Neutering Male Dog Discussion
Discussion
moorx said:
Out of interest, what would you say are the health issues resulting from neutering?
Oddly increases cancer risk in some studies amongst other health problems.https://dogsfirst.ie/health-issues/dog-neutering/
https://www.yourpurebredpuppy.com/health/articles/...
I'm a vet, I don't advocate the neutering of all male dogs. There are pros and cons.
There is one paper that reported an increased risk of joint disease in Dobermans that were neutered before maturity. It makes sense as there is some control of growth plate closure by the male hormones, so removing the largest source of those hormones will lead to altered growth. I advise against juvenile neutering of large breed dogs, as do most vets.
I am not convinced that there is any increase in cancer directly from neutering.
As a population, castrated male dogs are more likely to be overweight, which increases risks of a whole host of things from diabetes to cancer.
There is a certain amount of confidence that comes from being entire and removing that can exacerbate certain behavioural problems, eg fear aggression.
Prostate problems later in life are relatively common in entire males, unusual for it to lead to euthanasia though. Testicular cancer isn't particularly common in dogs and doesn't tend to spread.
I had my dog castrated at 2 years old, not because he was aggressive but because he was constantly being attacked by other entire male dogs and he just wanted to play. It did't change his personality and he is still trim but will never quite have the muscle definition of an entire dog. It solved the problem.
On the whole I would say castrated dogs make slightly easier pets, especially if you don't take training too seriously.
In your case I suspect that you are right and he is just being a pup, seek the advice of a behaviourist and only castrate once he is fully grown if you do decide it is best.
There is one paper that reported an increased risk of joint disease in Dobermans that were neutered before maturity. It makes sense as there is some control of growth plate closure by the male hormones, so removing the largest source of those hormones will lead to altered growth. I advise against juvenile neutering of large breed dogs, as do most vets.
I am not convinced that there is any increase in cancer directly from neutering.
As a population, castrated male dogs are more likely to be overweight, which increases risks of a whole host of things from diabetes to cancer.
There is a certain amount of confidence that comes from being entire and removing that can exacerbate certain behavioural problems, eg fear aggression.
Prostate problems later in life are relatively common in entire males, unusual for it to lead to euthanasia though. Testicular cancer isn't particularly common in dogs and doesn't tend to spread.
I had my dog castrated at 2 years old, not because he was aggressive but because he was constantly being attacked by other entire male dogs and he just wanted to play. It did't change his personality and he is still trim but will never quite have the muscle definition of an entire dog. It solved the problem.
On the whole I would say castrated dogs make slightly easier pets, especially if you don't take training too seriously.
In your case I suspect that you are right and he is just being a pup, seek the advice of a behaviourist and only castrate once he is fully grown if you do decide it is best.
Neighbours have a male Chocolate lab who has been done at about a year and a half.
- It hasn't changed his behaviour in the slightest. He's still as mad as a box of frogs, plays like a nutter.
- They have to be really careful with his weight now - he puts it on really easily.
- He didn't hump anything to start with ... he got humped by our female GSD instead. She is a little, er, dominant.
What it has improved (massively) is his urine spraying which was becoming a bit of an issue.
- It hasn't changed his behaviour in the slightest. He's still as mad as a box of frogs, plays like a nutter.
- They have to be really careful with his weight now - he puts it on really easily.
- He didn't hump anything to start with ... he got humped by our female GSD instead. She is a little, er, dominant.
What it has improved (massively) is his urine spraying which was becoming a bit of an issue.
jmsgld said:
I'm a vet, I don't advocate the neutering of all male dogs. There are pros and cons.
There is one paper that reported an increased risk of joint disease in Dobermans that were neutered before maturity. It makes sense as there is some control of growth plate closure by the male hormones, so removing the largest source of those hormones will lead to altered growth. I advise against juvenile neutering of large breed dogs, as do most vets.
I am not convinced that there is any increase in cancer directly from neutering.
As a population, castrated male dogs are more likely to be overweight, which increases risks of a whole host of things from diabetes to cancer.
There is a certain amount of confidence that comes from being entire and removing that can exacerbate certain behavioural problems, eg fear aggression.
Prostate problems later in life are relatively common in entire males, unusual for it to lead to euthanasia though. Testicular cancer isn't particularly common in dogs and doesn't tend to spread.
I had my dog castrated at 2 years old, not because he was aggressive but because he was constantly being attacked by other entire male dogs and he just wanted to play. It did't change his personality and he is still trim but will never quite have the muscle definition of an entire dog. It solved the problem.
