Double glazing salesmen - why can't they just give a price?
Discussion
When we moved in to our house, we started using a company for stuff like this on the strength of the fact that they sent a scruffy fitter round in a van to measure up, not a sharp-suited salesman.
Then they just send a quote in the post, and it's cheaper than all the big national firms, amazingly.
Then they just send a quote in the post, and it's cheaper than all the big national firms, amazingly.
Plantation shutters is where the DG sharks seemed to have moved to .
Requested a quote from a well known company , they would only come out and quote for the job if the "decision maker "of the household was going to be present at the time.
I refused to even let them come and quote such was the pressure I was getting over the phone.
They rang up about a month later with a not to be repeated special offer if we ordered today , the local blind shop had already been and measured , ordered without a deposit and fitted them telling us only to pay when 100% satisfied.
Trust your local independent to come up with the goods.
Requested a quote from a well known company , they would only come out and quote for the job if the "decision maker "of the household was going to be present at the time.
I refused to even let them come and quote such was the pressure I was getting over the phone.
They rang up about a month later with a not to be repeated special offer if we ordered today , the local blind shop had already been and measured , ordered without a deposit and fitted them telling us only to pay when 100% satisfied.
Trust your local independent to come up with the goods.
Buster73 said:
Requested a quote from a well known company , they would only come out and quote for the job if the "decision maker "of the household was going to be present at the time.
Yep, before we settled on our local indy, one or two of them tried that on us, we put the phone down on them. Usually went hand in hand with a claim that the "sales consultation" would take approx an hour. This was for two windows. Ari said:
I appreciate there's always room for a bit of negotiation, but all this b
ks about 'ooh I'll have to ring my boss for you, ooh it's your lucky day, he must be in a good mood, I've got you xxx extra and you can have triple glazing for the price of double' before eventually ending up at half the original (stupid) figure?
Oh, but only if we sign up within the next two days!! Really? If we call on day three are they honestly going to tell us we can't have it?
I know I know, just get a local bloke in. Tried that. Got a sensible price, accepted, booked in, then excuse after excuse before finally he disappeared completely, never to be heard of again.
Hard work buying things sometimes isn't it?
This company are they the sort of people that would describe themselves the very top or the crowning point? ks about 'ooh I'll have to ring my boss for you, ooh it's your lucky day, he must be in a good mood, I've got you xxx extra and you can have triple glazing for the price of double' before eventually ending up at half the original (stupid) figure?Oh, but only if we sign up within the next two days!! Really? If we call on day three are they honestly going to tell us we can't have it?
I know I know, just get a local bloke in. Tried that. Got a sensible price, accepted, booked in, then excuse after excuse before finally he disappeared completely, never to be heard of again.
Hard work buying things sometimes isn't it?
I sold windows for eight years. I avoided all the on the night closing techniques, but they do work.
As simple way to justify them is, most salespeople want to quote and sell. That means normally having both partners there. This makes the evening prime selling time.
With 5 evenings and one Saturday morning to do the selling you cant just write a price and walk out the door. Yes, you will ring your sales manager at the end of each evening but more importantly you need to make wages. Commission only is the norm so no sale means no money.
So, the on the night carrot is actually quite easy to justify if used correctly.
This is the price £xx,xxx
Volume discount makes it this £x,xxx
That's honest sales. Nothing wrong with a price or a volume discount. The next step, the on the night close has to be justified. No point even starting the conversation though unless you have good buy in from the homeowner. If they like the windows, think they will go ahead but want to think about it, it makes sense to offer an incentive to buy on the night.
I do feel that the art of selling is disappearing though. I see people pop quotes in the post, email a pricelist, try and close far too early.
As simple way to justify them is, most salespeople want to quote and sell. That means normally having both partners there. This makes the evening prime selling time.
With 5 evenings and one Saturday morning to do the selling you cant just write a price and walk out the door. Yes, you will ring your sales manager at the end of each evening but more importantly you need to make wages. Commission only is the norm so no sale means no money.
So, the on the night carrot is actually quite easy to justify if used correctly.
This is the price £xx,xxx
Volume discount makes it this £x,xxx
That's honest sales. Nothing wrong with a price or a volume discount. The next step, the on the night close has to be justified. No point even starting the conversation though unless you have good buy in from the homeowner. If they like the windows, think they will go ahead but want to think about it, it makes sense to offer an incentive to buy on the night.
I do feel that the art of selling is disappearing though. I see people pop quotes in the post, email a pricelist, try and close far too early.
TinyCappo said:
This company are they the sort of people that would describe themselves the very top or the crowning point?
It doesn't matter which one it was on this occasion. All of the major companies have the same MO, so it's unfair to single any of them out. It's not just the big firms either. Many smaller companies operate the same way, as they are run and staffed by people who used to work for the best known ones. ChemicalChaos said:
Christ, are they still going? I thought they went tits when Bernstein Group went under a few years ago and dragged all their home improvements brands with it.
I've got family that worked in the directorship of Sharps, Moben/Dolphin and Portland when they were all owned by MKD and trust me, if you think that is bad then you aint heard nothing compared to some of the tales I've been privy to!
.
I worked for Portland for about 10 years as a draughtsman be interested to know who you knew. I've got family that worked in the directorship of Sharps, Moben/Dolphin and Portland when they were all owned by MKD and trust me, if you think that is bad then you aint heard nothing compared to some of the tales I've been privy to!
.
I had nothing to do with sales/prices just produce drawings.
slippery said:
The reason that double glazing companies use the approach that's described, is because it results in more sales than just delivering one price. Everyone looks for a deal when they are buying double glazing, so the companies build this is when quoting. The practice is actually driven by the very people that complain about it.
I get that completely. But double!?Put it this way, if you were selling a car that you were happy to let go for £10K, would you ask £20K? Because that's what these guys do.
Ari said:
I get that completely. But double!?
Put it this way, if you were selling a car that you were happy to let go for £10K, would you ask £20K? Because that's what these guys do.
Actually, the starting price to bottom line reduction with most of the larger companies isn't around 50%, it's nearer 65%. So your 20k should land nearer 7k than 10k. Put it this way, if you were selling a car that you were happy to let go for £10K, would you ask £20K? Because that's what these guys do.
Edited by slippery on Tuesday 18th February 23:39
A bit OT, but every town and city has a company trading as Budget Windows or something similar. If you're buying windows, I suggest you give them a bye-ball. There's a reason they trade under that name.
(I was standing outside someone's house the other day waiting for them to answer the door, and glanced at the next-door house. The living-room window was uPVC and leaned inwards from bottom to top by about 10 degrees. I kid you not. Worst fitting I've ever seen - mind you, they may have done it themselves. Some companies will happily sell a window direct to a punter, who then attempts to fix it to the wall with a few 4-inch screws and wallplugs.)
(I was standing outside someone's house the other day waiting for them to answer the door, and glanced at the next-door house. The living-room window was uPVC and leaned inwards from bottom to top by about 10 degrees. I kid you not. Worst fitting I've ever seen - mind you, they may have done it themselves. Some companies will happily sell a window direct to a punter, who then attempts to fix it to the wall with a few 4-inch screws and wallplugs.)
slippery said:
The reason that double glazing companies use the approach that's described, is because it results in more sales than just delivering one price. Everyone looks for a deal when they are buying double glazing, so the companies build this is when quoting. The practice is actually driven by the very people that complain about it.
+1Its the same in the motor trade. People were conditioned to expect £500-£1000 off the sticker price, so even if you "give away" your £1,000 discount by advertising it with the lowest price you can take, even if you are the cheapest out there, people still expect £500-1000 off that, then get miffed because you're not giving them discount.
You see it on some forums - "how much discount can i expect off a car priced at £9995?"
We chose 2 local family companies, who had been in business a reasonable length of time. Both measured, took notes on handles and type of door. The both went away and sent a quote in the post. The quotes were almost identical and about 40% of the starting point of another national from 5 years previously. We couldn't make our mind up so the first one to ring up to check we had received the quote got the business, we went along to the showroom and made some slight changes to window style, chose the door colour etc and they fitted it about 8 weeks later.
Completely hassle free.
Completely hassle free.
CoolHands said:
I've got one coming from a local company wed morning as it happens. To replace all original wooden sash windows with upvc 
I shall report back. An independent company, but they are Ealing based so possibly pricey. My finger in the air figure is 3 grand, so lets see.
here's the front windows, a 'venetian box' (the middle flat):
Well mine's just been and gone. Pleasantly surprised actually - in and out in half hour / forty minutes. I knew basically what I wanted (sliding sash with narrow frames decent u-value etc) so wasn't too much sales guff; prices approx what I expected to be honest. I was expecting the whole pressure thing / sale today / 40% off etc but there was none of that - bottom line is £3200 for the (three) windows you see in the pic; £1500 for a back bedroom similarly large, and £1300 for other bedroom similar style but smaller. Plus one other little casement window for £285. I shall report back. An independent company, but they are Ealing based so possibly pricey. My finger in the air figure is 3 grand, so lets see.here's the front windows, a 'venetian box' (the middle flat):
So total fitted price £6300 (eek!
). I then tried to pressure him about the price(!) but it was fixed, that was that. So quite a straight deal really, you take it or leave it, which is good practice in my opinion. I had a look at an online supply company it came to about £4000 so I think this is not too bad a price for a window firm. My 3 grand price above is clearly well-off since I couldn't even buy them online for that. Obviously they're making on the windows as well as fitting side of things, but they have a good reputation and that's my main criteria.FYI the windows are over 2 meters tall, so pretty large.
Edited by CoolHands on Wednesday 19th February 14:57
daemon said:
+1
Its the same in the motor trade. People were conditioned to expect £500-£1000 off the sticker price, so even if you "give away" your £1,000 discount by advertising it with the lowest price you can take, even if you are the cheapest out there, people still expect £500-1000 off that, then get miffed because you're not giving them discount.
You see it on some forums - "how much discount can i expect off a car priced at £9995?"
So your bottom line is £9995. Would you ask £22,000? Its the same in the motor trade. People were conditioned to expect £500-£1000 off the sticker price, so even if you "give away" your £1,000 discount by advertising it with the lowest price you can take, even if you are the cheapest out there, people still expect £500-1000 off that, then get miffed because you're not giving them discount.
You see it on some forums - "how much discount can i expect off a car priced at £9995?"
Just a postscript to this. After getting quoted £8,000 by the mountain people 'but today, for you sir, after ringing my boss and ONLY if you sign up within 48 hours, £4,500!!!', we got recommended a local chap that seems really brilliant, knows what he's talking about, and spent 10 mins in the house before giving us a quote for about £1,500!
Needless to say he got the job.
Needless to say he got the job.
With stuff like this, you need to be clear to the salesman that the normal games won't work.
"I'm afraid that some of your competitors over inflate their quotes so that they can offer discounts. I do not want to waste my time on this so please supply your best can do quote. I am giving five suppliers the chance to do this and I will simply go with the best quote (not necessarily the cheapest, I will consider quality and service too). No vendor will see others quotes and no vendor will have the chance to submit alter their quote. I'm sure you'll understand why I'm doing this."
They don't like it much mind.
"I'm afraid that some of your competitors over inflate their quotes so that they can offer discounts. I do not want to waste my time on this so please supply your best can do quote. I am giving five suppliers the chance to do this and I will simply go with the best quote (not necessarily the cheapest, I will consider quality and service too). No vendor will see others quotes and no vendor will have the chance to submit alter their quote. I'm sure you'll understand why I'm doing this."
They don't like it much mind.
I had a well known company in to quote me for the whole house doing. First fugure was £22,000 but they would do them for £11,000 if i signed then and there. I said no not a chance. After a brief phone call with his boss they would do them for £5000 if I let them take photo's for their website. Again I said no as I only wanted a quote and wasn't going to sign anything then and there. After a half hour of sitting in his car the sales guy came back with a piece of paper with the figure of £2650 written on it and a big grin on his face saying his boss will do a special deal for us. How the fk do they get down to £2650 from £22,000????
k do they get down to £2650 from £22,000????Simond S said:
I sold windows for eight years. I avoided all the on the night closing techniques, but they do work.
As simple way to justify them is, most salespeople want to quote and sell. That means normally having both partners there. This makes the evening prime selling time.
With 5 evenings and one Saturday morning to do the selling you cant just write a price and walk out the door. Yes, you will ring your sales manager at the end of each evening but more importantly you need to make wages. Commission only is the norm so no sale means no money.
So, the on the night carrot is actually quite easy to justify if used correctly.
This is the price £xx,xxx
Volume discount makes it this £x,xxx
That's honest sales. Nothing wrong with a price or a volume discount. The next step, the on the night close has to be justified. No point even starting the conversation though unless you have good buy in from the homeowner. If they like the windows, think they will go ahead but want to think about it, it makes sense to offer an incentive to buy on the night.
I do feel that the art of selling is disappearing though. I see people pop quotes in the post, email a pricelist, try and close far too early.
Whilst I agree with most of what you are saying here, if you are a good salesman, with a proven track record, then sell yourself to the business you are working for, and get salaried. Companies would kill to keep good salesmen.As simple way to justify them is, most salespeople want to quote and sell. That means normally having both partners there. This makes the evening prime selling time.
With 5 evenings and one Saturday morning to do the selling you cant just write a price and walk out the door. Yes, you will ring your sales manager at the end of each evening but more importantly you need to make wages. Commission only is the norm so no sale means no money.
So, the on the night carrot is actually quite easy to justify if used correctly.
This is the price £xx,xxx
Volume discount makes it this £x,xxx
That's honest sales. Nothing wrong with a price or a volume discount. The next step, the on the night close has to be justified. No point even starting the conversation though unless you have good buy in from the homeowner. If they like the windows, think they will go ahead but want to think about it, it makes sense to offer an incentive to buy on the night.
I do feel that the art of selling is disappearing though. I see people pop quotes in the post, email a pricelist, try and close far too early.
Going through this charade of a purchasing process right now. Aware of "the game" as a result of my FIL getting his original £20k quote for his reduced to £6k. If people are daft enough to pay it then more fool them, but it is those who aren't able to make that distinction (eg the elderly) that wll fall prey. £14k padding is taking the piss.
First quote for mine (5 small windows, 2 doors) was £6k and a local "we don't inflate our prices, you get what you see guvnor" approach. Spouted a load of cobblers about regulations needing me to spend a fortune. A quick look on google showed him to be full of it...
Found a local firm, who have an online calculator - you can run whatever quote you want and then price it. Very competitive. they'll be doing the install within the month.
First quote for mine (5 small windows, 2 doors) was £6k and a local "we don't inflate our prices, you get what you see guvnor" approach. Spouted a load of cobblers about regulations needing me to spend a fortune. A quick look on google showed him to be full of it...
Found a local firm, who have an online calculator - you can run whatever quote you want and then price it. Very competitive. they'll be doing the install within the month.
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