local pub decking cars park - planning question..
Discussion
so, we live in a small village in surrey with minimal parking already..
The local pub is planning to deck its car park & make a huge terrace overlooking river (which of course would be nice)..
However, this would then mean a loss of 20 car parking spaces for the pub. The landlord figures/argues that most people dont drive there (not true)
His/the brewery argument is that the car park is their land and as such they can do what they wish to it, however, this will severerly impact on a village with already extremely scarce parking..
any ideas/thoughts..?
The local pub is planning to deck its car park & make a huge terrace overlooking river (which of course would be nice)..
However, this would then mean a loss of 20 car parking spaces for the pub. The landlord figures/argues that most people dont drive there (not true)
His/the brewery argument is that the car park is their land and as such they can do what they wish to it, however, this will severerly impact on a village with already extremely scarce parking..
any ideas/thoughts..?
The increase in on street parking is a planning consideration as it is classed as a safety issue. Speak to your parish planning committee and to your council planners to raise your concerns.
If you can go with photos of how full the car park currently is, which will give an idea of the cars displaced by the decking then it will help. Although the parish have no formal powers (purely advisory) they love getting behind this sort of thing as it justifies their existence. They often have CCs on their committees too, so often have more sway than you'd think.
If you can go with photos of how full the car park currently is, which will give an idea of the cars displaced by the decking then it will help. Although the parish have no formal powers (purely advisory) they love getting behind this sort of thing as it justifies their existence. They often have CCs on their committees too, so often have more sway than you'd think.
sinizter said:
It's his land and provided he has the required planning permission (if it is needed) then he can do whatever he likes.
It is not his concern whether people visiting the village would like to use his car park.
Correct, but that is the reason for public consultation regarding planning applications. If a business affects its neighbours, they have every right to voice their concerns, don't you think? It is not his concern whether people visiting the village would like to use his car park.
rhinochopig said:
The increase in on street parking is a planning consideration as it is classed as a safety issue. Speak to your parish planning committee and to your council planners to raise your concerns.
If you can go with photos of how full the car park currently is, which will give an idea of the cars displaced by the decking then it will help. Although the parish have no formal powers (purely advisory) they love getting behind this sort of thing as it justifies their existence. They often have CCs on their committees too, so often have more sway than you'd think.
This. Start car counting immediately and keep records (include street parking if there is overflow, and measure several times a day).If you can go with photos of how full the car park currently is, which will give an idea of the cars displaced by the decking then it will help. Although the parish have no formal powers (purely advisory) they love getting behind this sort of thing as it justifies their existence. They often have CCs on their committees too, so often have more sway than you'd think.
Register your concerns (there's normally an option on the planning website), and stick to the facts and genuine reasons for complaining. Remember to check up - the applicant may advance the argument and you need to be ready to counter.
It's well worth going door-to-door to see what the level of concern is, and to co-ordinate action/razz the lazy into writing in.
Finally, don't forget that the landlord is also a resident - you will need to get on with him afterwards. Also, it sounds like you are not against the idea in principle, just the specific execution. By co-ordinating and taking a measure of local concern, it may be appropriate to have a calm discussion with the owners to negotiate a better agreement. All parties would probably prefer a proposal backed by the villagers that can be runner-stamped (and christened by a communal pint on the new balcomy).
all going points, much appreciated guys.
I already know the new landlord quite well & get on well with him. However, we've discussed the proposal and he point blank refuses to acknowledge that it will affect anyone else.
Its an odd situation as the pub is next to the bridge to an island of 50 houses where I live, everyone on that island has no option but to pass the front door of the pub to get to or from their house (aside from by boat), yet, he doesnt seem to register how important this market of customers could be to him.
local residents and islanders already debating how to object to plans but its a real shame as nobody, least of all me wants to fall out with him as we like drinking there and like him too. it does appear to be a short sighted view also as i reckon people will come once, then realise what a faff it is to park there and not bother coming back.
I already know the new landlord quite well & get on well with him. However, we've discussed the proposal and he point blank refuses to acknowledge that it will affect anyone else.
Its an odd situation as the pub is next to the bridge to an island of 50 houses where I live, everyone on that island has no option but to pass the front door of the pub to get to or from their house (aside from by boat), yet, he doesnt seem to register how important this market of customers could be to him.
local residents and islanders already debating how to object to plans but its a real shame as nobody, least of all me wants to fall out with him as we like drinking there and like him too. it does appear to be a short sighted view also as i reckon people will come once, then realise what a faff it is to park there and not bother coming back.
To be honest i would think that the development would require a design & access statement or at the very least a technical note regarding highways matters, concerning loss of parking and any distributed vehicles.
It would be best to raise your point of concern with the borough council first and foremost.
Believe me there would be plenty of ways to object to such a development.
It would be best to raise your point of concern with the borough council first and foremost.
Believe me there would be plenty of ways to object to such a development.
Edited by MidlandDan84 on Wednesday 7th April 13:42
sinizter said:
It's his land and provided he has the required planning permission (if it is needed)
When speaking to our local council regarding planning at my pub, the short answer they gave was, with commerical property, to always assume that planning is required.To the OP: "Ownership of the land" holds bugger all sway with the suitability of the plans when being judged by the planning dept.
CraigW said:
Its an odd situation as the pub is next to the bridge to an island of 50 houses where I live, everyone on that island has no option but to pass the front door of the pub to get to or from their house
Do you have to park on the mainland? If your concern is that you're going to lose parking for your own benefit, sadly that's not going to be relevant to the planners.SJobson said:
CraigW said:
Its an odd situation as the pub is next to the bridge to an island of 50 houses where I live, everyone on that island has no option but to pass the front door of the pub to get to or from their house
Do you have to park on the mainland? If your concern is that you're going to lose parking for your own benefit, sadly that's not going to be relevant to the planners.How many parking spaces do they have now?
How many will they be left with?
They will need Planning Permission for this, it sounds quite large... Are you in Greenbelt or Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty (AONB) at all?? or other similar... That will restrict on what they can do. It's a business premises and they will have to have adequate parking for employees and clients, plus have 1 or 2 disabled parking spaces.. This will probably generate more trouble for them than any kind of perceived benefit.
How many will they be left with?
They will need Planning Permission for this, it sounds quite large... Are you in Greenbelt or Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty (AONB) at all?? or other similar... That will restrict on what they can do. It's a business premises and they will have to have adequate parking for employees and clients, plus have 1 or 2 disabled parking spaces.. This will probably generate more trouble for them than any kind of perceived benefit.
When people visit the islanders and perhaps go across the bridge for an aperitif before dinner, does the landlord think they would be more or less likely to use his establishment rather than the pub 100 yards away if he makes life difficult.
Lets face it, that pub is full of your neighbours and I can't see that being the case if he rocks the boat, so to speak.
One would suggest that using the overlook card, which you know is hot topic, would perhaps be the way forward in objections.
Perhaps club together and engage a planning consultant...
Lets face it, that pub is full of your neighbours and I can't see that being the case if he rocks the boat, so to speak.
One would suggest that using the overlook card, which you know is hot topic, would perhaps be the way forward in objections.
Perhaps club together and engage a planning consultant...
Before paying anyone anything, talk to your local planning dept. and ask them about the pub or a pub reducing it's parking spaces from 20 to 11 and then possibly to nil. They simply cannot get rid of all of the parking spaces. As a business they will need at least 2-3 for the employees.
You might have a case for a deviation from local authority parking standards, it doesn’t sound like the development is in a highly accessible location so parking will be required.
Also, without knowing the site it would be guessing, but do deliveries for the pub use the existing parking area, if so on-street servicing would be required which produces a different set of issues, is there sufficient space to accommodate a turning service vehicle??
If you are really bothered about it all talk to the local planning department, then if you require an appeal document then my rates are £115 p/hour
Also, without knowing the site it would be guessing, but do deliveries for the pub use the existing parking area, if so on-street servicing would be required which produces a different set of issues, is there sufficient space to accommodate a turning service vehicle??
If you are really bothered about it all talk to the local planning department, then if you require an appeal document then my rates are £115 p/hour
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