On the whole I would say castrated dogs make slightly easier pets, especially if you don't take training too seriously.
In your case I suspect that you are right and he is just being a pup, seek the advice of a behaviourist and only castrate once he is fully grown if you do decide it is best.
Very interesting. What are your thoughts on spaying bThere is one paper that reported an increased risk of joint disease in Dobermans that were neutered before maturity. It makes sense as there is some control of growth plate closure by the male hormones, so removing the largest source of those hormones will lead to altered growth. I advise against juvenile neutering of large breed dogs, as do most vets.
I am not convinced that there is any increase in cancer directly from neutering.
As a population, castrated male dogs are more likely to be overweight, which increases risks of a whole host of things from diabetes to cancer.
There is a certain amount of confidence that comes from being entire and removing that can exacerbate certain behavioural problems, eg fear aggression.
Prostate problems later in life are relatively common in entire males, unusual for it to lead to euthanasia though. Testicular cancer isn't particularly common in dogs and doesn't tend to spread.
I had my dog castrated at 2 years old, not because he was aggressive but because he was constantly being attacked by other entire male dogs and he just wanted to play. It did't change his personality and he is still trim but will never quite have the muscle definition of an entire dog. It solved the problem.
On the whole I would say castrated dogs make slightly easier pets, especially if you don't take training too seriously.
In your case I suspect that you are right and he is just being a pup, seek the advice of a behaviourist and only castrate once he is fully grown if you do decide it is best.
hes?An additional matter to consider is that no surgery is without risks. Spaying can lead to serious issues (I know a few bhes who now can not control their bladders having been able to do so in the years before being spayed, vets deny any wrongdoing of course) and in males it can go wrong as well.
Not something to be taken lightly in my view.
hes who now can not control their bladders having been able to do so in the years before being spayed, vets deny any wrongdoing of course) and in males it can go wrong as well. Not something to be taken lightly in my view.
I wonder how much of the "aggressive " behaviour in male dogs is down to poor or no training. It seems to me as each year goes by I see Dog Owners have less control of their Dogs off lead. It seems a bit unfair to have your bits chopped off because your owner has spent the time to train you properly.
I had my Rottweiler done at 15 months after speaking to the breeder.
His character didn’t change at all, he is still full of energy and loves running around. Is the same around other dogs (not too fussed) and generally a very good dog.
After speaking to some breeders they reccomended I do it once he stops getting taller which I measured up till 15 months and he hadn’t moved in 2 months.
He is 51kg, eats between 1.5 and 2kg of raw a day and you can see his last 2 rubs, he is a lean good condition dog.
I would speak to breeders who use the dogs as working dogs, they seem to want different traits in their dog and believe healthier because of it.
Dave!
His character didn’t change at all, he is still full of energy and loves running around. Is the same around other dogs (not too fussed) and generally a very good dog.
After speaking to some breeders they reccomended I do it once he stops getting taller which I measured up till 15 months and he hadn’t moved in 2 months.
He is 51kg, eats between 1.5 and 2kg of raw a day and you can see his last 2 rubs, he is a lean good condition dog.
I would speak to breeders who use the dogs as working dogs, they seem to want different traits in their dog and believe healthier because of it.
Dave!
USMI (Urinary sphincter mechanism incontinence) ie incontinence, is a well documented complication after spaying, reported at 1-30%, noone denies this.
It tends to be mild and well controlled with a relatively inexpensive syrup.
There are pros and cons to anything. The main pro with spaying is to reduce the chances of breast cancer. Breast cancer is the most common type of cancer in entire female dogs. Roughly half of breast cancers in dogs are malignant ie bad.
Spaying before 1st season reduces chances to well under 1%, before 2nd season 8%, before 3rd season 26%.
So spaying all female dogs before 1st season would almost eradicate the most common type of cancer in these dogs. That said large dogs are at increased risks of USMI and previously mentioned joint disease and so must be considered on a case by case basis.
Any surgery carries risk of death, but in a young healthy dog that is exceedingly unlikely.
It's all about making an informed choice, your vet will be happy to discuss.
It tends to be mild and well controlled with a relatively inexpensive syrup.
There are pros and cons to anything. The main pro with spaying is to reduce the chances of breast cancer. Breast cancer is the most common type of cancer in entire female dogs. Roughly half of breast cancers in dogs are malignant ie bad.
Spaying before 1st season reduces chances to well under 1%, before 2nd season 8%, before 3rd season 26%.
