Double glazing salesmen - why can't they just give a price?
Discussion
Our local chappy asked whether we wanted A rated glazing, think it is slightly better insulated. Was about £50 more I think so we had it.
All done now and he's done a great job, and was quick and tidy. All for about a quarter of the 'massively discounted' price and with no bulls
t. Oh, and there's a 10 year guaruntee too. 
Unfortunately he's in the South west, so no good to you.
All done now and he's done a great job, and was quick and tidy. All for about a quarter of the 'massively discounted' price and with no bulls
t. Oh, and there's a 10 year guaruntee too. Unfortunately he's in the South west, so no good to you.
Just had a very quick look at a local company and lo and behold, their windows are A Rated, have the same kitemarks, the same "Secured By Design" certification and they are ISO9001. Funny, because I was told just last night by the salesman that his company was the only one in the country that could claim such a thing.
wiggy001 said:
Just had a very quick look at a local company and lo and behold, their windows are A Rated, have the same kitemarks, the same "Secured By Design" certification and they are ISO9001. Funny, because I was told just last night by the salesman that his company was the only one in the country that could claim such a thing.
Most of the smaller companies buy-in the frames from the same place. Very few make their own extrusion. Ditto glass. The reason why all sales companies do this is a psychological defect we all have called Anchoring.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchoring
I tried an experiment at work - mailed 2 sets of 5 colleagues the following questions:
Group 1) do you think there more or less than 1 hundred modules in the system we are developing.
How many modules do you think there are?
Group 2) do you think there more or less than 1 thousand modules in the system we are developing.
How many modules do you think there are?
Group 1 average answer was 85. (One numpty said more than 100 and then put 70!??)
Group 2 average answer was 770.
Quite startling really. PS : The actuall number was 460.
Next time you are selling something remember to set the price high and then come down. If buying - you should refuse to listen to any numbers until they start with a reasonable number and sing "la la la, I'm not listening" if you have to blank out that first number and reset your calibration point. You will find it very hard to not think that 6k is a decent price if you heard 20k first. But they might only be worth 4k!
Sadly a mate of mine bought from one of them and didn't know the game. Paid over £14,000 for a set of windows after their first price :-(
PS - someone alluded to the fact earlier in the thread that local budget companies should be avoided. I've got some windows that were purchased by the previous owner from one of the "quality" installers advertising on TV/Radio in the house I just bought. Only 7 years old. But there are visible gaps in doors and the seals in 3 of the windows don't make contact with the frame and 4 have locking mechanisms that are almost impossible to get into place without a lot of wiggling. Which reminds me - I have to dig out the FENSA certificate and see if it covers what is effectively defective workmanship.
Edit - just thought to add - on my last house purchase I offered 20% below asking price - knowing it was less than the price he'd paid by checking on land registry. I got the expected "can't sell at that price". But it did the job - I offered 5k more than he'd paid for it 5 years ago, and got the deal. I used my initial offer to anchor the price so the later offer was seen as more reasonable. We all know it as common sense, but knowing what a huge effect it has in negotiations means it's an awesome tools if the other person doesn't know about it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchoring
I tried an experiment at work - mailed 2 sets of 5 colleagues the following questions:
Group 1) do you think there more or less than 1 hundred modules in the system we are developing.
How many modules do you think there are?
Group 2) do you think there more or less than 1 thousand modules in the system we are developing.
How many modules do you think there are?
Group 1 average answer was 85. (One numpty said more than 100 and then put 70!??)
Group 2 average answer was 770.
Quite startling really. PS : The actuall number was 460.
Next time you are selling something remember to set the price high and then come down. If buying - you should refuse to listen to any numbers until they start with a reasonable number and sing "la la la, I'm not listening" if you have to blank out that first number and reset your calibration point. You will find it very hard to not think that 6k is a decent price if you heard 20k first. But they might only be worth 4k!
Sadly a mate of mine bought from one of them and didn't know the game. Paid over £14,000 for a set of windows after their first price :-(
PS - someone alluded to the fact earlier in the thread that local budget companies should be avoided. I've got some windows that were purchased by the previous owner from one of the "quality" installers advertising on TV/Radio in the house I just bought. Only 7 years old. But there are visible gaps in doors and the seals in 3 of the windows don't make contact with the frame and 4 have locking mechanisms that are almost impossible to get into place without a lot of wiggling. Which reminds me - I have to dig out the FENSA certificate and see if it covers what is effectively defective workmanship.
