Are Electric Cars the biggest con on the planet???

Are Electric Cars the biggest con on the planet???

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whirlybird

Original Poster:

607 posts

174 months

Saturday 6th August 2022
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I have deleted my initial message from this topic.
The "word police" deleted my initial op, its now (amended) on page 7

[footnote]Edited by whirlybird on Monday 8th August 13:06[/footnote

There seems to be a push to convert existing classics into EV, & Planet Friendly transport !!!
A company in London and I am sure in many other places can convert said classic for around £30,000 (FFS)
Now how about crunching these numbers !!! take a Mini, a rebuilt A- Series, I guess costs about £3000 + - ?
leaving £27,000 for lovely PETROL, and even at today's rip-off fuel prices would give you approximately 120,000 miles, with no fear of
Range Anxiety,
If anybody actually think they're saving the planet by buying a huge EV BMW X3 then I sorry, but simply cannot agree ( This is the clean version ) Discuss.

Edited by whirlybird on Monday 8th August 19:40

Jimbo.

3,839 posts

176 months

Saturday 6th August 2022
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School holiday boredom already?

Electrics not for me

69 posts

8 months

Saturday 6th August 2022
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Hear hear. Politics aside (as much as possible) why on Earth would we choose to put levies on necessities like electricity to cook and keep warm, plus bully people into giving up the vehicles they love for electric cars they will never be able to afford, plus ruin millions of peoples' lives in other ways, when the UK makes 0.9% of the world's pollution? UNTIL the countries currently building coal stations rapidly and the ones with countless ancient bangers running around their cities change their ways, you may as well tell your kid not to pee in the ocean in the UK. Electric cars are not the long term answer. I have owned 2 and driven several. Yes they have advantages but far too many bad points.

Electrics not for me

69 posts

8 months

Saturday 6th August 2022
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Jimbo. said:
School holiday boredom already?
He is right. Electric cars will be a short term mistake.

Randy Winkman

13,437 posts

176 months

Saturday 6th August 2022
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Lots of people like buying new cars. That's just the way it is. So the issue is, which new option is best for the environment?

Nickbrapp

5,037 posts

117 months

Saturday 6th August 2022
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I’m sure if we had all had EVS before and where now talking about building massive rigs to drill into the sea bed to suck out dead dinosaurs, that sometimes spill some into the sea killing millions of birds, coral and fish, before refining it into a explosive liquid to the fill up a tank with it every few hundred miles and then polluting the air in our cities with the fumes and gases which then warm up the planet we would think it was a great idea that made so much sense

Electrics not for me

69 posts

8 months

Saturday 6th August 2022
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Nickbrapp said:
I’m sure if we had all had EVS before and where now talking about building massive rigs to drill into the sea bed to suck out dead dinosaurs, that sometimes spill some into the sea killing millions of birds, coral and fish, before refining it into a explosive liquid to the fill up a tank with it every few hundred miles and then polluting the air in our cities with the fumes and gases which then warm up the planet we would think it was a great idea that made so much sense
Electric cars run on power sourced from the very things the nett zero loons want to abolish.

whirlybird

Original Poster:

607 posts

174 months

Saturday 6th August 2022
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I cannot see how building an electric car can, or ever will, use less energy/fuel than an IC car.
The basic structure is roughly the same, but now fill the drivetrain with copper(Heavy and expensive) cables,
etc. Battery packs using even more energy to produce than they would ever return in motive power, + disposal at end of life
and if Mr Musks Mega factories did not use fossil fuel in there construction, how many wind turbines would need to be used to supply energy, And wind turbines need to be built in factories too, hence my initial thread > EV cars are the planets biggest con/lie .

DMZ

998 posts

147 months

Saturday 6th August 2022
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But thankfully they also run on the things the net zero loons want more of

TheDeuce

16,997 posts

53 months

Saturday 6th August 2022
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Nickbrapp said:
I’m sure if we had all had EVS before and where now talking about building massive rigs to drill into the sea bed to suck out dead dinosaurs, that sometimes spill some into the sea killing millions of birds, coral and fish, before refining it into a explosive liquid to the fill up a tank with it every few hundred miles and then polluting the air in our cities with the fumes and gases which then warm up the planet we would think it was a great idea that made so much sense
Exactly!

Imagine 100 years of BEV being normal and then some moron comes along and announces that the future of personal transport is to be propelled along the road by 3000 explosions per minute with the resultant fumes pouring out of a tube at the back.

BEV ain't a con, and no it's not perfect - nothing is. But it's sensible progress and the best option available today taking all things into account.

Deciding there is no reason to change course because the new course isn't perfect is the mark of an idiot. It's about better, not perfect.

Gary C

10,806 posts

166 months

Saturday 6th August 2022
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Electrics not for me said:
Electric cars run on power sourced from the very things the nett zero loons want to abolish.
the question is, do you believe CO2 will change the environment to our detriment ?

whirlybird

Original Poster:

607 posts

174 months

Saturday 6th August 2022
quotequote all
In order to give a balanced view on my thread, can someone give the expected lifespan, of both core vehicle and battery pack, this I consider 2 separate structures to consider, possibly a third element to consider could/would be the 'electronics/computer hard and software', And who is going to buy a 10 year old Nissan Leaf. ???? It won't be me, for sure.

sawman

4,670 posts

217 months

Saturday 6th August 2022
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Randy Winkman said:
Lots of people like buying new cars. That's just the way it is. So the issue is, which new option is best for the environment?
Buying (making) all the new stuff is the problem. I am doing my bit for the planet by smoking around in a 26 year old V8

TheDeuce

16,997 posts

53 months

Saturday 6th August 2022
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Gary C said:
Electrics not for me said:
Electric cars run on power sourced from the very things the nett zero loons want to abolish.
the question is, do you believe CO2 will change the environment to our detriment ?
Regardless of beliefs, the fact is that from start to finish it's overall more carbon efficient, and efficient in general, to manufacture and drive a BEV than an ICE car.

