Flat Earthers- what to do with em
Discussion
Eric Mc said:
Why bother trying to understand what is arrant nonsense. Make your "brain hurt" learning about the reality rather than trying to understand the musing of idiots.
I've no intention of arguing with them or understanding them it's just a strange alternate reality, hence me starting this thread as unfortunately one of my friends just seems to have been dragged into the nonsense! I leave him to it lol!scorp said:
thebraketester said:
Just play this clip of the sun and moon a few times..... see if you can spot something. What is happening to the shape of light that the sun is casting on the 'flat' earth?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0xClWgidZU&fe...
Looks like the shape you would get when you illuminate a sphere and then polar project it. With half the "plane" some how in shadow with a direct line of sight to the sun.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0xClWgidZU&fe...
Funny they show a video of a sunset with the sun dropping below the horizon after that, the sun should always be a higher angle than the horizon if the ground was a flat plane.
ugh.
200Plus Club said:
Eric Mc said:
Why bother trying to understand what is arrant nonsense. Make your "brain hurt" learning about the reality rather than trying to understand the musing of idiots.
I've no intention of arguing with them or understanding them it's just a strange alternate reality, hence me starting this thread as unfortunately one of my friends just seems to have been dragged into the nonsense! I leave him to it lol!I've often wondered about the 'reasoning' behind these ideas.
One thing that comes to mind is that while we, as a species, advance our collective understanding and knowledge, the actual understanding is held by an increasingly small number of scientists and specialists. Those individuals are becoming more and more remote from the general population (in terms of what each is capable of understanding about their chosen specific area), and the ability to explain these advanced concepts becomes harder to the point of impossible.
We all understand that water is a liquid and that it boils at 100 deg c.
Fewer understand about the latent heat of evaporation and how that works, along with entropy and other aspects of thermodynamics, but it wouldn't be impossible to explain the general concept to someone who doesn't know about it and saying "it requires energy to convert from a liquid to a gas" is an entirely 'plausible' explanation to a lay-person.
Take it to the start of quantum physics, and try explaining the double slit experiment to someone, demonstrating that electrons act both as waves and particles, but change how they behave when they are observed. It doesn't take an enormous leap to understand someone thinking that the experiment must be fake as it's not 'plausible' within the limits of their background understanding and knowledge. This is where science is could start being referred to as 'faith' by some I think.
I think the more and more advanced we get, the greater the knowledge 'disconnect' we'll see, and more and more often we'll encounter the attitude of "I don't understand how it works, therefore it can't work that way"
One thing that comes to mind is that while we, as a species, advance our collective understanding and knowledge, the actual understanding is held by an increasingly small number of scientists and specialists. Those individuals are becoming more and more remote from the general population (in terms of what each is capable of understanding about their chosen specific area), and the ability to explain these advanced concepts becomes harder to the point of impossible.
We all understand that water is a liquid and that it boils at 100 deg c.
Fewer understand about the latent heat of evaporation and how that works, along with entropy and other aspects of thermodynamics, but it wouldn't be impossible to explain the general concept to someone who doesn't know about it and saying "it requires energy to convert from a liquid to a gas" is an entirely 'plausible' explanation to a lay-person.
Take it to the start of quantum physics, and try explaining the double slit experiment to someone, demonstrating that electrons act both as waves and particles, but change how they behave when they are observed. It doesn't take an enormous leap to understand someone thinking that the experiment must be fake as it's not 'plausible' within the limits of their background understanding and knowledge. This is where science is could start being referred to as 'faith' by some I think.
I think the more and more advanced we get, the greater the knowledge 'disconnect' we'll see, and more and more often we'll encounter the attitude of "I don't understand how it works, therefore it can't work that way"
Edited by feef on Tuesday 7th August 10:11
Eric Mc said:
There is no harm in explaining the real science and engineering behind these matters. If they refuse to accept the truth - then there is not much you can do about it. It is a genuinely sad state of affairs and a real indictment on education standards and the power of fools to be sucked into nonsensical beliefs.
The crazy thing is he's quite clearly not thick, he can build and run his own race engines and runs his own business very successfully. He's obviously got an enquiring mind but has taken it to the next level so to speak and become entangled in the "conspiracy" aspects.200Plus Club said:
Eric Mc said:
There is no harm in explaining the real science and engineering behind these matters. If they refuse to accept the truth - then there is not much you can do about it. It is a genuinely sad state of affairs and a real indictment on education standards and the power of fools to be sucked into nonsensical beliefs.
The crazy thing is he's quite clearly not thick, he can build and run his own race engines and runs his own business very successfully. He's obviously got an enquiring mind but has taken it to the next level so to speak and become entangled in the "conspiracy" aspects.
t to the hard-of-thinking actually believe it themselves.Sure, the gullible swallow it hook, line and sinker. T'was ever thus.
But what about the people up the chain? Are they just in it for the cash, having found a nice lucrative product and market niche?
(See also: US TV pay-per-
TooMany2cvs said:
200Plus Club said:
Eric Mc said:
There is no harm in explaining the real science and engineering behind these matters. If they refuse to accept the truth - then there is not much you can do about it. It is a genuinely sad state of affairs and a real indictment on education standards and the power of fools to be sucked into nonsensical beliefs.
The crazy thing is he's quite clearly not thick, he can build and run his own race engines and runs his own business very successfully. He's obviously got an enquiring mind but has taken it to the next level so to speak and become entangled in the "conspiracy" aspects.t to the hard-of-thinking actually believe it themselves.Sure, the gullible swallow it hook, line and sinker. T'was ever thus.
But what about the people up the chain? Are they just in it for the cash, having found a nice lucrative product and market niche?
(See also: US TV pay-per-
There is no doubt that there will always be charlatans and exploiters who will cash in on people who are willing to believe crazy things. I doubt if all of these exploiters actually believe the ste they are spouting. Indeed, con-men are usually very clever and manipulative and quite astute. There is nothing new in any of this. Erich Von Daniken and Charles Berlitz were at it in the 1970s - and became very wealthy as a result.
te they are spouting. Indeed, con-men are usually very clever and manipulative and quite astute. There is nothing new in any of this. Erich Von Daniken and Charles Berlitz were at it in the 1970s - and became very wealthy as a result.feef said:
I've often wondered about the 'reasoning' behind these ideas.
One thing that comes to mind is that while we, as a species, advance our collective understanding and knowledge, the actual understanding is held by an increasingly small number of scientists and specialists. Those individuals are becoming more and more remote from the general population (in terms of what each is capable of understanding about their chosen specific area), and the ability to explain these advanced concepts becomes harder to the point of impossible.
We all understand that water is a liquid and that it boils at 100 deg c.
Fewer understand about the latent heat of evaporation and how that works, along with entropy and other aspects of thermodynamics, but it wouldn't be impossible to explain the general concept to someone who doesn't know about it and saying "it requires energy to convert from a liquid to a gas" is an entirely 'plausible' explanation to a lay-person.
Take it to the start of quantum physics, and try explaining the double slit experiment to someone, demonstrating that electrons act both as waves and particles, but change how they behave when they are observed. It doesn't take an enormous leap to understand someone thinking that the experiment must be fake as it's not 'plausible' within the limits of their background understanding and knowledge. This is where science is could start being referred to as 'faith' by some I think.
I think the more and more advanced we get, the greater the knowledge 'disconnect' we'll see, and more and more often we'll encounter the attitude of "I don't understand how it works, therefore it can't work that way"
Except for when it doesn't! One thing that comes to mind is that while we, as a species, advance our collective understanding and knowledge, the actual understanding is held by an increasingly small number of scientists and specialists. Those individuals are becoming more and more remote from the general population (in terms of what each is capable of understanding about their chosen specific area), and the ability to explain these advanced concepts becomes harder to the point of impossible.
We all understand that water is a liquid and that it boils at 100 deg c.
Fewer understand about the latent heat of evaporation and how that works, along with entropy and other aspects of thermodynamics, but it wouldn't be impossible to explain the general concept to someone who doesn't know about it and saying "it requires energy to convert from a liquid to a gas" is an entirely 'plausible' explanation to a lay-person.
Take it to the start of quantum physics, and try explaining the double slit experiment to someone, demonstrating that electrons act both as waves and particles, but change how they behave when they are observed. It doesn't take an enormous leap to understand someone thinking that the experiment must be fake as it's not 'plausible' within the limits of their background understanding and knowledge. This is where science is could start being referred to as 'faith' by some I think.
I think the more and more advanced we get, the greater the knowledge 'disconnect' we'll see, and more and more often we'll encounter the attitude of "I don't understand how it works, therefore it can't work that way"
My mother is a tea fanatic. Don't get her started on how awful the stuff tastes in a ski resort where you can't actually get water to boil at anything much above 90 degrees.
Kermit power said:
feef said:
I've often wondered about the 'reasoning' behind these ideas.
One thing that comes to mind is that while we, as a species, advance our collective understanding and knowledge, the actual understanding is held by an increasingly small number of scientists and specialists. Those individuals are becoming more and more remote from the general population (in terms of what each is capable of understanding about their chosen specific area), and the ability to explain these advanced concepts becomes harder to the point of impossible.
We all understand that water is a liquid and that it boils at 100 deg c.
Fewer understand about the latent heat of evaporation and how that works, along with entropy and other aspects of thermodynamics, but it wouldn't be impossible to explain the general concept to someone who doesn't know about it and saying "it requires energy to convert from a liquid to a gas" is an entirely 'plausible' explanation to a lay-person.
Take it to the start of quantum physics, and try explaining the double slit experiment to someone, demonstrating that electrons act both as waves and particles, but change how they behave when they are observed. It doesn't take an enormous leap to understand someone thinking that the experiment must be fake as it's not 'plausible' within the limits of their background understanding and knowledge. This is where science is could start being referred to as 'faith' by some I think.
I think the more and more advanced we get, the greater the knowledge 'disconnect' we'll see, and more and more often we'll encounter the attitude of "I don't understand how it works, therefore it can't work that way"
Except for when it doesn't! One thing that comes to mind is that while we, as a species, advance our collective understanding and knowledge, the actual understanding is held by an increasingly small number of scientists and specialists. Those individuals are becoming more and more remote from the general population (in terms of what each is capable of understanding about their chosen specific area), and the ability to explain these advanced concepts becomes harder to the point of impossible.
We all understand that water is a liquid and that it boils at 100 deg c.
Fewer understand about the latent heat of evaporation and how that works, along with entropy and other aspects of thermodynamics, but it wouldn't be impossible to explain the general concept to someone who doesn't know about it and saying "it requires energy to convert from a liquid to a gas" is an entirely 'plausible' explanation to a lay-person.
Take it to the start of quantum physics, and try explaining the double slit experiment to someone, demonstrating that electrons act both as waves and particles, but change how they behave when they are observed. It doesn't take an enormous leap to understand someone thinking that the experiment must be fake as it's not 'plausible' within the limits of their background understanding and knowledge. This is where science is could start being referred to as 'faith' by some I think.
I think the more and more advanced we get, the greater the knowledge 'disconnect' we'll see, and more and more often we'll encounter the attitude of "I don't understand how it works, therefore it can't work that way"
My mother is a tea fanatic. Don't get her started on how awful the stuff tastes in a ski resort where you can't actually get water to boil at anything much above 90 degrees.
You know fine well what I was getting at
TooMany2cvs said:
I do wonder how many of the people feeding this st to the hard-of-thinking actually believe it themselves.
Sure, the gullible swallow it hook, line and sinker. T'was ever thus.
But what about the people up the chain? Are they just in it for the cash, having found a nice lucrative product and market niche?
(See also: US TV pay-per-prey pray evangelists)
Are you describing politicians, or the likes of Alex Jones? either way, you have a point.t to the hard-of-thinking actually believe it themselves.Sure, the gullible swallow it hook, line and sinker. T'was ever thus.
But what about the people up the chain? Are they just in it for the cash, having found a nice lucrative product and market niche?
(See also: US TV pay-per-
They are just one brand. I think this thread is specifically about the attempts to undermine genuine knowledge and science by charlatans - most of whom are NOT politicians but are either deluded, crooks or a combination of both.
This behaviour is not new or original. Such carry-on has been happening since the dawn of time. However, with modern media - especially the Internet - there does seem to be a lot more of it about.
Carl Sagan warned about this phenomenon over 20 years ago.
This behaviour is not new or original. Such carry-on has been happening since the dawn of time. However, with modern media - especially the Internet - there does seem to be a lot more of it about.
Carl Sagan warned about this phenomenon over 20 years ago.
I actually bumped into flat earther yesterday at speaker’s corner. As you can imagine the conversation went nowhere with crowd egging him on to actually answer a single one of my questions.
The killer exchange was this:
FE- No was ever circumnavigated the globe pole to pole ever, it has never happened because you can’t
Me - Sorry mate you are wrong.
FE - Prove it mate, go on prove it, you have got nothing
Me - I can think of three instances off the top of my head
FE - Laughs!! Mate you have got nothing
ME - How about Captains Fred L. Austin and Harrison Finch, they piloted a Boeing 707 over the poles in 1965, and then there was PAN AM Flight 50 that did the same circumnavigation in 1977.
FE - That never happened, you are just making up names
Me - Roll eyes, OK then how about Sir Ranulph Fiennes who did it by land and sea..
FE - Interrupts - That never happened, I am ex navy and was on that trip and they never made it because they discovered it could not be done.
Me - When was that then?
FE - About 4 - 5 years about
Me - That’s odd as the trip actually happened in 1977, look it up
Cue much laughter and finger pointing from the crowd.
Flat earthers, you really could not make them up......
The killer exchange was this:
FE- No was ever circumnavigated the globe pole to pole ever, it has never happened because you can’t
Me - Sorry mate you are wrong.
FE - Prove it mate, go on prove it, you have got nothing
Me - I can think of three instances off the top of my head
FE - Laughs!! Mate you have got nothing
ME - How about Captains Fred L. Austin and Harrison Finch, they piloted a Boeing 707 over the poles in 1965, and then there was PAN AM Flight 50 that did the same circumnavigation in 1977.
FE - That never happened, you are just making up names
Me - Roll eyes, OK then how about Sir Ranulph Fiennes who did it by land and sea..
FE - Interrupts - That never happened, I am ex navy and was on that trip and they never made it because they discovered it could not be done.
Me - When was that then?
FE - About 4 - 5 years about
Me - That’s odd as the trip actually happened in 1977, look it up
Cue much laughter and finger pointing from the crowd.
Flat earthers, you really could not make them up......
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