Solar Panels?

Author
Discussion

g40steve

799 posts

148 months

Wednesday 28th September 2022
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markiii said:
i keep hearing people say they want to reduce their eco impact, has anyone analysed the eco cost of making the panels and batteries to determine if that's actually true, my money is on not
If you want to get that deep no chance you buying an electric car any time soon!

They are not ‘green’ & the adverts are greenwashing the bigger picture.

Oh & solar passed 2MW since July at the weekend laugh

markiii

2,465 posts

180 months

Wednesday 28th September 2022
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Your right there isnt

Arnold Cunningham

3,333 posts

239 months

Wednesday 28th September 2022
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Arnold Cunningham said:
Yes. In winter months I’d plan to recharge off whatever the best off peak deal available is.

And. It’s OK. I’ve still got, I think, 1860hp “in” the garage with total capacity somewhere north of 20 litres. I’m still a petrolhead, I hope.
78,000 duckpower.

dmsims

5,695 posts

253 months

Friday 30th September 2022
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From a possible 800W of panels ...........

Evanivitch

15,793 posts

108 months

Friday 30th September 2022
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g40steve said:
markiii said:
i keep hearing people say they want to reduce their eco impact, has anyone analysed the eco cost of making the panels and batteries to determine if that's actually true, my money is on not
If you want to get that deep no chance you buying an electric car any time soon!

They are not ‘green’ & the adverts are greenwashing the bigger picture.

Oh & solar passed 2MW since July at the weekend laugh
The adverts? Why don't you read the dozen or so studies that consider the whole lifecycle analysis and environmental impact of electric cars versus ICE, and all come out in favour of EV...

And yes, loads of people have measured the eco cost of solar. And yes, when compared to current UK energy mix solar panels do reduce environmental impact. Batteries don't generate electricity, but they do maximise use of renewable energy and minimise the use of diesel/OCGT STOR powerstations that typically meet our evening demand.

pquinn

5,357 posts

32 months

Friday 30th September 2022
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Evanivitch said:
The adverts? Why don't you read the dozen or so studies that consider the whole lifecycle analysis and environmental impact of electric cars versus ICE, and all come out in favour of EV...
...if you look over a long enough lifespan...

It's like a lot of things, calculate the energy input in manufacturing then look how long it takes to recover/save that embedded cost.

Solar isn't exactly perfect on that front, then again double glazing, or insulation materials or anything else have the same issue if you dig into the full end to end costs.

Evanivitch

15,793 posts

108 months

Friday 30th September 2022
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pquinn said:
...if you look over a long enough lifespan...
Of a car? Or of solar panels? Both of which are easily covered in the lifecycle analysis papers.

pquinn said:
It's like a lot of things, calculate the energy input in manufacturing then look how long it takes to recover/save that embedded cost.

Solar isn't exactly perfect on that front, then again double glazing, or insulation materials or anything else have the same issue if you dig into the full end to end costs.
Solar isn't perfect, depends what you compare it to? The fact the UK has a relatively low-carbon grid for an industrialised country and has low coal use, means that solar takes increasingly longer to repay it's environmental impact in the UK. But it's still miles ahead of sustaining the grid on gas imports.

ScarlettRobertson

1 posts

5 months

Friday 30th September 2022
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In my opinion, solar panels would be a very profitable power supply system. They are ecological, and they are also a very powerful source of electricity. Still, I am not sure they can provide the whole complex because it depends on the capacity, size, and several installed solar panels. My friends have recently installed new panels; they say they are very happy with their choice. They ordered it on the site luminsmart.com. There is a wide range of products, new technologies, and attractive prices.

Edited by ScarlettRobertson on Monday 3rd October 01:01

TriumphStag3.0V8

2,936 posts

67 months

Friday 30th September 2022
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dmsims said:


From a possible 800W of panels ...........
If I am reading that right, your battery is discharging to the grid???????

dmsims

5,695 posts

253 months

Saturday 1st October 2022
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TriumphStag3.0V8 said:
dmsims said:


From a possible 800W of panels ...........
If I am reading that right, your battery is discharging to the grid???????
That's what normally happens........

Previous

1,247 posts

140 months

Saturday 1st October 2022
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Second quote has come in:

10x 395w Ja panels
9.5 givenergy battery
Solis 3.6kw mppt (I've no idea what this is)
Givenergy 3.0kw coupled charge inverter
All installed, scaffolding etc

£12,300 installed

Previous quote was £11,300 with a 6.5kw growatt battery instead.

