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Discussion
LooneyTunes said:
NextSlidePlease said:
33q said:
How are your clients dealing with the revised EPC obligations.
Many must be finding the costs to improve the rating to be beyond a reasonable rate of return.
This was supposed to come in by 2025, not a chance in hell are they are going to make that, and the information is very vague so i think most landlords will hold fire until firm dates and obligations are nailed down.Many must be finding the costs to improve the rating to be beyond a reasonable rate of return.
i am eagerly awaiting this as i have two victorian stone built properties that will not reach C without serious cost, and thats before the rules for being in a conservation area clash with the gov rules. I have done what i can already with them, and they are at a D, but will need internal wall insulation to get any higher, and would rather sell them than go through all that faff.
Add to that i think there is changes in EPC ratings incoming, focusing more on carbon footprint rather than cost to heat, which means some properties that reach a C after all that cost could then be downgraded again leaving the landlord facing down another potential huge cost to try and achieve C again.
in short, that government policy is a s
t show.Gladers01 said:
croyde said:
I got my latest place as a single man over a family.
The family were even offering above the rent asked for whilst I stuck to below the amount.
But I did get one place by having to pay 11 months upfront as the LL was worried about me being freelance.
Gotta move yet again in a year and am dreading it. It's not fun at all..
It was great years ago when it was affordable and there were plenty of nice interesting properties.
Tempted to see if I can do a deal for a hotel room.
That's a huge deposit to pay, when I used to rent out a property as a LL the deposit was one months rent plus one month in advance, the letting agent would take 15% of the monthly rent for a full management service or a one off introductory fee and no monthly commission, the vetting process was key, 9 times out of 10 the tenants were good as gold but the law of averages often meant 1 in 10 would be troublesome.The family were even offering above the rent asked for whilst I stuck to below the amount.
But I did get one place by having to pay 11 months upfront as the LL was worried about me being freelance.
Gotta move yet again in a year and am dreading it. It's not fun at all..
It was great years ago when it was affordable and there were plenty of nice interesting properties.
Tempted to see if I can do a deal for a hotel room.
A friend of mine sold a £550k cottage a few years ago (mortgage free) and moved into a hotel on a temporary basis, he's still there and pays about £800 per month and seems to enjoy the lifestyle
33q said:
LooneyTunes said:
NextSlidePlease said:
33q said:
How are your clients dealing with the revised EPC obligations.
Many must be finding the costs to improve the rating to be beyond a reasonable rate of return.
This was supposed to come in by 2025, not a chance in hell are they are going to make that, and the information is very vague so i think most landlords will hold fire until firm dates and obligations are nailed down.Many must be finding the costs to improve the rating to be beyond a reasonable rate of return.
i am eagerly awaiting this as i have two victorian stone built properties that will not reach C without serious cost, and thats before the rules for being in a conservation area clash with the gov rules. I have done what i can already with them, and they are at a D, but will need internal wall insulation to get any higher, and would rather sell them than go through all that faff.
Add to that i think there is changes in EPC ratings incoming, focusing more on carbon footprint rather than cost to heat, which means some properties that reach a C after all that cost could then be downgraded again leaving the landlord facing down another potential huge cost to try and achieve C again.
in short, that government policy is a s
t show.https://www.gov.uk/guidance/domestic-private-rente...
sebdangerfield said:
Is there any reason other than bombast for why agents use, “per calendar month” instead of just, “month”?
It's to specify a period of time beginning on a certain day of a month to the corresponding day of the following month in the calendar for example 8th march to the 8th April. Not just used for rent, used for notice periods too to remove any ambiguity. No reason to use it general conversation though, more of a legal term.Edited by NextSlidePlease on Saturday 18th March 21:03
superlightr said:
Good point. from just a financial side (there are other checks we do ) if you as a single person can afford the rent/eartn income ratio then thats fine.
if the ratio needed is say £25k a year im not worried if you are on £25k or a couple are on £50k.
we then go down the other checks and process.
In some ways the couple may be more of a risk in one aspect as they may split up. depends on how long been together/married/rented together before etc?
After Xmas each year you have the influx of breakups and new partners looking to rent holding hands and being very lovey with each other in the offices etc. inevitable they dont last long. Hence why we would be very happy with you as a single person and can afford the min rent ratio.
We try not to get into outbidding - its more then just the money we want the best tenants, best rent and then soonest move in. We were good at getting all 3. but no you being single would not be negative and infact a small plus on our criteria. just dont have a reptile.
