Ghosts

Author
Discussion

TwigtheWonderkid

35,173 posts

114 months

Wednesday 14th October 2020
quotequote all
Ayahuasca said:
Does America exist? Before 1492 objectively examining the evidence overwhelmingly suggested that it can’t and doesn’t.
What overwhelming evidence was there pre 1492 that America couldn't and didn't exist?

TwigtheWonderkid

35,173 posts

114 months

Wednesday 14th October 2020
quotequote all
ruprechtmonkeyboy said:
I'm just saying that you have your view and others may differ, there is no right or wrong answer on this as we cannot say for certain if ghosts exist or not.
Do you apply that standard of certainty for all discussions. Is there no right or wrong answer for the Earth being flat or spherical? We can't say for certain, as the evidence for it being spherical may be a delusion created by a superior being who just likes teasing us.

How about the invisible mini unicorn I keep in my coat pocket. Only I can see it, and you cannot say for certain it doesn't exist.

randlemarcus

12,675 posts

195 months

Wednesday 14th October 2020
quotequote all
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Ayahuasca said:
Does America exist? Before 1492 objectively examining the evidence overwhelmingly suggested that it can’t and doesn’t.
What overwhelming evidence was there pre 1492 that America couldn't and didn't exist?
Ooh, I can answer that one. There is no evidence that America existed pre-1492, because it didnt. There absolutely was a landmass similar to the modern North and South America just West of Ireland though.

CS Garth

2,649 posts

69 months

Wednesday 14th October 2020
quotequote all
Ayahuasca said:
CS Garth said:
ruprechtmonkeyboy said:
I'm just saying that you have your view and others may differ, there is no right or wrong answer on this as we cannot say for certain if ghosts exist or not.
No, but objectively examining the evidence it overwhelming suggests that they can’t and don’t
Does America exist? Before 1492 objectively examining the evidence overwhelmingly suggested that it can’t and doesn’t.
We obviously didn’t have the ability to know this in the now UK for certain at the time. The analogy would be we don’t have the knowledge or evidence to know whether ghosts currently exist. I would contend we do.

-crookedtail-

1,426 posts

154 months

Wednesday 14th October 2020
quotequote all
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Squirrelofwoe said:
I also believe that this is why alleged ghost sightings are much more likely to happen to people who already believe in the concept of ghosts (as obvious as that sounds), than to those who do not. In my opinion the brains of those who do believe in ghosts will be much more predisposed to interpret unusual or distorted sensory data as being supernatural, and therefore produce images that fit those beliefs and expectations. They will have naturally spent a lot more time thinking about ghosts and so will have a lot more stored data from which the brain can draw on- i.e. we often see what we want to see (faces in clouds / Jesus in toast phenomena).

Whilst the brains of those who do not believe in ghosts are far more likely to rationalise unusual or distorted data and therefore not produce images of ghostly apparitions.

I firmly maintain that the finer workings of the human brain represents one of the greatest deficiencies in our current scientific knowledge, and developments in this area will go a long way to explaining the vast majority of 'supernatural' occurrences. Lets not forget, it was not that long ago that many people believed drilling a hole in someone's head was a viable treatment for psychological disorders- we have come a long way in a short space of time but it's still relatively early days when it comes to fully understanding how the brain works.

All in my opinion of course. I am firmly in the Brian Cox camp when it comes to rationalising the physical manifestation of the supernatural- i.e. it's scientifically impossible. People often say that we know very little about the universe, but I would argue that we actually understand a huge amount and the fact that the same processes play out and our predictions continue to be confirmed however deep into space we look, suggests that our current understanding of matter, elements, and the boundaries of physics is very well founded.
This nails it, 100%.

We all know that humans get things wrong, that we see and feel things that aren't there, that we dream when we are convinced we're awake, that we can be very unreliable witnesses. Yet this knowledge goes out the window for some, who remain absolutely convinced that what they saw was actually 100% an accurate representation of what was there. It's a kind of arrogance of infallibility, like ..yeah, I know people can see things that aren't there....but not me!
Whilst I agree with you both for the most part, well pretty much all of it actually. Do you think that the bit in bold is only valid with what we know at the moment?

Sounds silly but hear me out hehe

Totally different context but up to 1995, rogue waves were thought to be scientifically impossible due to the wave modeling that was understood at the time, any encounters from old sea dogs were dismissed away as mythical old tales. Then the Draupner wave occurred and provided real evidence for the first time. Maybe we're just waiting for our ghostly rouge wave moment?

