Dual Nationality - practicalities of two passports

[Whoozit]

PF62 said:

worsy said:

Yes if I am correct the rules are:

UK to EU - Permitted to stay 90 days in any 180 days to a maximum of 180 days in any 12 month period.

EU to UK - Permitted to stay for 6 months per visit. This means you can exit the UK and return and the 6 months starts again.

What a wonderful ‘cake and eat it’ negotiation the UK achieved.

Passing time in FRA recently waiting to go through immigration, I looked at the countries allowed to use the biometric machines. Pretty much everyone the UK allows (EU, EEA, Japan, US, Aus etc) EXCEPT the UK. Annoying political posturing however since this suggests the infrastructure still exists, is hopefully one of those things that could be on the negotiating table.

[PF62]

Whoozit said:

Passing time in FRA recently waiting to go through immigration, I looked at the countries allowed to use the biometric machines. Pretty much everyone the UK allows (EU, EEA, Japan, US, Aus etc) EXCEPT the UK. Annoying political posturing however since this suggests the infrastructure still exists, is hopefully one of those things that could be on the negotiating table.

The issue is the 90/180 rule and the EU systems can't currently track time you were in Schengen through the biometric machines, but will be able to when both ETIAS and EES are turned on by the EU.

ETIAS is the visa waiver scheme for which UK nationals will need to apply for and a machine readable passport is a requirement for it as that is where the details of the ETIAS visa waiver will be held.

EES is the computerised 'entry and exit' system that will remove the need for 'wet stamping' passports and will alert the EU border guards automatically to anyone overstaying under the 90/180 rule (and will provide access to a website so people can check how many days they have left).

So theoretically there will be no need for UK citizens to have to queue to have their passport manually inspected by an EU border guard and stamped as the border guard will still need to run it through the machine anyway to check for ETIAS and enter the details to EES, but whether that happens or not likely depends on whether or not the UK has pissed off the EU again.

[Whoozit]

PF62 said:

Whoozit said:

Passing time in FRA recently waiting to go through immigration, I looked at the countries allowed to use the biometric machines. Pretty much everyone the UK allows (EU, EEA, Japan, US, Aus etc) EXCEPT the UK. Annoying political posturing however since this suggests the infrastructure still exists, is hopefully one of those things that could be on the negotiating table.

The issue is the 90/180 rule and the EU systems can't currently track time you were in Schengen through the biometric machines, but will be able to when both ETIAS and EES are turned on by the EU.

ETIAS is the visa waiver scheme for which UK nationals will need to apply for and a machine readable passport is a requirement for it as that is where the details of the ETIAS visa waiver will be held.

EES is the computerised 'entry and exit' system that will remove the need for 'wet stamping' passports and will alert the EU border guards automatically to anyone overstaying under the 90/180 rule (and will provide access to a website so people can check how many days they have left).

So theoretically there will be no need for UK citizens to have to queue to have their passport manually inspected by an EU border guard and stamped as the border guard will still need to run it through the machine anyway to check for ETIAS and enter the details to EES, but whether that happens or not likely depends on whether or not the UK has pissed off the EU again.

Ah interesting. Why isn't that a problem for the other countries?

[PF62]

Whoozit said:

PF62 said:

Whoozit said:

Passing time in FRA recently waiting to go through immigration, I looked at the countries allowed to use the biometric machines. Pretty much everyone the UK allows (EU, EEA, Japan, US, Aus etc) EXCEPT the UK. Annoying political posturing however since this suggests the infrastructure still exists, is hopefully one of those things that could be on the negotiating table.

The issue is the 90/180 rule and the EU systems can't currently track time you were in Schengen through the biometric machines, but will be able to when both ETIAS and EES are turned on by the EU.

ETIAS is the visa waiver scheme for which UK nationals will need to apply for and a machine readable passport is a requirement for it as that is where the details of the ETIAS visa waiver will be held.

EES is the computerised 'entry and exit' system that will remove the need for 'wet stamping' passports and will alert the EU border guards automatically to anyone overstaying under the 90/180 rule (and will provide access to a website so people can check how many days they have left).

So theoretically there will be no need for UK citizens to have to queue to have their passport manually inspected by an EU border guard and stamped as the border guard will still need to run it through the machine anyway to check for ETIAS and enter the details to EES, but whether that happens or not likely depends on whether or not the UK has pissed off the EU again.

Ah interesting. Why isn't that a problem for the other countries?

Those countries have bilateral agreements that long pre-date the Schengen rules, as did the UK back in the mists of time.

But those agreements were superseded when the UK joined the EU and as EU citizens we gained far better rights to a freedom of movement to travel anywhere in the EU and spend as long as we wanted wherever we wanted.

Then as a nation we decided we didn't want those rights, and compounded the issue by choosing 'fields of wheat' and 'wiff waff' to negotiate a new agreement with the EU for us.

And of course being ace negotiators they told the EU upfront the generous terms on which its citizens could come to the UK once we had left, and thus had nothing to counter when the the EU told them 'tough, you get nothing other than the basic offer'.

[nickfrog]

.

So true. Sadly.

We have actually lost a lot of control. Far more than we have gained.