No reptiles in my home! Good to know some Agents look equally on singles. Sadly it's not all of them. if the ratio needed is say £25k a year im not worried if you are on £25k or a couple are on £50k.
we then go down the other checks and process.
In some ways the couple may be more of a risk in one aspect as they may split up. depends on how long been together/married/rented together before etc?
After Xmas each year you have the influx of breakups and new partners looking to rent holding hands and being very lovey with each other in the offices etc. inevitable they dont last long. Hence why we would be very happy with you as a single person and can afford the min rent ratio.
We try not to get into outbidding - its more then just the money we want the best tenants, best rent and then soonest move in. We were good at getting all 3. but no you being single would not be negative and infact a small plus on our criteria. just dont have a reptile.
NextSlidePlease said:
It's to specify a period of time beginning on a certain day of a month to the corresponding day of the following month in the calendar for example 8th march to the 8th April. Not just used for rent, used for notice periods too to remove any ambiguity. No reason to use it general conversation though, more of a legal term.
I did think it was a legal term originally, my background is law, but I’m not convinced it is. Is calendar month actually in the legislation? Edited by NextSlidePlease on Saturday 18th March 21:03
The reason I find it odd is there are some really important bits of legislation which deal with authorising the removal of people’s liberty such as S.8 PACE which manages to get by by just referencing “month” and assuming we’ll not think they mean synodic month. I don’t see why it’s needed in tenancy legislation.
GiantCardboardPlato said:
sebdangerfield said:
Is there any reason other than bombast for why agents use, “per calendar month” instead of just, “month”?
Lunar monthEdited by anonymous-user on Saturday 18th March 22:18
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 18th March 22:27
GiantCardboardPlato said:
What’s the profit margin on tenant background checks and admin fees
its a minus figure since the Tenant fee Act 2019. £0 allowed to be charged to tenants for referencing/admin. Unless you misled/lie to us on the referencing and then we can keep the holding fee of 1 week again as per the TF Act 2019. The thing that would lose your holding fee are lying about IVA/Bankruptcy/CCJ's ability to pay the rent. Something serious and material. We dont want you to fail the referencing as its just wasting our time and LL rental income.
Edited by superlightr on Saturday 18th March 23:33
NextSlidePlease said:
sebdangerfield said:
Is there any reason other than bombast for why agents use, “per calendar month” instead of just, “month”?
It's to specify a period of time beginning on a certain day of a month to the corresponding day of the following month in the calendar for example 8th march to the 8th April. Not just used for rent, used for notice periods too to remove any ambiguity. No reason to use it general conversation though, more of a legal term.Edited by NextSlidePlease on Saturday 18th March 21:03
some months are longer/shorter then others but the same rent applies pcm.
A month would be 8/3/23 to 7/4/23 with the next rent due on the 8/4/23.
the correct calculation if you were working a pro rata day rate would be rent x 12 /365 x days.
EmailAddress said:
I'm being deliberately (but playfully) antagonistic. Implying that when I've been a Tenant, the Letting Agent notices a pubic hair halfway around the u-bend to charge me for, despite me having fixed the broken door, electrics, painted the place etc.
Yet when I've been a Landlord, somehow the LA didn't notice tenant broke the dishwasher, clogged the drain, practically took the front door off its hinges etc etc.
It seems I have mug on my forehead whichever side of the fence I'm on!
cleaning/dirt is generally easy to spot and then compared with the inventory for dilapidationsYet when I've been a Landlord, somehow the LA didn't notice tenant broke the dishwasher, clogged the drain, practically took the front door off its hinges etc etc.
It seems I have mug on my forehead whichever side of the fence I'm on!
Agents generally wont test appliances. But If an appliance has broken it would generally be the LL responsibility to fix as long as normal wear and tear. Blocked drains would be T responsibility which would normally get reported in during the tenancy.
Door broken/hinges should be spotted and would be viewed most likely as damage.
Some agents are more diligent then others.
Louis Balfour said:
LFB531 said:
Admire your up front answers to some of the questions OP!
I'm in a similar position to you (were!), in the same industry and sounds like an almost identical business profile. I'm approached most weeks to sell up and do give it some thought. Inevitably the big buyers are the corporate mob (we're probably a bit large for a privateer to take on), if you went that way did you find their due diligence process ok?
Would fully understand if you had no comment!