No idea if either are any good price wise... what do the resident PH experts think?

We're quite frugal users - circa 2,800kw per year for a family of 3 in a 4 bed detached (South west). Roof is south facing, circa 20 degrees off towards the south west).No EV (but maybe one day).


Edited by Previous on Saturday 1st October 09:25

dmsims

5,695 posts

253 months

Saturday 1st October 2022
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Why do they want to use a seprate MPPT solar controller ?

Retail cost for the kit could be
Panels £1500
Hybrid Inverter £1000
Battery £4000
+ ancilliaries (a few hundred)

What is your payback ?

Previous said:
Second quote has come in:

10x 395w Ja panels
9.5 givenergy battery
Solis 3.6kw mppt (I've no idea what this is)
Givenergy 3.0kw coupled charge inverter
All installed, scaffolding etc

£12,300 installed

Previous

1,247 posts

140 months

Saturday 1st October 2022
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Re mppt. Not sure.... I'm starting out on this journey, still a lot to learn.

On the payback, the lower quote indicated £1400 saving per year, based upon the panels plus battery and the SEG. That'd give a payback of 8 years

Their calcs are based upon solar providing 110% of my annual consumption and its fair to say I'm sceptical of this - 2/3 seems about right, which would put payback at 12 years plus.

Pistonsquirter

306 posts

25 months

Saturday 1st October 2022
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MPPT is the type of battery charger. Eg you can get not MPPT chargers which are less good

dmsims

5,695 posts

253 months

Saturday 1st October 2022
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Pistonsquirter said:
MPPT is the type of battery charger.
It's a type of Solar charge controller, what happens if there are no batteries ? (don't answer that)

TriumphStag3.0V8

2,936 posts

67 months

Saturday 1st October 2022
quotequote all
dmsims said:
TriumphStag3.0V8 said:
dmsims said:


From a possible 800W of panels ...........
If I am reading that right, your battery is discharging to the grid???????
That's what normally happens........
Not trying to be a dick here, but it shouldn't. The point of the battery is it sits there collecting excess generation for your later use, rather than letting it go out to the grid (effectively wasted) and should be topping up your use over and above what the panels are providing only.

It's pointless having a battery if it just discharges to the grid. Something is definately wrong there.

You should only be exporting to the grid if the panels are producing more than you are using and the battery is full.

Edited by TriumphStag3.0V8 on Saturday 1st October 10:08

jmn

806 posts

266 months

Saturday 1st October 2022
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Given that savings rates are increasing should ROI calculations include loss of interest on the installation cost which could otherwise have been invested?

dmsims

5,695 posts

253 months

Saturday 1st October 2022
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If you look at the demand there is no excess generation

Nothing to see here......

TriumphStag3.0V8 said:
Not trying to be a dick here, but it shouldn't. The point of the battery is it sits there collecting excess generation for your later use, rather than letting it go out to the grid (effectively wasted) and should be topping up your use over and above what the panels are providing only.

It's pointless having a battery if it just discharges to the grid. Something is definately wrong there.

You should only be exporting to the grid if the panels are producing more than you are using and the battery is full.

Edited by TriumphStag3.0V8 on Saturday 1st October 10:08

OutInTheShed

3,825 posts

12 months

Saturday 1st October 2022
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dmsims said:
Pistonsquirter said:
MPPT is the type of battery charger.
It's a type of Solar charge controller, what happens if there are no batteries ? (don't answer that)
To be exact, MPPT, maximum power point tracking is a means of extracting the optimum power from solar panels.
It varies the current drawn to keep the voltage right for max power.
Can also be used on other power sources like wind turbines.

I think it's pretty standard in anything that works with solar panels apart from your £20 chinese battery charging units these days.
some of which are labelled MPPT, but don't track max power in any meaningful way.

There are variations, from the typical 'whole system' MPPT, to maximising individual panels or even working at cell level.

Previous

1,247 posts

140 months

Saturday 1st October 2022
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jmn said:
Given that savings rates are increasing should ROI calculations include loss of interest on the installation cost which could otherwise have been invested?
Possibly. Difficult to gauge though as various returns will be different for different people and different investments. I suppose an average could be taken.

In our case I'm thinking about just paying a £10k off the mortgage instead. @ circa 1.9% the saving isn't huge, but the fixed rate ends in 3 .5 years. A £10k overpayment against something like 4%,5% or 6% 20 year term mortgage starts to look attractive vs solar.

Horses for courses.