I still don't think they're possible myself, and its the brain we don't understand, but am willing to be proved incorrect


liner33

8,275 posts

166 months

Wednesday 14th October 2020
quotequote all
CS Garth said:
You’d think there would be some decent photos of them in this smart phone age if they actually existed though wouldn’t you?
There are plenty of pictures that purport to be of ghosts, also CCTV but if you don't believe you will never believe and therefore will assume its all fake, perhaps it is

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12451559/ghost-woman...



ruprechtmonkeyboy

1,520 posts

51 months

Wednesday 14th October 2020
quotequote all
TwigtheWonderkid said:
ruprechtmonkeyboy said:
I'm just saying that you have your view and others may differ, there is no right or wrong answer on this as we cannot say for certain if ghosts exist or not.
Do you apply that standard of certainty for all discussions. Is there no right or wrong answer for the Earth being flat or spherical? We can't say for certain, as the evidence for it being spherical may be a delusion created by a superior being who just likes teasing us.

How about the invisible mini unicorn I keep in my coat pocket. Only I can see it, and you cannot say for certain it doesn't exist.
Well that depends. Do you keep it in an inside or outside pocket, plus is the pocket vented?

TwigtheWonderkid

35,173 posts

114 months

Wednesday 14th October 2020
quotequote all
liner33 said:
There are plenty of pictures that purport to be of ghosts, also CCTV but if you don't believe you will never believe and therefore will assume its all fake, perhaps it is
Verifying the existence of ghosts is a doddle. We had had awful tragedies at football matches, Hillsborough, Bradford, Ibrox, in the last 50 years. Many people killed. Just one of them, appearing on the pitch during the game as a ghost, in front of the tv cameras, and thousands of fans, and the dispute would be over.

Cold

10,793 posts

54 months

Wednesday 14th October 2020
quotequote all
Surely there would need to be an agreed definition of "Ghost" before their existence can or cannot be verified?

ruprechtmonkeyboy

1,520 posts

51 months

Wednesday 14th October 2020
quotequote all
Cold said:
Surely there would need to be an agreed definition of "Ghost" before their existence can or cannot be verified?
I'm more concerned about the health and wellbeing of Twig's pocket unicorn now.

deckster

5,799 posts

219 months

Wednesday 14th October 2020
quotequote all
ruprechtmonkeyboy said:
I'm more concerned about the health of Twig's pocket unicorn now.
There's a horn joke in there somewhere.

ruprechtmonkeyboy

1,520 posts

51 months

Wednesday 14th October 2020
quotequote all
deckster said:
ruprechtmonkeyboy said:
I'm more concerned about the health of Twig's pocket unicorn now.
There's a horn joke in there somewhere.
biggrin

CS Garth

2,649 posts

69 months

Wednesday 14th October 2020
quotequote all
liner33 said:
CS Garth said:
You’d think there would be some decent photos of them in this smart phone age if they actually existed though wouldn’t you?
There are plenty of pictures that purport to be of ghosts, also CCTV but if you don't believe you will never believe and therefore will assume its all fake, perhaps it is

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12451559/ghost-woman...
As a comment on the Sun website states you can see the pixels around the character. Perhaps it’s her ghostly aura - or just someone blending it into the building ground shot.



smn159

8,021 posts

181 months

Wednesday 14th October 2020
quotequote all
liner33 said:
CS Garth said:
You’d think there would be some decent photos of them in this smart phone age if they actually existed though wouldn’t you?
There are plenty of pictures that purport to be of ghosts, also CCTV but if you don't believe you will never believe and therefore will assume its all fake, perhaps it is

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12451559/ghost-woman...
Not sure that a clickbait article in The Sun counts as empirical evidence though. Is there any corroboration in the Daily Star?





liner33

8,275 posts

166 months

Wednesday 14th October 2020
quotequote all
As I said, there is absolutely no video or photo that could ever be posted that could in any way prove the existence of ghosts.


smn159

8,021 posts

181 months

Wednesday 14th October 2020
quotequote all
I believe that the Daily Sport printed similar evidence of a double decker bus and a B29 bomber on the moon a few years back - might be worth a look?

scratchchin

TwigtheWonderkid

35,173 posts

114 months

Wednesday 14th October 2020
quotequote all
liner33 said:
As I said, there is absolutely no video or photo that could ever be posted that could in any way prove the existence of ghosts.

Yes there is, a genuine one. Doesn't exist though.

Martin350

3,583 posts

159 months

Wednesday 14th October 2020
quotequote all
TwigtheWonderkid said:
liner33 said:
As I said, there is absolutely no video or photo that could ever be posted that could in any way prove the existence of ghosts.

Yes there is, a genuine one. Doesn't exist though.
Kinda proves liner's point.


TwigtheWonderkid

35,173 posts

114 months

Thursday 15th October 2020
quotequote all
Martin350 said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
liner33 said:
As I said, there is absolutely no video or photo that could ever be posted that could in any way prove the existence of ghosts.

Yes there is, a genuine one. Doesn't exist though.
Kinda proves liner's point.
Really doesn't.

conkerman

2,317 posts

99 months

Thursday 15th October 2020
quotequote all
smn159 said:
I believe that the Daily Sport printed similar evidence of a double decker bus and a B29 bomber on the moon a few years back - might be worth a look?

scratchchin
Sounds Legit.