We owned a letting agency back in the early noughties. It was a different job back then. We diversified away from lettings outside our own book fifteen or so years ago - would not want to be involved with it now under any circumstances.I'm in a similar position to you (were!), in the same industry and sounds like an almost identical business profile. I'm approached most weeks to sell up and do give it some thought. Inevitably the big buyers are the corporate mob (we're probably a bit large for a privateer to take on), if you went that way did you find their due diligence process ok?
Would fully understand if you had no comment!
I think the OP did well to sell up and can understand why you would, if you got the right offer. It’s not going to become any easier.
Gladers01 said:
lizardbrain said:
They'll be giving cheaper car insurance to women next.
How many properties did you have on the books and how much would be the typical fee for the monthly percentages, and did you do a tenant introductory fee only and allow the landlord to manage the maintenance aspect ? you focused on the monthly fee ! Dont. Thats pretty much all prospective LL focus on. Dont. You need to look at all the charges. But more importantly you need to see what level of skill and experience that agent has, why will they do a better job then Y agency. Costs are important but what you are getting and the service level is way more important. You are not buying appliance you are buying a service. How readily to they try to push rent insurance/warranties? That be an easy tell into how careful they are with getting the right tenants. Check they qualifications and backgrounds.A number of years ago agents would generally charge say 15% +vat FM and £0 fees then agents started to do 12% but with £120 admin fee then 10% with £250 admin and so on. now most will charge a lowish % but multiple and repeatable fees to the LL - you have to make sure you are comparing eggs with eggs. Some Agents have very bad reputations in the industry. Check trade publications.
We did Full Man FM
Rent collection and legal compliance RC but the LL did inspections and maintenance.
and
Introduction/Let only. DIY landlrds/
Tenant find only - its interesting - DIY landlords. In the past we did but inevitable they did not know what they were doing and would always need extra help. They were a drain on us and paid the least. They did not comply with the laws and failed to keep up with the changes. They need the most time spent with them and work to help them. It was also arguable and possible that we as an Agent MAY have a liability to the DIY even if they did not keep themselves legally compliant many years later. So we had a massive shift away from these and in the last number of years did not offer this service and switched/educated many onto a basic rent collection service where we would find the tenants/reference do the paperwork's and deal with the legal compliance issues and the LL deals with the maintenance and inspections. That worked very well for all concerned and gave much better protection for LL and T.
We would also bin some landlords who we simply could not work with. Like most business a small percent would create most of the hassle - So after one particular time I had enough and simply gave them one months notice to end our involvement. Felt great to get rid of the crappy LL. I had enough of them as they really were idiots.
Edited by superlightr on Sunday 19th March 00:11
Gladers01 said:
croyde said:
I got my latest place as a single man over a family.
The family were even offering above the rent asked for whilst I stuck to below the amount.
But I did get one place by having to pay 11 months upfront as the LL was worried about me being freelance.
Gotta move yet again in a year and am dreading it. It's not fun at all..
It was great years ago when it was affordable and there were plenty of nice interesting properties.
Tempted to see if I can do a deal for a hotel room.
That's a huge deposit to pay, when I used to rent out a property as a LL the deposit was one months rent plus one month in advance, the letting agent would take 15% of the monthly rent for a full management service or a one off introductory fee and no monthly commission, the vetting process was key, 9 times out of 10 the tenants were good as gold but the law of averages often meant 1 in 10 would be troublesome.The family were even offering above the rent asked for whilst I stuck to below the amount.
But I did get one place by having to pay 11 months upfront as the LL was worried about me being freelance.
Gotta move yet again in a year and am dreading it. It's not fun at all..
It was great years ago when it was affordable and there were plenty of nice interesting properties.
Tempted to see if I can do a deal for a hotel room.
A friend of mine sold a £550k cottage a few years ago (mortgage free) and moved into a hotel on a temporary basis, he's still there and pays about £800 per month and seems to enjoy the lifestyle
paying in advance may help you look more financially secure then another tenant of equal worth. It wont with us give an auto let. You still need to do the full references. Some tenants think paying in advance excludes them from the references checks - with us it didnt.
33q said:
LooneyTunes said:
NextSlidePlease said:
33q said:
How are your clients dealing with the revised EPC obligations.
Many must be finding the costs to improve the rating to be beyond a reasonable rate of return.
This was supposed to come in by 2025, not a chance in hell are they are going to make that, and the information is very vague so i think most landlords will hold fire until firm dates and obligations are nailed down.Many must be finding the costs to improve the rating to be beyond a reasonable rate of return.
i am eagerly awaiting this as i have two victorian stone built properties that will not reach C without serious cost, and thats before the rules for being in a conservation area clash with the gov rules. I have done what i can already with them, and they are at a D, but will need internal wall insulation to get any higher, and would rather sell them than go through all that faff.
