What are your unpopular opinions?

What are your unpopular opinions?

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V8mate

45,899 posts

188 months

Friday 23rd February 2018
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captain_cynic said:
mattyn1 said:
Not unpopular with me - except maybe the top one - The Death Penalty
I'm opposed to the death penalty because it says more about the brutality of our society than it does for criminal justice.

And because it doesn't work.

China executes approx 2500 people each year, yet still has a lot of crime. If capital punishment worked, that number would be decreasing. Indonesia has the death penalty for drug smuggling, yet drugs are still smuggled into Indonesia. States in the US with capital punishment have more crime than states without it.

So basically, it's sole purpose is to make bloodthirsty people happy.

Beyond that... a terrorist is someone willing to die for an insane cause... you would like to help them become martyrs? Hell no, every year they spend in prison serves as a warning to the rest that you cant win, not even in death.
I'm not sure which side of the fence I'm on with regard to the death penalty, but I wonder, especially in the examples you give, whether you miss external factors in deciding whether it works or not?

In both the countries you mention, people are often desperately poor and desperately... desperate. So they are playing a different odds game than say you or I deciding whether to smuggle drugs or kill someone during an armed robbery, for example. Greater likelihood of the driver being greed in a more developed country?

The US experience, obviously, completely blows my argument out of the water. The Septics are a funny lot though hehe

IJB1959

2,139 posts

85 months

Friday 23rd February 2018
quotequote all
V8mate said:
captain_cynic said:
mattyn1 said:
Not unpopular with me - except maybe the top one - The Death Penalty
I'm opposed to the death penalty because it says more about the brutality of our society than it does for criminal justice.

And because it doesn't work.

China executes approx 2500 people each year, yet still has a lot of crime. If capital punishment worked, that number would be decreasing. Indonesia has the death penalty for drug smuggling, yet drugs are still smuggled into Indonesia. States in the US with capital punishment have more crime than states without it.

So basically, it's sole purpose is to make bloodthirsty people happy.

Beyond that... a terrorist is someone willing to die for an insane cause... you would like to help them become martyrs? Hell no, every year they spend in prison serves as a warning to the rest that you cant win, not even in death.
I'm not sure which side of the fence I'm on with regard to the death penalty, but I wonder, especially in the examples you give, whether you miss external factors in deciding whether it works or not?

In both the countries you mention, people are often desperately poor and desperately... desperate. So they are playing a different odds game than say you or I deciding whether to smuggle drugs or kill someone during an armed robbery, for example. Greater likelihood of the driver being greed in a more developed country?

The US experience, obviously, completely blows my argument out of the water. The Septics are a funny lot though hehe
Not sure if this is popular or unpopular in America.............

I can never understand the American gun law.

Why can an child of 14 (in some states) not be able to buy cigarettes, alcohol, or even drive a car, but can buy a handgun or rifle without parental consent? Also, why on earth does anyone want, and is allowed to freely buy, automatic weapons such as an M16? Surly a simple handgun would suffice in self defence (which is why ordinary people buy guns apparently) but instead buy something to potentially kill a small community in one go.
In response to the latest of many school shootings, they think that maybe solving the problem is having more guns by arming the teachers!
The NRA in America is a powerful pro-gun lobby, but surely the current lax gun laws must be unpopular with the American people?


Dr Jekyll

23,820 posts

260 months

Friday 23rd February 2018
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IJB1959 said:
Also, why on earth does anyone want, and is allowed to freely buy, automatic weapons such as an M16? Surly a simple handgun would suffice in self defence (which is why ordinary people buy guns apparently) but instead buy something to potentially kill a small community in one go.
They aren't allowed to buy fully automatic weapons.
Most people who buy guns buy them for target shooting or hunting, which is why they buy rifles. Only about 5% of US gun crime is committed with rifles, handguns are far more suited to criminality.

captain_cynic

11,876 posts

94 months

Friday 23rd February 2018
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V8mate said:
I'm not sure which side of the fence I'm on with regard to the death penalty, but I wonder, especially in the examples you give, whether you miss external factors in deciding whether it works or not?

In both the countries you mention, people are often desperately poor and desperately... desperate. So they are playing a different odds game than say you or I deciding whether to smuggle drugs or kill someone during an armed robbery, for example. Greater likelihood of the driver being greed in a more developed country?

The US experience, obviously, completely blows my argument out of the water. The Septics are a funny lot though hehe
Happy for you to point out what these factors might be, but I honestly think that capital punishment has no baring on crime rates. Crime in similar conditions will be just as bad, if not worse in countries with capital punishment compared to those without. Worse, working on the logic that if you're going to get death for drug smuggling, you might as well turn it into a murder and reduce your chances of being caught or identified.

The whole idea of capital punishment is that you make people too afraid of the punishment to commit the crime and I think this is an abject failure.

Crime is reduced by removing the impetus for it. As you've pointed out, poverty is a huge factor which is why we see less petty crime in the worst parts of the UK than the best parts of Colombia or Thailand.

Dr Jekyll

23,820 posts

260 months

Friday 23rd February 2018
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captain_cynic said:
The whole idea of capital punishment is that you make people too afraid of the punishment to commit the crime and I think this is an abject failure.
It's also supposed to reduce reoffending of course.

IJB1959

2,139 posts

85 months

Friday 23rd February 2018
quotequote all
Dr Jekyll said:
IJB1959 said:
Also, why on earth does anyone want, and is allowed to freely buy, automatic weapons such as an M16? Surly a simple handgun would suffice in self defence (which is why ordinary people buy guns apparently) but instead buy something to potentially kill a small community in one go.
They aren't allowed to buy fully automatic weapons.
Most people who buy guns buy them for target shooting or hunting, which is why they buy rifles. Only about 5% of US gun crime is committed with rifles, handguns are far more suited to criminality.
They are legal, but more restricted.........no more difficult to obtain than a UK shotgun licence.

Machine Guns Are Legal: A Practical Guide to Full Auto - The Firearm Blog
Here is what it takes to own a weapon capable of full auto
Pay a tax of $200, which in 1934 was worth over $3,500
Fill out a lengthy application to register your gun with the federal government
Submit photographs
Submit passport photos
Get your chief law enforcement official to sign your application
Wait for the results of your background check to come back
An assault rifle is fed by a box magazine, uses an intermediate round and is capable of full auto and /or burst fire as well as semi automatic so they are treated like machine guns. If you have an AK or AR that is semiauto only it is not an assault rifle.

captain_cynic

11,876 posts

94 months

Friday 23rd February 2018
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Dr Jekyll said:
It's also supposed to reduce reoffending of course.
Of course, but wouldn't life imprisonment have the same effect?

I'm struggling to think of a penalty in the US (so relatively sane laws) that would get death in Texas but not get life without parole in California.

OTOH, what happens if they're innocent and were accidentally judged guilty? If they're in for life they can be released, if they've been given lethal injection... This is why death row inmates hang around for years in the US and are more expensive than imprisoning them for life.

I'm thinking of the infamous Lindsey Chamberlain case in Australia (erm... a dingo ate my baby). She was effectively given trial by media and convicted of killing her own daughter based on the evidence that Dingos did not eat human children. Years later human child bones were found in a dingo den and Chamberlain was released.

Edited by captain_cynic on Friday 23 February 11:10

singlecoil

33,315 posts

245 months

Friday 23rd February 2018
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captain_cynic said:
Dr Jekyll said:
It's also supposed to reduce reoffending of course.
Of course, but wouldn't life imprisonment have the same effect...
Life imprisonment is a lot more expensive though.