So spaying all female dogs before 1st season would almost eradicate the most common type of cancer in these dogs. That said large dogs are at increased risks of USMI and previously mentioned joint disease and so must be considered on a case by case basis.
Any surgery carries risk of death, but in a young healthy dog that is exceedingly unlikely.
It's all about making an informed choice, your vet will be happy to discuss.
jmsgld said:
I'm a vet, I don't advocate the neutering of all male dogs. There are pros and cons.
There is one paper that reported an increased risk of joint disease in Dobermans that were neutered before maturity. It makes sense as there is some control of growth plate closure by the male hormones, so removing the largest source of those hormones will lead to altered growth. I advise against juvenile neutering of large breed dogs, as do most vets.
I am not convinced that there is any increase in cancer directly from neutering.
As a population, castrated male dogs are more likely to be overweight, which increases risks of a whole host of things from diabetes to cancer.
There is a certain amount of confidence that comes from being entire and removing that can exacerbate certain behavioural problems, eg fear aggression.
Prostate problems later in life are relatively common in entire males, unusual for it to lead to euthanasia though. Testicular cancer isn't particularly common in dogs and doesn't tend to spread.
I had my dog castrated at 2 years old, not because he was aggressive but because he was constantly being attacked by other entire male dogs and he just wanted to play. It did't change his personality and he is still trim but will never quite have the muscle definition of an entire dog. It solved the problem.
On the whole I would say castrated dogs make slightly easier pets, especially if you don't take training too seriously.
In your case I suspect that you are right and he is just being a pup, seek the advice of a behaviourist and only castrate once he is fully grown if you do decide it is best.
Totally agree, I'm not a vet but have looked into the pro's and con's of neutering as it really affected my boy who the vet advised early castration due to a buried an undescended testicle. As we found later this would not have posed a risk until MUCH later in life. He would have benefitted from reaching full emotional and physical maturity. There is one paper that reported an increased risk of joint disease in Dobermans that were neutered before maturity. It makes sense as there is some control of growth plate closure by the male hormones, so removing the largest source of those hormones will lead to altered growth. I advise against juvenile neutering of large breed dogs, as do most vets.
I am not convinced that there is any increase in cancer directly from neutering.
As a population, castrated male dogs are more likely to be overweight, which increases risks of a whole host of things from diabetes to cancer.
There is a certain amount of confidence that comes from being entire and removing that can exacerbate certain behavioural problems, eg fear aggression.
Prostate problems later in life are relatively common in entire males, unusual for it to lead to euthanasia though. Testicular cancer isn't particularly common in dogs and doesn't tend to spread.
I had my dog castrated at 2 years old, not because he was aggressive but because he was constantly being attacked by other entire male dogs and he just wanted to play. It did't change his personality and he is still trim but will never quite have the muscle definition of an entire dog. It solved the problem.
On the whole I would say castrated dogs make slightly easier pets, especially if you don't take training too seriously.
In your case I suspect that you are right and he is just being a pup, seek the advice of a behaviourist and only castrate once he is fully grown if you do decide it is best.
Interesting what you say about joints because the Dachshund Breed Council conducts an annual health survey. It has particularly asked questions on cancer and IVDD. With IVDD there is a significant increase in incidences in dogs and b
hes who had early de-sexing. https://cgejournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1...
The role of testosterone is complex, I would totally agree that if you have a behaviour problem that you are thinking that castration will 'solve' the chances are it won't. There is a significant risk that it could become a lot worse or create new problems. A behaviourists advice is really advisable.
Essentially testosterone boosts confidence, this increases resilience as it goes through puppyhood, adolescence and to maturity.... a big risk factor is the secondary fear phase where dogs can become nervous of things they had previously been ok with (like sensitive human teens lol)….I think this is where people think that extra confidence has to be a bad thing - it isn't always because the threshold is higher (so it takes a lot more for a trigger to tip them over) so losing the testosterone can have a much bigger impact on them especially for an already a timid or quieter dog then the loss can be profoundly life changing.
So by leaving a dog until it reaches full maturity, the testosterone will act as a buffer to protect the dog emotionally which allows him to experience the world and learn, and develop physically and acquire great social skills. A good behaviourist or trainer can help this learning journey as many offer a range of experiences that you can join to boost your dogs confidence and skills alongside your daily routines.
Lowering the threshold for aggression, so the dog has less 'patience' in it's bank, it reacts sooner and more intensely. So when castrated dogs do bite/fight they are longer and more sustained attacks (on other dogs). This is why fear-based aggression is greatly increased in early castrated dogs.
Don't rush into it, do continue to research.
I wish I had known this 9 years ago.