Edit - just thought to add - on my last house purchase I offered 20% below asking price - knowing it was less than the price he'd paid by checking on land registry. I got the expected "can't sell at that price". But it did the job - I offered 5k more than he'd paid for it 5 years ago, and got the deal. I used my initial offer to anchor the price so the later offer was seen as more reasonable. We all know it as common sense, but knowing what a huge effect it has in negotiations means it's an awesome tools if the other person doesn't know about it.
Edited by TransverseTight on Tuesday 25th March 13:19
wiggy001 said:
Had one of the big companies round last night and, as it was my first experience of this, I stupidly sat through all his BS:
- Building a local "buying group" to save you money
- Everything from manufacture to sales to installation is done by our staff (no middlemen, saving you money)
- Our finance saves you even more money
- You will get a TLS card for life, offering cashback that will save you even more money
- Our windows will add 14% to your property value, so pay for themselves
- Ours are the only A-Rated windows available (what does this even mean?)
- Ours are the only ones with 4 "mushroom headed bolts", 2 end bolts and 2 "dog bolts" for security
- Next year, council tax will be based on your home's energy efficiency. Our windows will improve that and save you more money
So, for 7 windows (uPVC), a sliding door to the patio and a front door we were finally given a price of £20k. If I had a board, photos, used their finance etc that then became £12k. After phoning his boss and being reminded it was their month end (on Monday 24th? Really?) we were down to £8k.
I'd said from the start I wouldn't commit to anything on the night as I needed to compare prices/windows with the competition but still he persisted. He then asked me to sign the forms he stuffed in front of me to confirm I didn't want to proceed, and seemed confused when I said I didn't need to sign for something I wasn't agreeing to!
I'll now be looking for a local firm and asking for a price and nothing more. If they can't quote in 20 minutes then I don't want to know. If anyone had recommendations in the northwest kent area (dartford, swanley etc) I'd be interested to have them.
Quick update in case it's of use to anyone.- Building a local "buying group" to save you money
- Everything from manufacture to sales to installation is done by our staff (no middlemen, saving you money)
- Our finance saves you even more money
- You will get a TLS card for life, offering cashback that will save you even more money
- Our windows will add 14% to your property value, so pay for themselves
- Ours are the only A-Rated windows available (what does this even mean?)
- Ours are the only ones with 4 "mushroom headed bolts", 2 end bolts and 2 "dog bolts" for security
- Next year, council tax will be based on your home's energy efficiency. Our windows will improve that and save you more money
So, for 7 windows (uPVC), a sliding door to the patio and a front door we were finally given a price of £20k. If I had a board, photos, used their finance etc that then became £12k. After phoning his boss and being reminded it was their month end (on Monday 24th? Really?) we were down to £8k.
I'd said from the start I wouldn't commit to anything on the night as I needed to compare prices/windows with the competition but still he persisted. He then asked me to sign the forms he stuffed in front of me to confirm I didn't want to proceed, and seemed confused when I said I didn't need to sign for something I wasn't agreeing to!
I'll now be looking for a local firm and asking for a price and nothing more. If they can't quote in 20 minutes then I don't want to know. If anyone had recommendations in the northwest kent area (dartford, swanley etc) I'd be interested to have them.
So after the above shenanigans, and several unwanted phone calls later (where I ended up telling them that I wouldn't take their windows even if they paid me) I was down to around £6k.
Things got left for a bit due to work commitments but I got a local company in at the end of the summer. Measured up, one price of £6200 and the windows (including a number of "customisations" the above company hadn't included) have just been fitted. So far the company have been a pleasure to deal with.
Really boils my piss that so many people will be conned by companies such as the one I had round first time. Hopefully people look up such companies in alphabetical order as these shysters will then be bottom of the list...
I was renovating a property, top to bottom, it was empty, I Coearly didn't live there. Needed windows and got quotes off local installers but for fun I also thought I'd get a sky high quote from a national chain with an annoying ad.
Salesman turns up to what is obviously a building project. Chaps fixing a new roof, plumbers installing radiators, joiner sawing away...l hive of activity.
When I booked the salesman, they asked two odd questions. Would my wife be there? Did I have a mortgage? My answer was No, why should she be there and none of your business.
So back to the salesman. I welcomed him, told him to wander round, measure up and come and have a chat when he'd finished as I was busy shifting stuff helping out the builders.
