Talk to me about Wren kitchens
Discussion
PhilboSE said:
OzzyR1 said:
On another point, I'm amazed that a nationally recognised firm thinks it's OK to provide the 3D above to customers spending c £20K.
It's like nothing has moved on in the last 15 years.
That’s the DIY Kitchens designer. The 2D designer is good, but the 3D renders are appalling. The lighting model is atrocious and everything comes out a shade of mid grey. On the plus side you can spin and move in the 3D image which helps understand the layout, but it also needs a high-fidelity render option that is slower.It's like nothing has moved on in the last 15 years.
Wood flooring sir?
Yup.
What species?
Oak.
What pattern?
Chevron.
Which direction?
Towards window.
What finish?
Matte varnish.
Has it been freshly fitted, or is it worn down in previous layout high traffic areas?
You’d need literally hundreds of variants for wood, hundreds more for tiles, and spend all day just picking the right looking ones so it looks right.
Windows?
Sash.
Dimension?
Blah blah. Fat frames, thin frames, frame colours. Blinds? Blind type?
American FF, hundreds of variants and colours… taller blocking light onto the ceiling, colours changing the cast of light into the room.
Ceiling height.
Paint colours.
Light fittings, light outputs, beam patterns. Locations vs units, tall units blocking output a bit potentially.
Time of day, time of year, sunny or cloudy?
That 3D render lets you understand the way it’ll look in 3D.
If you want to know how it’ll actually appear once in, then that’s not trivial.
You can get a fair way there easily, and it look ‘flashy’, but not indicative of how it’ll actually look for you.
They can fully control all the stuff they’re doing/providing, but a kitchen without the units is still full of stuff that will impact how it all looks together.
And they or you can’t know all that without more effort than it’s worth at this level of cost/speculative selling.
We went through the pain of Wren last year.
The quality of the kitchen itself is fine.
We had to replace a couple of doors that were marked or scratched, but they turned up quickly, and i suspect the fitter was careless with them to start.
The big problems are:
- the fitter that they supplied.
- their "fitted kitchen" does not include the connecting up of anything they have supplied.
Wren supplied a dishwasher, but do not connect it up as part of the price. The fitter charges extra for that.
Wren supplied a boiling water tap, but do not connect it up as part of the price. The fitter charges extra for that.
etc
The fitter took lots of shortcuts, which i then photographed and sent to them, regarding trim, feet, etc.
The fitter threw away key components, like the pipe decouplers for the tap after fitting, like the baffles and fitting brackets for the extractor after bodging it. He left me a couple of leaks under the sink to find once it was used.
The wall cabinets on different walls were 10mm out on height, which was not immediately obvious until you measure for the wraparound splashback, and he made a LOT of fuss to lower one row to the right height. He got that wrong despite his laser level being on all day.
The cabinets either side of the cooker were 2mm different in height, because he was too lazy to move the cooker out of the way first. This "only" 2mm became a problem when the quartz worktop was being measured up and then fitted.
The cooker also had a faulty handle, which Wren arranged for the manufacturer to come and sort. They broke it completely while trying to fix it, and the part was then put on back order.
When i chased Wren after 6 weeks, they told me I was responsible for dealing with the manufacturer under warranty, and was nothing to do with them, despite them making the call.
They will shirk their way out of doing anything that you think they should be responsible for.
I would find a local kitchen fitter that you can get recommendations for, and see their previous work, and ask them if they would fit the kitchen if you get Wren to supply it.
That way you can discuss exactly what you need the fitter to do without having to pay extra on top for every little thing.
The price you pay Wren for fitting, and what is NOT included, would easily cover the cost of a decent fitter and include those things.
The quality of the kitchen itself is fine.
We had to replace a couple of doors that were marked or scratched, but they turned up quickly, and i suspect the fitter was careless with them to start.
The big problems are:
- the fitter that they supplied.
- their "fitted kitchen" does not include the connecting up of anything they have supplied.
Wren supplied a dishwasher, but do not connect it up as part of the price. The fitter charges extra for that.
Wren supplied a boiling water tap, but do not connect it up as part of the price. The fitter charges extra for that.
etc
The fitter took lots of shortcuts, which i then photographed and sent to them, regarding trim, feet, etc.
The fitter threw away key components, like the pipe decouplers for the tap after fitting, like the baffles and fitting brackets for the extractor after bodging it. He left me a couple of leaks under the sink to find once it was used.
The wall cabinets on different walls were 10mm out on height, which was not immediately obvious until you measure for the wraparound splashback, and he made a LOT of fuss to lower one row to the right height. He got that wrong despite his laser level being on all day.
The cabinets either side of the cooker were 2mm different in height, because he was too lazy to move the cooker out of the way first. This "only" 2mm became a problem when the quartz worktop was being measured up and then fitted.
The cooker also had a faulty handle, which Wren arranged for the manufacturer to come and sort. They broke it completely while trying to fix it, and the part was then put on back order.
When i chased Wren after 6 weeks, they told me I was responsible for dealing with the manufacturer under warranty, and was nothing to do with them, despite them making the call.
They will shirk their way out of doing anything that you think they should be responsible for.
I would find a local kitchen fitter that you can get recommendations for, and see their previous work, and ask them if they would fit the kitchen if you get Wren to supply it.
That way you can discuss exactly what you need the fitter to do without having to pay extra on top for every little thing.
The price you pay Wren for fitting, and what is NOT included, would easily cover the cost of a decent fitter and include those things.
5 years with our Wren kitchen, overall it's held up well - we used our own fitter. A good fitter can make a mediocre kitchen great, a poor fitter can make an amazing kitchen a mess. Hard to judge price as everything seems to have gone mental in the last 3 years. If you're happy, then its a good price.
Customer service was "ok" - a few missing bits, resolved in 2 weeks (fine as part of larger build)
Has held up pretty well in a family of 5, some chipping on inside edge of drawers - can be touched in easily. Otherwise robust, looks good and we spend most of our time there if we're home.
Customer service was "ok" - a few missing bits, resolved in 2 weeks (fine as part of larger build)
Has held up pretty well in a family of 5, some chipping on inside edge of drawers - can be touched in easily. Otherwise robust, looks good and we spend most of our time there if we're home.
There was a new Wren kitchen in the AirBnB cottage we rented for a couple of months for part of our house extension / refurb - had been put in the owner's builder and wife was very impressed with it.
One thing I noticed is the wide drawers were, IIRC, pretty well full width and depth (front to back) so the usable space seemed a lot more than the Howdens kitchen we have. Don't know if they were special in some way, they had glass sides.
One thing I noticed is the wide drawers were, IIRC, pretty well full width and depth (front to back) so the usable space seemed a lot more than the Howdens kitchen we have. Don't know if they were special in some way, they had glass sides.
We also regret ever using Wren. We took a 100% supply and install package. The sales service is great, but the Wren’s own fitter (self employed subcontractor) was a disaster and Wren did everything to avoid sorting, quoting their T&C.
Read and think about their T&C very carefully.
Do not sign or agree to any point of the fitting process until you are happy you never have to involve them again.
Customer service will give you the runaround for months.
Read and think about their T&C very carefully.
Do not sign or agree to any point of the fitting process until you are happy you never have to involve them again.
Customer service will give you the runaround for months.
Qwerty911 said:
<snip>
Customer service will give you the runaround for months.
Indeed. Customer service will give you the runaround for months.
Phone calls not returned, emails unanswered.
I'm really not one for making a scene at all but found going into the Tottenham branch where we ordered it from and speaking quite loudly with potential customers all around about the crap sub-contractors, the shoddy work, the damage done to our electric garage door trying to shut the gas off after cutting into a gas pipe and grouting looking like it was done by a five year old got a positive outcome.
A Wren kitchen came as part of our new-build 8 years ago so I cannot comment about the ordering / fitting / problem aspect. After those 8 years with 3 kids and numerous cats, it's holding up well.
In one of our previous houses, I got a kitchen from Wickes. Looked the part, good price and the fitters (I think they do same as Wren) were spot-on and stayed late until it was all done. For a number of reasons, we sold up not long after so I cannot comment about the durability.
In one of our previous houses, I got a kitchen from Wickes. Looked the part, good price and the fitters (I think they do same as Wren) were spot-on and stayed late until it was all done. For a number of reasons, we sold up not long after so I cannot comment about the durability.
I fitted three wren kitchens last year to some properties we built.
We had really good sales service.
Price was actually less than Howdens
Delivery was prompt and we only had two missing draws out of three kitchens so not to bad.
Customer service to get the missing parts was dealt with quickly.
We didn't use their fitting service.
The nice one certainly doesn't look like a cheap kitchen, Were living in the house and its working very nicely and seems well built
We had really good sales service.
Price was actually less than Howdens
Delivery was prompt and we only had two missing draws out of three kitchens so not to bad.
Customer service to get the missing parts was dealt with quickly.
We didn't use their fitting service.
The nice one certainly doesn't look like a cheap kitchen, Were living in the house and its working very nicely and seems well built
We had a new kitchen and utility from wren circa £35k 18 months/2 years ago.
The hardware is much of a muchness between the main brands, most of it comes from the same factories. Electrical units were cheaper than I could find them elsewhere.
Quality is ok, not out of this world, but a handmade solid equivalent was over £100k, so works for me to go with wren as we have kids and a clumsy wife that break stuff. To date nothing has broken.
Wife tells me there is an app she used to order missing/broken items, wren just dispatch without argument, sometimes they send more than they should but dont want anything back. We had enough spare freebies to build storage in the bootroom as well. I’ve chopped up loads more for kindling.
The secret to a decent kitchen is the fitting. We used our own fitter/joiner and the job was good. I would not be using a wren fitter. They sent one of their subbies to install the 2 island worktops we ordered and despite telling him not to bring in the tops across a newly installed 7 metre bifold door plinth, he did, and dropped one of the tops on the sill. Sill and entire frame needed replacing (it had been installed for 1 day) and we had to claim off his insurance as wren said it was not their responsibility (subbie). That was the only negative of the experience really.
The hardware is much of a muchness between the main brands, most of it comes from the same factories. Electrical units were cheaper than I could find them elsewhere.
Quality is ok, not out of this world, but a handmade solid equivalent was over £100k, so works for me to go with wren as we have kids and a clumsy wife that break stuff. To date nothing has broken.
Wife tells me there is an app she used to order missing/broken items, wren just dispatch without argument, sometimes they send more than they should but dont want anything back. We had enough spare freebies to build storage in the bootroom as well. I’ve chopped up loads more for kindling.
The secret to a decent kitchen is the fitting. We used our own fitter/joiner and the job was good. I would not be using a wren fitter. They sent one of their subbies to install the 2 island worktops we ordered and despite telling him not to bring in the tops across a newly installed 7 metre bifold door plinth, he did, and dropped one of the tops on the sill. Sill and entire frame needed replacing (it had been installed for 1 day) and we had to claim off his insurance as wren said it was not their responsibility (subbie). That was the only negative of the experience really.
Kitchens really are a pretty simple DIY these days with all the info/tools/YouTube videos.
It’s just the time issues/out of action costs.
But it sounds from many on here that even pros are taking days to do the work any way?
Finding a good fitter who’ll do it all to a high quality and quickly sounds like a big ask.
Not sure there is ever any point in paying money for a new kitchen if it’s not fitted really well as it’ll be years of looking at gaps, bad caulking/beading or whatever…!
It’s just the time issues/out of action costs.
But it sounds from many on here that even pros are taking days to do the work any way?
Finding a good fitter who’ll do it all to a high quality and quickly sounds like a big ask.
Not sure there is ever any point in paying money for a new kitchen if it’s not fitted really well as it’ll be years of looking at gaps, bad caulking/beading or whatever…!
Luckily I have the tools and the expertise to install my own kitchens and have installed several no-name kitchens, one Magnet jobbie, one Wickes bespoke, 2 Wickes off the shelf and one Wren kitchen.
The Wickes off the shelf are cheap and pretty nasty but good for garage/outbuilding etc. They are virtually identical to Homebase and B&Q offerings.
Our current home has a Wickes bespoke and is around 6 years old and still looking good. Being cream/ivory shaker style it hasn’t really dated.
My Wren experience was interesting. We had a do-er upper to fit out and budget was the key. Wickes priced our rough design and on impulse we went to checkout Wren, who price matched Wickes but threw in a free dishwasher. We sourced our own appliances except dishwasher and extractor unit.
Delivery revealed damage of chips and scratches to all but two of the twenty units. Took photos and Wren replaced without question - and didn’t want stuff returned. I built a hall cupboard out of the parts. They even replaced the £400 extractor unit!
The markup on kitchens must be astronomical if they can afford to swallow this much damage…
Anyway, 5 years later it is still looking very good. If I bought again I would probably use Wickes bespoke ranges.
The Wickes off the shelf are cheap and pretty nasty but good for garage/outbuilding etc. They are virtually identical to Homebase and B&Q offerings.
Our current home has a Wickes bespoke and is around 6 years old and still looking good. Being cream/ivory shaker style it hasn’t really dated.
My Wren experience was interesting. We had a do-er upper to fit out and budget was the key. Wickes priced our rough design and on impulse we went to checkout Wren, who price matched Wickes but threw in a free dishwasher. We sourced our own appliances except dishwasher and extractor unit.
Delivery revealed damage of chips and scratches to all but two of the twenty units. Took photos and Wren replaced without question - and didn’t want stuff returned. I built a hall cupboard out of the parts. They even replaced the £400 extractor unit!
The markup on kitchens must be astronomical if they can afford to swallow this much damage…
Anyway, 5 years later it is still looking very good. If I bought again I would probably use Wickes bespoke ranges.
akirk said:
We used DIY-Kitchens last year for a kitchen / home office area / utility / pantry - they were superb…
Was definitely worth a day trip from Bristol to Yorkshire to what was then their only showroom…
Apparently their orders doubled during covid - so they were playing catch up but even so their customer service was great…
Also a very good 3rd party Facebook group which they support with help
And you get a packet of Viscount mint biscuits and a box of Yorkshire tea bags Was definitely worth a day trip from Bristol to Yorkshire to what was then their only showroom…
Apparently their orders doubled during covid - so they were playing catch up but even so their customer service was great…
Also a very good 3rd party Facebook group which they support with help
DIY kitchens are pretty awesome as they have good prices, a huge range, and seemingly great customer services.
Wren and the like are an instant no-go as you have to waste time having your kitchen ‘designed’ which quite frankly seems a bit offensive to me.
I can’t be alone in thinking that I have my way of liking things, and largely they’re not gonna fit all that time/consideration in within a 30min design session.
Ie, I see designed kitchens a lot with the bin away from the dishwasher, or space for dishes. Or bin next to oven (lovely way to warm up bin contents so they reek)
I like dishes over bin which is to my right… clean off, then sink central, and dishwasher to left and drainer to left.
DIY kitchens, and the Ikea tools, make designing your own kitchen so easy I think.
Only downside on Ikea is a bit more limited range of special parts etc.
My gut (as far from a pro) says if you’re getting a quality fitter in, they’ll make anything work without trouble.
So go for what you want and design it yourself.
Wren sound worrying if they’re happy to send a whole new kitchen out due to damage.
Surely that devalues their image as they’re just saying they have margin out the wazoo?
A good kitchen supplier would work to minimise damages and then put the savings into better quality or prices shirley?
Wren and the like are an instant no-go as you have to waste time having your kitchen ‘designed’ which quite frankly seems a bit offensive to me.
I can’t be alone in thinking that I have my way of liking things, and largely they’re not gonna fit all that time/consideration in within a 30min design session.
Ie, I see designed kitchens a lot with the bin away from the dishwasher, or space for dishes. Or bin next to oven (lovely way to warm up bin contents so they reek)
I like dishes over bin which is to my right… clean off, then sink central, and dishwasher to left and drainer to left.
DIY kitchens, and the Ikea tools, make designing your own kitchen so easy I think.
Only downside on Ikea is a bit more limited range of special parts etc.
My gut (as far from a pro) says if you’re getting a quality fitter in, they’ll make anything work without trouble.
So go for what you want and design it yourself.
Wren sound worrying if they’re happy to send a whole new kitchen out due to damage.
Surely that devalues their image as they’re just saying they have margin out the wazoo?
A good kitchen supplier would work to minimise damages and then put the savings into better quality or prices shirley?
They only supply and do not fit, which is where your issues are.
Be carefully with their recommended fitters, cowboys is understating it.
Once they put the kitchen into production, they have you over a barrel, and the fitters know it, so they delay until then with "we can price that once the project starts" and then things get very expensive, very quickly, with you having no kitchen, massive storage costs and the fitter milking it for everything it is worth. Extreme caution. We barely escaped without being burnt.
Be carefully with their recommended fitters, cowboys is understating it.
Once they put the kitchen into production, they have you over a barrel, and the fitters know it, so they delay until then with "we can price that once the project starts" and then things get very expensive, very quickly, with you having no kitchen, massive storage costs and the fitter milking it for everything it is worth. Extreme caution. We barely escaped without being burnt.
QuantumTokoloshi said:
They only supply and do not fit, which is where your issues are.
Be carefully with their recommended fitters, cowboys is understating it.
Once they put the kitchen into production, they have you over a barrel, and the fitters know it, so they delay until then with "we can price that once the project starts" and then things get very expensive, very quickly, with you having no kitchen, massive storage costs and the fitter milking it for everything it is worth. Extreme caution. We barely escaped without being burnt.
Just clarified that it is painted doors for our orders. We're fully aware that we're buying a pile of wood and some appliances - we're using our own fitter and will be stripping the room back, ceiling down, floor up, electrics and network being done - all of that is additional to the cost of the units, worktops and so on, so we know that there's no hidden surprises on that front. I'm chatting to my fitter later - as I say, he's already done the "If it's what you really want then ok but let me price it up with Howdens and Benchmarx first" which we're very much open to. Be carefully with their recommended fitters, cowboys is understating it.
Once they put the kitchen into production, they have you over a barrel, and the fitters know it, so they delay until then with "we can price that once the project starts" and then things get very expensive, very quickly, with you having no kitchen, massive storage costs and the fitter milking it for everything it is worth. Extreme caution. We barely escaped without being burnt.
mrmistoffelees said:
Just clarified that it is painted doors for our orders.
Just making sure you didn't miss my earlier post:"Painted doors from Wren also suffer problems; the j-pull doors in particular are prone to chipping and flaking.
The ‘pacrylic’ doors are also notorious for fading."
The advice above, to 'proceed with extreme caution', is good.
FWIW said:
Just making sure you didn't miss my earlier post:
"Painted doors from Wren also suffer problems; the j-pull doors in particular are prone to chipping and flaking.
The ‘pacrylic’ doors are also notorious for fading."
The advice above, to 'proceed with extreme caution', is good.
Apologies, I had missed that. Thanks for the advice. Going to see what Howdens and Benchmarx come up with and go from there. The handleless issue is proving more of an issue than I hoped it would. "Painted doors from Wren also suffer problems; the j-pull doors in particular are prone to chipping and flaking.
The ‘pacrylic’ doors are also notorious for fading."
The advice above, to 'proceed with extreme caution', is good.
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