Thanks, I wasn't aware of that study of Dachshunds.
It is a well written paper and a plausible theory. The main limitation (also identified by the authors) is that the BCS (ie fatness) of the dogs was reported by the owners, and was clearly vastly under reported. The previous links by J&J are v. poor and ok respectively.
I wonder how much of the increased risk of IVDD is actually attributable to unreported obesity in the study group.
Obesity predisposes to a vast array of diseases, with more being added on a regular basis as the research is conducted. It is entirely possible to keep a neutered dog lean, but much easier if that dog is entire.
I am also of the opinion to try and keep things natural, unless there is an evidence base to do otherwise, hence it is always best to evaluate each dog on an individual basis rather than use broad assertions.
So discuss the options with your vet and don't be told it is always best to neuter at 6 months as some do.
It is a well written paper and a plausible theory. The main limitation (also identified by the authors) is that the BCS (ie fatness) of the dogs was reported by the owners, and was clearly vastly under reported. The previous links by J&J are v. poor and ok respectively.
I wonder how much of the increased risk of IVDD is actually attributable to unreported obesity in the study group.
Obesity predisposes to a vast array of diseases, with more being added on a regular basis as the research is conducted. It is entirely possible to keep a neutered dog lean, but much easier if that dog is entire.
I am also of the opinion to try and keep things natural, unless there is an evidence base to do otherwise, hence it is always best to evaluate each dog on an individual basis rather than use broad assertions.
So discuss the options with your vet and don't be told it is always best to neuter at 6 months as some do.
jmsgld said:
Thanks, I wasn't aware of that study of Dachshunds.
It is a well written paper and a plausible theory. The main limitation (also identified by the authors) is that the BCS (ie fatness) of the dogs was reported by the owners, and was clearly vastly under reported. The previous links by J&J are v. poor and ok respectively.
I wonder how much of the increased risk of IVDD is actually attributable to unreported obesity in the study group.
Obesity predisposes to a vast array of diseases, with more being added on a regular basis as the research is conducted. It is entirely possible to keep a neutered dog lean, but much easier if that dog is entire.
I am also of the opinion to try and keep things natural, unless there is an evidence base to do otherwise, hence it is always best to evaluate each dog on an individual basis rather than use broad assertions.
So discuss the options with your vet and don't be told it is always best to neuter at 6 months as some do.
Hiya,It is a well written paper and a plausible theory. The main limitation (also identified by the authors) is that the BCS (ie fatness) of the dogs was reported by the owners, and was clearly vastly under reported. The previous links by J&J are v. poor and ok respectively.
I wonder how much of the increased risk of IVDD is actually attributable to unreported obesity in the study group.
Obesity predisposes to a vast array of diseases, with more being added on a regular basis as the research is conducted. It is entirely possible to keep a neutered dog lean, but much easier if that dog is entire.
I am also of the opinion to try and keep things natural, unless there is an evidence base to do otherwise, hence it is always best to evaluate each dog on an individual basis rather than use broad assertions.
So discuss the options with your vet and don't be told it is always best to neuter at 6 months as some do.
Yes I would agree about obesity (i cringe when I see some!) and also there are other factors which I believe contribute. Such as huge rise in sedentary (instagram) lifestyle dogs which are purchased by people on trend without understanding the breed traits and needs.
I am struck by the lack of awareness about general physical health, emotional and breed health (so keeping lean, doing brain work such as scent games or fit paws balance and avoiding twisting and jumping whilst ensuring core body strength and exercise). All of this and recent trends of ownership demographics i think contribute.
Thankfully I hear more caution and thought being advised now by vets as to timing of castration - which is a good thing. And yes each dog should be considered according to all the factors - sadly if I had sought a behaviourist to help me see a bigger picture I am certain i would have been advised to wait
you can't put the testosterone back so I always urge people to really think it through and find out exactly what is going on before deciding. 
parakitaMol. said:
jmsgld said:
I'm a vet, I don't advocate the neutering of all male dogs. There are pros and cons.
There is one paper that reported an increased risk of joint disease in Dobermans that were neutered before maturity. It makes sense as there is some control of growth plate closure by the male hormones, so removing the largest source of those hormones will lead to altered growth. I advise against juvenile neutering of large breed dogs, as do most vets.
I am not convinced that there is any increase in cancer directly from neutering.
As a population, castrated male dogs are more likely to be overweight, which increases risks of a whole host of things from diabetes to cancer.
There is a certain amount of confidence that comes from being entire and removing that can exacerbate certain behavioural problems, eg fear aggression.
