Does anyone believe supernatural rubbish?
Discussion
Here’s one for you all:
Many years ago… Nice hot summer day, two lovers return to the mother’s house of one of them. Standing at the kitchen counter side-by-side both making a sandwich for themselves. Suddenly the male ‘experiences’ something that last just a few seconds. They both look down at the floor; the female takes a few steps backward and then stares incredulously at the male with a look that said ‘what just happened?’ Then they both instinctively ran to the house door to look outside to see if they could find something.
Back in the kitchen, the male say’s what did you see? She said “that was a small black dog running around our feet” the male then say’s “what did it do?” she said “it did a rapid figure of 8 around our feet and then scooted back out the door” he says tell me more; she says at first I just felt it brushing against my ankles, it was only when I looked down I saw not much more than a blur of black fur, but it was best described as a small black high-speed Yorkie.
The male doesn’t (still doesn’t) believe in all the hocus pocus stuff, which is why he asked his companion to describe things first.
But… what she described is 1000,000% what the male also witnessed/experienced.
Spooky doesn’t begin to describe it; but can someone, somehow explain it?
Many years ago… Nice hot summer day, two lovers return to the mother’s house of one of them. Standing at the kitchen counter side-by-side both making a sandwich for themselves. Suddenly the male ‘experiences’ something that last just a few seconds. They both look down at the floor; the female takes a few steps backward and then stares incredulously at the male with a look that said ‘what just happened?’ Then they both instinctively ran to the house door to look outside to see if they could find something.
Back in the kitchen, the male say’s what did you see? She said “that was a small black dog running around our feet” the male then say’s “what did it do?” she said “it did a rapid figure of 8 around our feet and then scooted back out the door” he says tell me more; she says at first I just felt it brushing against my ankles, it was only when I looked down I saw not much more than a blur of black fur, but it was best described as a small black high-speed Yorkie.
The male doesn’t (still doesn’t) believe in all the hocus pocus stuff, which is why he asked his companion to describe things first.
But… what she described is 1000,000% what the male also witnessed/experienced.
Spooky doesn’t begin to describe it; but can someone, somehow explain it?
Edited by Police State on Friday 12th May 11:24
TwigtheWonderkid said:
In general terms, the sheer lack of critical thinking skills in the world today is utterly depressing.
We have the ability to build space stations, yet billions of people just believe utter tripe without a shred of evidence to back it up. Gods, ghosts, sound storing tunnels, horoscopes, psychics, feng sui, homeopathy, the list of drivel people routinely swallow seems endless.
I think that people believing crap that just isn't true is the biggest threat to humanity that we face.
The problem is that if there is a majority, or significant minority, that want to believe in or do stupid things, there is little or nothing the rest of us can do about it. These nuts are trapped in self confirming groups. Groups that have no need of scientists or experts. They believe and no amount of sanity can shake belief.We have the ability to build space stations, yet billions of people just believe utter tripe without a shred of evidence to back it up. Gods, ghosts, sound storing tunnels, horoscopes, psychics, feng sui, homeopathy, the list of drivel people routinely swallow seems endless.
I think that people believing crap that just isn't true is the biggest threat to humanity that we face.
Zetec-S said:
This is just the kind of mind numbing nonsense I was referring to. How can grown ups buy into this?
king s
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Zetec-S said:
This is just the kind of mind numbing nonsense I was referring to. How can grown ups buy into this?TwigtheWonderkid said:
In general terms, the sheer lack of critical thinking skills in the world today is utterly depressing.
We have the ability to build space stations, yet billions of people just believe utter tripe without a shred of evidence to back it up. Gods, ghosts, sound storing tunnels, horoscopes, psychics, feng sui, homeopathy, the list of drivel people routinely swallow seems endless.
I think that people believing crap that just isn't true is the biggest threat to humanity that we face.
Actually, we use pretty simple science and technology to build space stations, etc. I believe (and we would have to ask Eric about this We have the ability to build space stations, yet billions of people just believe utter tripe without a shred of evidence to back it up. Gods, ghosts, sound storing tunnels, horoscopes, psychics, feng sui, homeopathy, the list of drivel people routinely swallow seems endless.
I think that people believing crap that just isn't true is the biggest threat to humanity that we face.
) that the calculations that govern their insertion into orbit are Newtonian physics, which has since been superceded by Einsteinian relativity and by quantum mechanics as a way of understanding the universe on a broader scale. 'Local' science is logical, I agree, but there is little of what most would call logic left in quantum mechanics telling us things can be in different places at the same time. What about the scientists who have proposed multiple parallel universes? Are they delusional?The anthropic cosmological principle reminds us that all we know about the universe around us is that which we are equipped to know by the limitations of our senses and our minds. We have no clue as to anything that may exist but is outside of our range of cognition. Philosophers for two and a half thousand years have been trying to understand our relationship with the world of reality. Try reading some Plato, Descartes, Spinoza or
Kant. It is even far from settled what is the nature of knowledge itself, and how logic works.
On a more homely level, don't get too carried away either with the sanctity of scientists - they are mere humans too. Having been involved in scientific research, and having published albeit in a limited field, I can tell you science is as concerned with career building, deception, fads, fashions and egos as any other branch of human activity.
That is why I suggested above that unquestioning belief in science and scientists is akin to religious belief. Believe me, we don't know 5hit about very much at all, outside of a very local level, and if science taught me anything it is to always keep a very open mind.
Front bottom said:
I love how the sceptics have to dissect every little detail into a hundred pieces.
You must have major time on your hands.
Relax a bit.
Because that's what science does, dissects any evidence to the minutiae to discover the cause. It's what logical people do.You must have major time on your hands.
Relax a bit.
In this case, the 'evidence' doesn't point to the cause being anything supernatural, however, since you are not prepared to accept any of the theories put to you or able provide any further evidence that will assist in discovering the real cause, then the argument will continue to remain at a stalemate.
Roofless Toothless said:
What about the scientists who have proposed multiple parallel universes? Are they delusional?
Have any scientists actually said "it's definitely multiple parallel universes"? Proposing an idea for investigation is not the same as ignoring a mountain of evidence that contradicts your idea, sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "you don't know, I was there".If I scientist proposes a hypothesis, but others come forward to say "I think this is a much better explanation, and here's some evidence to back up my alternative idea", and it is a much better explanation, not many scientists just ignore it and stick to their flawed conclusion.
The reason science isn't like religion is because if humankind was struck by a mysterious virus that wiped out all our knowledge, and we had to start again from scratch, in 10K years we would still have religion, but it would be an entirely different set of gods and beliefs to the ones we have now. In 10K years we would also have made scientific discoveries, and they would be identical to what we have now. the maths would be the same,the physics would be the same, the chemistry and biology would be the same.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
I think that people believing crap that just isn't true is the biggest threat to humanity that we face.
I think the biggest threat to humanity is when people hold on to their world view so preciously that people with an alternative view are a threat.The number of people who have a religious like fervour for science is a concern for me.
Nanook said:
I've never met anyone with a 'religious like fervour for science'
Can you explain what you mean by this?
You know, those people who go door-to-door on Sundays telling you about Newtonian physics being the only true way and how if you don't believe in them then you'll be turned into Bose-Einstein condensate when you die. Those people.Can you explain what you mean by this?
Nanook said:
I've never met anyone with a 'religious like fervour for science'
Can you explain what you mean by this?
Sure. I mean people who, often, have had nothing to do with science since they left school who absolutely believe that science is the only thing which can give us answers about the world.Can you explain what you mean by this?
Their faith in science is so strong that they simply do not understand why people believe in anything else, or look elsewhere for answers.
The use of 'logic' usually comes hot on the heels of this.
When the discussion gets to the point that 'Science will have an answer' I find they might as well be saying 'God does have a plan'
Rawwr said:
Nanook said:
I've never met anyone with a 'religious like fervour for science'
Can you explain what you mean by this?
You know, those people who go door-to-door on Sundays telling you about Newtonian physics being the only true way and how if you don't believe in them then you'll be turned into Bose-Einstein condensate when you die. Those people.Can you explain what you mean by this?
Failing that we burn 'scientists' at the stake.
Rawwr said:
Nanook said:
I've never met anyone with a 'religious like fervour for science'
Can you explain what you mean by this?