Obviously most power still comes from power stations, but it's about improvement, not evangelism. BEV's will also help to make the most of wind and solar in the near future, a lot of which is currently wasted.

Gary C

10,806 posts

166 months

Saturday 6th August 2022
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
Gary C said:
Electrics not for me said:
Electric cars run on power sourced from the very things the nett zero loons want to abolish.
the question is, do you believe CO2 will change the environment to our detriment ?
Regardless of beliefs, the fact is that from start to finish it's overall more carbon efficient, and efficient in general, to manufacture and drive a BEV than an ICE car.

Obviously most power still comes from power stations, but it's about improvement, not evangelism. BEV's will also help to make the most of wind and solar in the near future, a lot of which is currently wasted.
If CO2 (and pollution in general) wasn't an issue, then we would still be burning coal and using oil. EV's wouldn't have a look in.

whirlybird

Original Poster:

607 posts

174 months

Saturday 6th August 2022
quotequote all
"Obviously most power still comes from power stations, but it's about improvement, not evangelism. BEV's will also help to make the most of wind and solar in the near future, a lot of which is currently wasted."

BUT, power stations, solar panels and wind turbines need energy to manufacture, so at what point does a wind turbine start to produce more energy than it took to build ?? I guess several years.

the core issue is energy use to produce energy efficient products, nobody has yet invented 'free energy"
Bit like Chicken and Egg, who built the first Lathe ??? because to make a Lathe you need a Lathe, see my point.

Diderot

5,805 posts

179 months

Saturday 6th August 2022
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whirlybird said:
I have deleted my initial message from this topic.
That went well.

TheDeuce

16,997 posts

53 months

Saturday 6th August 2022
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Gary C said:
TheDeuce said:
Gary C said:
Electrics not for me said:
Electric cars run on power sourced from the very things the nett zero loons want to abolish.
the question is, do you believe CO2 will change the environment to our detriment ?
Regardless of beliefs, the fact is that from start to finish it's overall more carbon efficient, and efficient in general, to manufacture and drive a BEV than an ICE car.

Obviously most power still comes from power stations, but it's about improvement, not evangelism. BEV's will also help to make the most of wind and solar in the near future, a lot of which is currently wasted.
If CO2 (and pollution in general) wasn't an issue, then we would still be burning coal and using oil. EV's wouldn't have a look in.
Well it is an issue - plainly. It's measurable that levels have increased with a detrimental effect, so I understand the trend to want to reduce that.

I hesitated to talk about beliefs because whilst I accept man has had a detrimental influence, I think the media has exaggerated how big that influence is. For example, there are constant stories about the polar ice caps melting, but they're not even supposed to be there in the first place, they're a relic of the last ice age that we're still technically exiting. Has mankind sped that process up? yes, but by about 100 years apparently, which on a geological timescale is hardly worth thinking about. But it is worth reducing that influence if we can, and we can.

but over and above all that, I'm an engineer and I recognise the common sense behind BEV, it's a better way to make a car. It's also more efficient than ICE on many a level, regardless of planet saving efficiencies. It's a better machine from start to finish which appeals to me. I also have a soul though, and fully intend to buy a V8 M3 coupe as soon as prices settle down - as an investment, and also so that one day a week I may get to do a tiny bit of global damage and smell the smell of hot tyres and petrol. Please don't mistake me for an eco-warrior smile


whirlybird

Original Poster:

607 posts

174 months

Saturday 6th August 2022
quotequote all
I didn't delete my original message, so who did ????
And another thought
after 2030 will Piston Heads have to change its name to "Comutator Heads "

TheDeuce

16,997 posts

53 months

Saturday 6th August 2022
quotequote all
whirlybird said:
"Obviously most power still comes from power stations, but it's about improvement, not evangelism. BEV's will also help to make the most of wind and solar in the near future, a lot of which is currently wasted."

BUT, power stations, solar panels and wind turbines need energy to manufacture, so at what point does a wind turbine start to produce more energy than it took to build ?? I guess several years.

the core issue is energy use to produce energy efficient products, nobody has yet invented 'free energy"
Bit like Chicken and Egg, who built the first Lathe ??? because to make a Lathe you need a Lathe, see my point.
The greenest form of power generation overall, including build costs and maintenance is actually nuclear. And it's safe enough at this point to be a sensible choice.

It's a tough sell though! BoJo was struggling to make a case for it even before he was caught out for having Christmas drinks...

Anyway as I keep saying, the fact you can point to what is being proposed and identify faults isn't useful or important. Nothing is perfect. It's far better to generate power centrally and deliver it into car in the form of electricity than it is to install a mini power plant inside every car - which is what ICE is. If, in addition to that, the power plants themselves can be improved in terms of efficiency, then everyone wins.