Prostate problems later in life are relatively common in entire males, unusual for it to lead to euthanasia though. Testicular cancer isn't particularly common in dogs and doesn't tend to spread.
I had my dog castrated at 2 years old, not because he was aggressive but because he was constantly being attacked by other entire male dogs and he just wanted to play. It did't change his personality and he is still trim but will never quite have the muscle definition of an entire dog. It solved the problem.
On the whole I would say castrated dogs make slightly easier pets, especially if you don't take training too seriously.
In your case I suspect that you are right and he is just being a pup, seek the advice of a behaviourist and only castrate once he is fully grown if you do decide it is best.
Totally agree, I'm not a vet but have looked into the pro's and con's of neutering as it really affected my boy who the vet advised early castration due to a buried an undescended testicle. As we found later this would not have posed a risk until MUCH later in life. He would have benefitted from reaching full emotional and physical maturity. There is one paper that reported an increased risk of joint disease in Dobermans that were neutered before maturity. It makes sense as there is some control of growth plate closure by the male hormones, so removing the largest source of those hormones will lead to altered growth. I advise against juvenile neutering of large breed dogs, as do most vets.
I am not convinced that there is any increase in cancer directly from neutering.
As a population, castrated male dogs are more likely to be overweight, which increases risks of a whole host of things from diabetes to cancer.
There is a certain amount of confidence that comes from being entire and removing that can exacerbate certain behavioural problems, eg fear aggression.
Prostate problems later in life are relatively common in entire males, unusual for it to lead to euthanasia though. Testicular cancer isn't particularly common in dogs and doesn't tend to spread.
I had my dog castrated at 2 years old, not because he was aggressive but because he was constantly being attacked by other entire male dogs and he just wanted to play. It did't change his personality and he is still trim but will never quite have the muscle definition of an entire dog. It solved the problem.
On the whole I would say castrated dogs make slightly easier pets, especially if you don't take training too seriously.
In your case I suspect that you are right and he is just being a pup, seek the advice of a behaviourist and only castrate once he is fully grown if you do decide it is best.
Interesting what you say about joints because the Dachshund Breed Council conducts an annual health survey. It has particularly asked questions on cancer and IVDD. With IVDD there is a significant increase in incidences in dogs and b
hes who had early de-sexing. https://cgejournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1...
The role of testosterone is complex, I would totally agree that if you have a behaviour problem that you are thinking that castration will 'solve' the chances are it won't. There is a significant risk that it could become a lot worse or create new problems. A behaviourists advice is really advisable.
Essentially testosterone boosts confidence, this increases resilience as it goes through puppyhood, adolescence and to maturity.... a big risk factor is the secondary fear phase where dogs can become nervous of things they had previously been ok with (like sensitive human teens lol)….I think this is where people think that extra confidence has to be a bad thing - it isn't always because the threshold is higher (so it takes a lot more for a trigger to tip them over) so losing the testosterone can have a much bigger impact on them especially for an already a timid or quieter dog then the loss can be profoundly life changing.
So by leaving a dog until it reaches full maturity, the testosterone will act as a buffer to protect the dog emotionally which allows him to experience the world and learn, and develop physically and acquire great social skills. A good behaviourist or trainer can help this learning journey as many offer a range of experiences that you can join to boost your dogs confidence and skills alongside your daily routines.
Lowering the threshold for aggression, so the dog has less 'patience' in it's bank, it reacts sooner and more intensely. So when castrated dogs do bite/fight they are longer and more sustained attacks (on other dogs). This is why fear-based aggression is greatly increased in early castrated dogs.
Don't rush into it, do continue to research.
I wish I had known this 9 years ago.
I have had 3 Male dogs over the last 20 plus years non of them left this earth without the same equipment they came into to it with. My BullMastiff came to me at 2 years old and when we took him to Socialise with a bh at the RSPCA they asked me why he was still fully intact my answer was quite short and as the bh had been spayed I couldn't see the problem.
I should add that we have always taken in problem Dogs and the aggressive ones have been the bhes not the Dogs. If its for a medical reason or for over aggression then I understand why Neutering is required but it just seems to me to be a magic bullet for some people
h at the RSPCA they asked me why he was still fully intact my answer was quite short and as the bh had been spayed I couldn't see the problem.I should add that we have always taken in problem Dogs and the aggressive ones have been the b
hes not the Dogs. If its for a medical reason or for over aggression then I understand why Neutering is required but it just seems to me to be a magic bullet for some peopleGassing Station | All Creatures Great & Small | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff