 posts

61 months

Sunday 25th October
quotequote all
sfella said:
Makes it easy doing all the work upfront and going in 99% but spending someone else's money is easy, the guys asking here are spending their own money.
Yes, that's the difference between the job I used to do (working for a developer, and where I frequently used Paul Fong's services myself) and the one I do now.

Working for one of the biggest developers in the country, if we needed a specialist report, or high quality presentation, we just commissioned it - almost no expense spared. And the LPA's knew perfectly well that we outgunned them, too... no problem to us wheeling out the best Planning Barrister that money could buy, whereas they are working to strict (non-existent!) legal budgets.

These days, working mainly for individuals, I seem to spend half my life bickering with LPA's over whether we need a bat report, tree survey, or flood risk assessment, 'cos the client is baulking at the extra £few hundred that even a basic such document will cost.

I'd be lying if I said that counting the pennies that way doesn't reduce your chances of success, though.

ben5575

3,391 posts

181 months

Sunday 25th October
quotequote all
Equus said:
...no problem to us wheeling out the best Planning Barrister that money could buy...
Kit Kat?

shedweller

214 posts

71 months

Sunday 25th October
quotequote all
Equus said:
In terms of assessing the competence of a Planning Consultant, professional qualifications (MRTPI) are a damned good start... you'd be astonished how many 'Planning Consultants' are nothing of the sort. Unlike 'Architect', it's not a legally protected title, so any Tom, Dick or unqualified Plans Drawer can style themselves as a 'Planning Consultant' (needless to say, we have both RTPI Chartered Town Planner and RIBA/ARB Chartered Architects Practice status).

Recommendation or recent track record with a particular Authority is not necessarily a good indicator, since some jobs are easy and other's aren't. Blueg33 will tell you that his company (as a developer) hasn't lost a Planning application since forever, because they do all the work up front and never actually get to an application unless they have a high certainty of success. We (as a planning consultancy) frequently get clients who we advise they're onto a loser, but they want us to try it anyway.


Edited by Equus on Sunday 25th October 20:11
Thanks again for the concise answer, I believe I have (casually) met a plan drawer that calls themselves a planning consultant recently whom mostly seems to do extensions on Grade 2 cottages which isn't what I am looking for, as despite my relative ignorance on this subject do know when someone is telling me what they think I want to hear.
Surely if a few £££ is required for reports and they can help your case then the cost/value ratio is worthwhile and it's just the risk assessment that needs to be right.



AndyC_123

894 posts

114 months

Sunday 25th October
quotequote all
Equus said:
Are you aware that there's a process of 'deemed discharge' for planning conditions, if the LPA is unresponsive?
That's interesting

We have PP in for an agricultural shed (they wouldn't allow permitted development) - application went in July and target decision date 1st Sept. Heard nothing - is this worth looking into do you think?

I don't want to upset the planners...

Equus

9,700 posts

61 months

Sunday 25th October
quotequote all
ben5575 said:
Kit Kat?
His reputation possibly marks him out for inquiries, but we seldom if ever ended up there. The idea is obviously to forestall problems before they get that far. He's obviously extremely good, but I'm not sure I'd say he's the best analytically. We used Neil Cameron a few times, from memory.

My favourite was a female barrister who shall remain nameless, but that's not because she was the best - it's because she was seriously hot: she had a real dominatrix vibe about her (miniskirts with zips up the side and school m'am glasses to go with the gown and wig in court), but a really nice, down-to-earth personality (many barristers - like surgeons - can be a bit full of their own importance, IME). Always needed a cold shower after I'd had a meeting with Ms. C. smile

shedweller said:
Surely if a few £££ is required for reports and they can help your case then the cost/value ratio is worthwhile and it's just the risk assessment that needs to be right.
If you have the money, yes, but in fairness it can be difficult to quantify the benefit, and most private clients can't see beyond the additional cost. In most cases, the question from your average householder applicant is: 'do we actually have to have it', and if your answer is 'well, no, but...' they don't hear beyond the 'no..'

Equus

9,700 posts

61 months

Sunday 25th October
quotequote all
AndyC_123 said:
We have PP in for an agricultural shed (they wouldn't allow permitted development) - application went in July and target decision date 1st Sept. Heard nothing - is this worth looking into do you think?
Planning application?

The link I gave was for 'deemed discharge' of Planning conditions (in which case, it depends on the circumstances... but it's there if you need it. Obviously, the fact that discharge of conditions was always a low priority is the reason this legislation was brought in. Things are difficult for LPA's, at the moment, but just the threat of it might focus their minds a bit).

If it's a Planning application you're stalled on, then it's a different bag of badgers... there is no 'deemed approval' route (at present - though it's something Boris' Clown Posse have suggested) so your only option would be to appeal on the grounds of non-determination, which seldom makes sense.

Have they not even asked you for a formal extension of time?

bobtail4x4

2,710 posts

69 months

Sunday 25th October
quotequote all
I believe you can ask for the fee back if the application isnt determined after a certain time.

AndyC_123

894 posts

114 months

Sunday 25th October
quotequote all
Equus said:
Planning application?

The link I gave was for 'deemed discharge' of Planning conditions (in which case, it depends on the circumstances... but it's there if you need it. Obviously, the fact that discharge of conditions was always a low priority is the reason this legislation was brought in. Things are difficult for LPA's, at the moment, but just the threat of it might focus their minds a bit).

If it's a Planning application you're stalled on, then it's a different bag of badgers... there is no 'deemed approval' route (at present - though it's something Boris' Clown Posse have suggested) so your only option would be to appeal on the grounds of non-determination, which seldom makes sense.

Have they not even asked you for a formal extension of time?
Ah ok thank you, I misunderstood.

Had a generic email on 11th Sept from council saying sorry we're running behind, it was simple to become Covid equipped but they can't handle the work load. Nothing apart from that