Antony Moxey

8,016 posts

218 months

Friday 23rd February 2018
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I like shopping with my wife, whether it be for food, clothes, Christmas presents, stuff that I want to buy, stuff that she wants to buy, whatever. I hate online shopping and will do whatever I can to avoid it.

fatboy18

18,930 posts

210 months

Friday 23rd February 2018
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Well we have a problem with overcrowding in out prisons.
I used to be dumb enough to think that when someone was given a life sentence it actually meant Life!
Sadly this is far from the truth.

After the westminster bridge terrorist attack by these radical scumbags and the lives they took. Life imprisonment simply won't cut it in my book.
They would not be martyrs in my book, just dead scumbags.

Then we have the Pedo and murder problem.
Case comes to mind of James Bulger this is pure evil and the killers have gone on to reoffend in other ways despite being paroled and given name changes.

How must the Victims families feel?

I'm not looking for a mob to view a public hanging, but I do believe people tried and convicted of these type of crimes could be put on a life sentence and then face lethal injection after several years. In that several years other crimes may come to light that said persons may have committed and even the possibility of other evidence.

Ian Huntley, there's another name!

The bottom line being they will never end up back in the public domain.

There are just far too many soft people out there now that are willing to give many criminals a second chance, and a 3rd and a 4th.




phil1979

3,540 posts

214 months

Friday 23rd February 2018
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I like Piers Morgan

singlecoil

33,315 posts

245 months

Friday 23rd February 2018
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Antony Moxey said:
I like shopping with my wife, whether it be for food, clothes, Christmas presents, stuff that I want to buy, stuff that she wants to buy, whatever. I hate online shopping and will do whatever I can to avoid it.
Me too! Just got back from Waitrose where we know several of the staff by name.

paulguitar

23,108 posts

112 months

Friday 23rd February 2018
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phil1979 said:
I like Piers Morgan
redcard

Countdown

39,690 posts

195 months

Friday 23rd February 2018
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We need more Traffic Police.

Traffic Police should be allowed to taser people for driving like dicks.

SystemParanoia

14,343 posts

197 months

Friday 23rd February 2018
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That employees should be able to easily see how much their co-workers earn

captain_cynic

11,876 posts

94 months

Friday 23rd February 2018
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Antony Moxey said:
I like shopping with my wife, whether it be for food, clothes, Christmas presents, stuff that I want to buy, stuff that she wants to buy, whatever. I hate online shopping and will do whatever I can to avoid it.
I dont mind going to shops... I hat dealing with other people.

However to find most of what I want I end up having to shop online because stores have very limited stock and often dont have the thing I need.

Shakermaker

11,317 posts

99 months

Friday 23rd February 2018
quotequote all
singlecoil said:
captain_cynic said:
Dr Jekyll said:
It's also supposed to reduce reoffending of course.
Of course, but wouldn't life imprisonment have the same effect...
Life imprisonment is a lot more expensive though.
I wouldn't think it was a "lot" more expensive.

With death sentences, on top of the cost of housing the prisoner for probably 10 years, you have to factor in the huge cost of all the appeals processes that are gone through with many of them, over all the years, to overturn their death sentence. Life imprisonment doesn't quite carry that same impetus and urgency for all those people fighting for amnesty for the incarcerated,

Blown2CV

28,698 posts

202 months

Friday 23rd February 2018
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Countdown said:
We need more Traffic Police.

Traffic Police should be allowed to taser people for driving like dicks.
i'd far rather have more traffic police than 'smart' motorways

Blown2CV

28,698 posts

202 months

Friday 23rd February 2018
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SystemParanoia said:
That employees should be able to easily see how much their co-workers earn
people that earn less than their colleagues always think that.

StevieBee

12,795 posts

254 months

Friday 23rd February 2018
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fatboy18 said:
Bring back the Death Penalty, for Terrorists that have caused multiple killings
The issue here is that the perpetrators of such acts do not view death in the same way others do.

Those that fail to take their own lives or allow it to be taken during the course of their actions are often ostracised from those who encourage the act so facilitating this and denying them martyrdom is, to them, a far greater punishment.

But then the issue is that there exists no deterrent which underlines the problems of solving the bigger problem.
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