He seemed upset telling me this was not how it worked, that he wanted my wife there. The whole process would taie 3 hours. He wanted to come back when my wife was available. I got a bit annoyed telling him it was my house and (lying) that I was the governor and no woman tells me what do do with my house adding what if I was single, divorced a 40 year old virgin Gay or a catholic priest? None of those categories would involve a Mrs.
He still want happy. I told him it was obvious I meant business, just look at the cash I was spending in the place and that if his price was right his firm would get the gig.
More fannying around before he left without giving a price.
The local lad who came round last, the best of 4 quotes did me proud even insisting in buying me Chinese food for lunch when he and his mate went off for take aways.
For months I got calls from the big firm. Could we come back and quote? Will "your good lady" be there?
In the end I got this really aggressive bloke on. A senior manager. Told him to fk off and to delete my number from his records.
Salesman turns up to what is obviously a building project. Chaps fixing a new roof, plumbers installing radiators, joiner sawing away...l hive of activity.
When I booked the salesman, they asked two odd questions. Would my wife be there? Did I have a mortgage? My answer was No, why should she be there and none of your business.
So back to the salesman. I welcomed him, told him to wander round, measure up and come and have a chat when he'd finished as I was busy shifting stuff helping out the builders.
He seemed upset telling me this was not how it worked, that he wanted my wife there. The whole process would taie 3 hours. He wanted to come back when my wife was available. I got a bit annoyed telling him it was my house and (lying) that I was the governor and no woman tells me what do do with my house adding what if I was single, divorced a 40 year old virgin Gay or a catholic priest? None of those categories would involve a Mrs.
He still want happy. I told him it was obvious I meant business, just look at the cash I was spending in the place and that if his price was right his firm would get the gig.
More fannying around before he left without giving a price.
The local lad who came round last, the best of 4 quotes did me proud even insisting in buying me Chinese food for lunch when he and his mate went off for take aways.
For months I got calls from the big firm. Could we come back and quote? Will "your good lady" be there?
In the end I got this really aggressive bloke on. A senior manager. Told him to f
k off and to delete my number from his records. wildcat45 said:
I was renovating a property, top to bottom, it was empty, I Coearly didn't live there. Needed windows and got quotes off local installers but for fun I also thought I'd get a sky high quote from a national chain with an annoying ad.
Salesman turns up to what is obviously a building project. Chaps fixing a new roof, plumbers installing radiators, joiner sawing away...l hive of activity.
When I booked the salesman, they asked two odd questions. Would my wife be there? Did I have a mortgage? My answer was No, why should she be there and none of your business.
So back to the salesman. I welcomed him, told him to wander round, measure up and come and have a chat when he'd finished as I was busy shifting stuff helping out the builders.
He seemed upset telling me this was not how it worked, that he wanted my wife there. The whole process would taie 3 hours. He wanted to come back when my wife was available. I got a bit annoyed telling him it was my house and (lying) that I was the governor and no woman tells me what do do with my house adding what if I was single, divorced a 40 year old virgin Gay or a catholic priest? None of those categories would involve a Mrs.
He still want happy. I told him it was obvious I meant business, just look at the cash I was spending in the place and that if his price was right his firm would get the gig.
More fannying around before he left without giving a price.
The local lad who came round last, the best of 4 quotes did me proud even insisting in buying me Chinese food for lunch when he and his mate went off for take aways.
For months I got calls from the big firm. Could we come back and quote? Will "your good lady" be there?
In the end I got this really aggressive bloke on. A senior manager. Told him to fk off and to delete my number from his records.
Is your wife really fit?Salesman turns up to what is obviously a building project. Chaps fixing a new roof, plumbers installing radiators, joiner sawing away...l hive of activity.
When I booked the salesman, they asked two odd questions. Would my wife be there? Did I have a mortgage? My answer was No, why should she be there and none of your business.
So back to the salesman. I welcomed him, told him to wander round, measure up and come and have a chat when he'd finished as I was busy shifting stuff helping out the builders.
He seemed upset telling me this was not how it worked, that he wanted my wife there. The whole process would taie 3 hours. He wanted to come back when my wife was available. I got a bit annoyed telling him it was my house and (lying) that I was the governor and no woman tells me what do do with my house adding what if I was single, divorced a 40 year old virgin Gay or a catholic priest? None of those categories would involve a Mrs.
He still want happy. I told him it was obvious I meant business, just look at the cash I was spending in the place and that if his price was right his firm would get the gig.
More fannying around before he left without giving a price.
The local lad who came round last, the best of 4 quotes did me proud even insisting in buying me Chinese food for lunch when he and his mate went off for take aways.
For months I got calls from the big firm. Could we come back and quote? Will "your good lady" be there?
In the end I got this really aggressive bloke on. A senior manager. Told him to f
k off and to delete my number from his records. slippery said:
It's a very tough job, very few can stick it out, but those who can and do it well are richly rewarded. I would regularly work over 12 hours a day, 6 or 7 days a week, plus bank holidays. To give you an idea of attrition rates, when we did the sums one year, we started with 120 sales people and took around 700 new ones on during the course of a year, to end up with 122. Most last less than a month. I worked my way over around 15 years from Sales Agent, to Sales Manager, to Regional Sales Manager, to Divisional Sales Manager, to Sales Director.
I don't know you, so please don't take offence, but I have to say bearing mind your career that's a great user name you have.
A friend of mine had Everest round to quote for new windows throughout his first house which he had just bought.
The salesman arrived and told him that his front door was 'flimsy and insecure' despite it having been replaced more recently than the windows and being perfectly sound. He also told him that he could simply pop the glass out of his windows by putting a screwdriver in each of the drain holes.
My friend asked about a discounted upgrade to triple glazing which they were touting on their website at the time but was told that this wasn't necessary as it wasn't windy enough on his street. A bit bizarre as he lives at the top of the highest hill in a coastal town and all of us have performed a 45 degree walk up his street in the face of a gale on numerous occasions. That of course is not to mention the fact that the wind has bks-all to do with the necessity or otherwise of triple glazing.
Eventually he quoted a price of about £15k which was reduced through the usual 'phone the manager, one time only offer' charade to £8k. He was shown the (flimsy) door and a local firm got the job for about half his lowest price. Apparently he kept phoning up for weeks despite being told that an order had been given to the other firm.
The salesman arrived and told him that his front door was 'flimsy and insecure' despite it having been replaced more recently than the windows and being perfectly sound. He also told him that he could simply pop the glass out of his windows by putting a screwdriver in each of the drain holes.
My friend asked about a discounted upgrade to triple glazing which they were touting on their website at the time but was told that this wasn't necessary as it wasn't windy enough on his street. A bit bizarre as he lives at the top of the highest hill in a coastal town and all of us have performed a 45 degree walk up his street in the face of a gale on numerous occasions. That of course is not to mention the fact that the wind has b
ks-all to do with the necessity or otherwise of triple glazing.Eventually he quoted a price of about £15k which was reduced through the usual 'phone the manager, one time only offer' charade to £8k. He was shown the (flimsy) door and a local firm got the job for about half his lowest price. Apparently he kept phoning up for weeks despite being told that an order had been given to the other firm.
I've been quoted over £22K by the usual big names
Local company did it for £3K ( Fensa guaranteed too )
UPVC extrusion is dirt cheap.
UPVC frames are dirt cheap.
Double glazing is dirt cheap.
Find a local company who make the stuff. Ask them for a local fitter to come around a give a quote.
Keep the rest of the £20K+ in your bank account.
Local company did it for £3K ( Fensa guaranteed too )
UPVC extrusion is dirt cheap.
UPVC frames are dirt cheap.
Double glazing is dirt cheap.
Find a local company who make the stuff. Ask them for a local fitter to come around a give a quote.
Keep the rest of the £20K+ in your bank account.
st like this annoys me, it really should be made illegal. Its nothing more than preying on the stupid or weak. It would be easy to do... ban companies from starting at £x then dropping in increments to 25% of your starting price until you finally get a sale. Just let them quote then have some wiggle room for negotiation and thats it. Scamming scumbags.
t like this annoys me, it really should be made illegal. Its nothing more than preying on the stupid or weak. It would be easy to do... ban companies from starting at £x then dropping in increments to 25% of your starting price until you finally get a sale. Just let them quote then have some wiggle room for negotiation and thats it. Scamming scumbags.All the work done on my house, be it repairs, extension, bathrooms or windows is done the same way.
Go to my local pub, ask who's the best for.....whatever. Generally its a foreigner and as such comes with 0 guarantee, apart from them knowing I will be drinking there the next time someone comes in asking for...whatever. Although I suppose this only works in a working mans area where all the local builders etc. are settling down to their 1st pint at 2-3pm
Go to my local pub, ask who's the best for.....whatever. Generally its a foreigner and as such comes with 0 guarantee, apart from them knowing I will be drinking there the next time someone comes in asking for...whatever. Although I suppose this only works in a working mans area where all the local builders etc. are settling down to their 1st pint at 2-3pm
Thomas Sanderson blinds - an hour with their guy gave us a price of £11k for a full set of conservatory blinds (roof and windows).
This got a no thanks and goodbye. He made "the call" and it came down to £9k.
Eventually he left, and we had a call from his boss 4 days later dropping it down to £2.5k. Ridiculous.
This got a no thanks and goodbye. He made "the call" and it came down to £9k.
Eventually he left, and we had a call from his boss 4 days later dropping it down to £2.5k. Ridiculous.
CoolHands said:
I've got one coming from a local company wed morning as it happens. To replace all original wooden sash windows with upvc 
I shall report back. An independent company, but they are Ealing based so possibly pricey. My finger in the air figure is 3 grand, so lets see.
here's the front windows, a 'venetian box' (the middle flat):
BOGOF I shall report back. An independent company, but they are Ealing based so possibly pricey. My finger in the air figure is 3 grand, so lets see.here's the front windows, a 'venetian box' (the middle flat):
Edited by CoolHands on Monday 17th February 23:50
cobra kid said:
Thomas Sanderson blinds - an hour with their guy gave us a price of £11k for a full set of conservatory blinds (roof and windows).
This got a no thanks and goodbye. He made "the call" and it came down to £9k.
Eventually he left, and we had a call from his boss 4 days later dropping it down to £2.5k. Ridiculous.
It just seems morally unjustifiable to allow these scumbags to start with one price and then drop it by 80%. I wonder how many people sign up at, or close to, the original asking price ?This got a no thanks and goodbye. He made "the call" and it came down to £9k.
Eventually he left, and we had a call from his boss 4 days later dropping it down to £2.5k. Ridiculous.
The whole sales concept of "topping and dropping" has been going on for so long, I'm astonished that direct-sales companies are still using it. Presumably there are still loads of mugs out there.
The whole world and his dog knows about double-glazing salesmen - their reputation precedes them. So why continue with the charade? It's really old hat now.
As a by-the-by, I worked for some time for one of the worst offenders for these selling practices, and woe betide you if you didn't do it their way. Any other method "didn't work, trust us". Well I left them to work for a small privately-owned firm with a sound reputation, and used my own sales techniques of honesty and straight dealing, and "leaving a price" for them to consider. It worked far better. They've got their collective heads in the sand - those techniques are soooooo 1980s.
The whole world and his dog knows about double-glazing salesmen - their reputation precedes them. So why continue with the charade? It's really old hat now.
As a by-the-by, I worked for some time for one of the worst offenders for these selling practices, and woe betide you if you didn't do it their way. Any other method "didn't work, trust us". Well I left them to work for a small privately-owned firm with a sound reputation, and used my own sales techniques of honesty and straight dealing, and "leaving a price" for them to consider. It worked far better. They've got their collective heads in the sand - those techniques are soooooo 1980s.
We also had one, who was just doing it as a stop gap before he went back abroad. He was happy with the basic salary.
He just told us that he would quote, then make "the call", which would drop the price, then up to us what we wanted to do. He couldn't care less as long as he go to the bit where he phoned his manager.
He just told us that he would quote, then make "the call", which would drop the price, then up to us what we wanted to do. He couldn't care less as long as he go to the bit where he phoned his manager.
Reminds me of an old friend.
We had similar houses. Typical 3 bed terraces. He had the front door done. He then had the front done. 18 months down the line the glazing Co rang him to advise him they were soon to discontinue the windows he had and would he like the back done now so they matched. He signed up. The whole lot was on finance. He said every time they came round it was a 3-4 hour process so obviously was getting the whole hard sell process.
I had mine done but minus the front and back doors. 30 mins max as I told salesman no BS and give me just one price, your best. I paid a shade over £2K.
My mate paid a shade over £10K and it wasn't one of the biggies but was a well known name. So obviously the hard sell does work and nets salesman and his boss big commission.
We had similar houses. Typical 3 bed terraces. He had the front door done. He then had the front done. 18 months down the line the glazing Co rang him to advise him they were soon to discontinue the windows he had and would he like the back done now so they matched. He signed up. The whole lot was on finance. He said every time they came round it was a 3-4 hour process so obviously was getting the whole hard sell process.
I had mine done but minus the front and back doors. 30 mins max as I told salesman no BS and give me just one price, your best. I paid a shade over £2K.
My mate paid a shade over £10K and it wasn't one of the biggies but was a well known name. So obviously the hard sell does work and nets salesman and his boss big commission.
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