You know, those people who go door-to-door on Sundays telling you about Newtonian physics being the only true way and how if you don't believe in them then you'll be turned into Bose-Einstein condensate when you die. Those people.Can you explain what you mean by this?
The same thing we saw during Brexit, the recent US election and BBC reporting.
A narrow minded condescending attitude, that with hindsight is invariably incorrect, lacking credence due to an inability to really understand what they have been told and the arrogance that the knowledge they have is definitive, can never be challenged and will never be rewritten.
Almost exactly the same as the pious from previous centuries.
Rawwr said:
Nanook said:
I've never met anyone with a 'religious like fervour for science'
Can you explain what you mean by this?
You know, those people who go door-to-door on Sundays telling you about Newtonian physics being the only true way and how if you don't believe in them then you'll be turned into Bose-Einstein condensate when you die. Those people.Can you explain what you mean by this?
gregs656 said:
Nanook said:
I've never met anyone with a 'religious like fervour for science'
Can you explain what you mean by this?
Sure. I mean people who, often, have had nothing to do with science since they left school who absolutely believe that science is the only thing which can give us answers about the world.Can you explain what you mean by this?
Their faith in science is so strong that they simply do not understand why people believe in anything else, or look elsewhere for answers.
The use of 'logic' usually comes hot on the heels of this.
When the discussion gets to the point that 'Science will have an answer' I find they might as well be saying 'God does have a plan'
Efbe said:
A narrow minded condescending attitude, that with hindsight is invariably incorrect, lacking credence due to an inability to really understand what they have been told and the arrogance that the knowledge they have is definitive, can never be challenged and will never be rewritten.
This could be used to describe religion, mediums, faith healers, pretty much anything 'supernatural'...
Efbe said:
No, it's done in a patronising 'I am better than you because I know everything' middle class kind of way.
The same thing we saw during Brexit, the recent US election and BBC reporting.
A narrow minded condescending attitude, that with hindsight is invariably incorrect, lacking credence due to an inability to really understand what they have been told and the arrogance that the knowledge they have is definitive, can never be challenged and will never be rewritten.
Almost exactly the same as the pious from previous centuries.
In black and white terms of religion vs science (which is mildly preposterous, anyway), my view is that religion in the vast majority of cases states; "This is the way." whereas science states; "This may be the way and this is why..."The same thing we saw during Brexit, the recent US election and BBC reporting.
A narrow minded condescending attitude, that with hindsight is invariably incorrect, lacking credence due to an inability to really understand what they have been told and the arrogance that the knowledge they have is definitive, can never be challenged and will never be rewritten.
Almost exactly the same as the pious from previous centuries.
Those that truly understand scientific method know full well that it's not definitive, will always answer challenges and is frequently rewritten. The same cannot be said of devout religious belief, despite provision of evidence to the contrary.
Rawwr said:
Efbe said:
No, it's done in a patronising 'I am better than you because I know everything' middle class kind of way.
The same thing we saw during Brexit, the recent US election and BBC reporting.
A narrow minded condescending attitude, that with hindsight is invariably incorrect, lacking credence due to an inability to really understand what they have been told and the arrogance that the knowledge they have is definitive, can never be challenged and will never be rewritten.
Almost exactly the same as the pious from previous centuries.
In black and white terms of religion vs science (which is mildly preposterous, anyway), my view is that religion in the vast majority of cases states; "This is the way." whereas science states; "This may be the way and this is why..."The same thing we saw during Brexit, the recent US election and BBC reporting.
A narrow minded condescending attitude, that with hindsight is invariably incorrect, lacking credence due to an inability to really understand what they have been told and the arrogance that the knowledge they have is definitive, can never be challenged and will never be rewritten.
Almost exactly the same as the pious from previous centuries.
Those that truly understand scientific method know full well that it's not definitive, will always answer challenges and is frequently rewritten. The same cannot be said of devout religious belief, despite provision of evidence to the contrary.
Somone's faith being challenged is bad for them because there isnt another way you can argue things because you never had any way to back up the claims to start with.
Science loves to be proven wrong as it means something new had been discovered and we can move forward on that basis and further our understanding. Most scientists would probably love nothing more for the established big theories to be proven wrong because it would mean a huge discovery has been made.
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