Add to that i think there is changes in EPC ratings incoming, focusing more on carbon footprint rather than cost to heat, which means some properties that reach a C after all that cost could then be downgraded again leaving the landlord facing down another potential huge cost to try and achieve C again.
in short, that government policy is a s
t show.There is a lot of mis information posted by various sources and including trade bodies which are wrong. Its not law that it is changing in 2025 at all. its being discused and as mentioned if they actually passed the law to do so would destroy the letting market. I would also agree that it will be kicked down the line further and watered down further. Perhaps a D somewhere between 2025 and 2030.
Again highlights the uncertainty and the feking around the Govt are doing - not a way for me to take a risk with my business after 25 yrs.
One of most serious issues to Letting agents is the banking side of things and Banks. Client accounts are very valuable these days and very hard to open. New ones are hard to open. banks have been closing agents clients accounts arbitrarily as they view them as too risky as funds are all lumped together and the banks have been requiring named client accounts ie each individual client be it LL or T or multiples of each EACH have their own client account. This is a massive burden if you software does not account in that way and most agents do not or did not.
To have this hanging over our heads was unacceptable and one of my main reasons to call it a day and start the process of selling up. Too many hoops to jump through. The regulations for staff, for compliance, the fines involved. Trading standards were unbelievable in their "view" on issues in relation to the TF Act 2019 and although we felt we could fight and argue points with them of some fees as they were wrong in their view of the law - its simply not worth the time, hassle or risk any more. The day of the small letting agent is coming to an end. The Govt want big institutions running let properties. I think small agencies can exist but its much harder and the returns diminishing.
We started the sale process 7 years ago to get the business as best it could ready for a sale at the max price. We worked backwards from when we think Labour will next get into power, when various new laws and costs are coming in, software changes needed for us, staff training etc. And this year is the last possible time for us to keep its value else it would be declining i believe. The risk the Govt on us from legislation and red tape was too great now for the value we had tied up in it. Went beyond my risk level.
Edited by superlightr on Sunday 19th March 00:18
Edited by superlightr on Sunday 19th March 00:18
Edited by superlightr on Sunday 19th March 00:21
blindspot said:
Sebastian Tombs said:
Can I have my thousand quid back?
No mate. You left it damaged and filthy. Count yourself lucky you’re only out a k and not the 2.5 it cost to put right. And don’t ask for a reference, cos honesty often offends.LFB531 said:
Admire your up front answers to some of the questions OP!
I'm in a similar position to you (were!), in the same industry and sounds like an almost identical business profile. I'm approached most weeks to sell up and do give it some thought. Inevitably the big buyers are the corporate mob (we're probably a bit large for a privateer to take on), if you went that way did you find their due diligence process ok?
Would fully understand if you had no comment!
sorry saw this question and forgot to come back. DD is another topic altogether. We are setting up another business to help other firms prepare and get ready to sell, secure their best price, find compliance issues before buyers do, retain their value and help with the paperwork involved.I'm in a similar position to you (were!), in the same industry and sounds like an almost identical business profile. I'm approached most weeks to sell up and do give it some thought. Inevitably the big buyers are the corporate mob (we're probably a bit large for a privateer to take on), if you went that way did you find their due diligence process ok?
Would fully understand if you had no comment!
We started the sale prep 7 years ago and then in the last 3 ramped it up massively to be very focused towards a sale. The pre sale work is vital and little tweaks can make big impacts.
Just before and then during the sale process (even before the real DD) It was exhausting and very time consuming, Both our selling agent and Solicitors confirmed we went through one of the hardest and longest DD process they had seen even compared to other business worth many time the value of our. Our buyers also commented about how well we did (they couldn't knock the price down a penny) Wife loved the process/DD side of things and forms I love the legal side hence why we can add real value to others just about to start that process.
We are finalising our new business/website/proposal model over the next week. We already have a possible very large business in the pipeline we have been asked to prepare a proposal for to assist them in the DD and sale. We also are meeting up with our buyers for lunch on them about a proposal they want to discuss now the sale is completed. - we think its to engage us to help them for other purchases they are making and other aspect of their business which we do better then they do.
How are you finding things at present? What sort of numbers do you look after?
Edited by superlightr on Sunday 19th March 00:58
Edited by superlightr on Sunday 19th March 00:59
Edited by superlightr on Sunday 19th March 09:03
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