Things you always wanted to know the answer to [Vol. 5]

[48k]

psi310398 said:

StevieBee said:

psi310398 said:

Talking of recycling etc, is the Royal Mail explicitly exempted from the anti fly-tipping legislation that the rest of us are bound by?

I’ve just spent a quarter of an hour sorting out all the accumulated unsolicited (and untargeted) bumpf that our local postwoman dumps through the letter box on a regular basis. I’ve asked her to stop and only to deliver stuff actually addressed to us but, apparently, she has instructions to ignore such requests.

I don’t even mean the stuff addressed to the “Legal Occupier” from TV Licensing or Scottish Power or other organisations who can’t be bothered to research who they are dealing with or whether they do actually need to contact me. I mean fliers and other round robins. Quite clearly unsolicited and obviously likely to be unwelcome to the majority of recipients. Apart from being irritating, it’s also inexcusably wasteful of resources.

How does RM get away with this? If I regularly put litter through a neighbour’s letterbox, I’m fairly sure there’d be legal consequences.

And, yes, I have used the opt out for the direct marketing stuff but that doesn’t apply to this stuff apparently.

I get what you're saying but it's not fly-tipping. The Royal Mail are delivering items to its intended destination. Whether you appreciate or want what they deliver is of no concern to them. They are doing what someone has paid them to do.

I was explicitly excluding stuff which posted through the system. I’m meaning the armfuls of unaddressed bumpf which AIUI does not constitute post that the RM has a legal obligation to deliver.

This is unaddressed and untargeted stuff that they solicit because it gets them an income but it is not from what I can understand a statutory service.

I’m not particularly stressed about it, but just curious if and why they think it is a service to the recipient.

I also wonder what would happen if I saved up a sackful of this stuff and dumped it on the counter at the sorting office on the equally doubtful basis that RM might be interested in the messages.

They are known as "door to doors" and yes they are contractually obliged to deliver them.

https://www.royalmail.com/business/marketing/mail/...

[psi310398]

48k said:

They are known as "door to doors" and yes they are contractually obliged to deliver them.

https://www.royalmail.com/business/marketing/mail/...

This is getting to be heavier weather than a light hearted thread should be.

I completely understand that they enter into contracts to deliver the stuff but that’s between RM and the companies they contract with. In the same way that RM is not a party to the agreement between me and my window cleaner.

But what I am contending is that there is, so far as I can see, no statutory obligation on them to dump this stuff on my doormat. I am not a party to the contracts and I have not sought the ‘service’. To me it is simply a nuisance.

[StevieBee]

48k said:

psi310398 said:

StevieBee said:

psi310398 said:

Talking of recycling etc, is the Royal Mail explicitly exempted from the anti fly-tipping legislation that the rest of us are bound by?

I’ve just spent a quarter of an hour sorting out all the accumulated unsolicited (and untargeted) bumpf that our local postwoman dumps through the letter box on a regular basis. I’ve asked her to stop and only to deliver stuff actually addressed to us but, apparently, she has instructions to ignore such requests.

I don’t even mean the stuff addressed to the “Legal Occupier” from TV Licensing or Scottish Power or other organisations who can’t be bothered to research who they are dealing with or whether they do actually need to contact me. I mean fliers and other round robins. Quite clearly unsolicited and obviously likely to be unwelcome to the majority of recipients. Apart from being irritating, it’s also inexcusably wasteful of resources.

How does RM get away with this? If I regularly put litter through a neighbour’s letterbox, I’m fairly sure there’d be legal consequences.

And, yes, I have used the opt out for the direct marketing stuff but that doesn’t apply to this stuff apparently.

I get what you're saying but it's not fly-tipping. The Royal Mail are delivering items to its intended destination. Whether you appreciate or want what they deliver is of no concern to them. They are doing what someone has paid them to do.

I was explicitly excluding stuff which posted through the system. I’m meaning the armfuls of unaddressed bumpf which AIUI does not constitute post that the RM has a legal obligation to deliver.

This is unaddressed and untargeted stuff that they solicit because it gets them an income but it is not from what I can understand a statutory service.

I’m not particularly stressed about it, but just curious if and why they think it is a service to the recipient.

I also wonder what would happen if I saved up a sackful of this stuff and dumped it on the counter at the sorting office on the equally doubtful basis that RM might be interested in the messages.

They are known as "door to doors" and yes they are contractually obliged to deliver them.

https://www.royalmail.com/business/marketing/mail/...

And better that they do it rather than some 15 year-old oik who gets bored and dumps the lot in a stream.

[psi310398]

StevieBee said:

And better that they do it rather than some 15 year-old oik who gets bored and dumps the lot in a stream.

Of course, other (greener) options are available, such as outlawing the practice altogether, or taxing it to buggery .

[48k]

psi310398 said:

48k said:

They are known as "door to doors" and yes they are contractually obliged to deliver them.

https://www.royalmail.com/business/marketing/mail/...

This is getting to be heavier weather than a light hearted thread should be.

I completely understand that they enter into contracts to deliver the stuff but that’s between RM and the companies they contract with. In the same way that RM is not a party to the agreement between me and my window cleaner.

But what I am contending is that there is, so far as I can see, no statutory obligation on them to dump this stuff on my doormat. I am not a party to the contracts and I have not sought the ‘service’. To me it is simply a nuisance.

Why does their need to be a statutory obligation? There's a contract for it, that's it. The postie has to do it. They don't particularly like it, you don't particularly like it, but someone has paid for it to be done and postie is not allowed to keep personal note for each of the 1500+ letterboxes they deliver to who does and doesnt want leaflets. It's no different to the local pizza place posting a flyer through, or the local free paper coming through the door that you haven't asked for, or the window cleaner or local cabby posting a flyer. Just put them in the recycling if you're not interested in the content.

[RizzoTheRat]

Surely the point is why is done these days. There must be enough of a return on it to warrant companies continuing to produce these fliers, but the vast majority of it ends up in the rubbish/recycling. It does seem rather wasteful.

I could pay psi310398 to put a flier through your letter box, presumably that would be legal, and he would have a contractual obligation to do it just the same as the post office does. But at what point does it become illegal? When I pay him to put 10 fliers a day through your door? 100? A couple of bags of horse manure?

[Error_404_Username_not_found]

Here's a thing I've genuinely wanted to know for a long time, though not "always".
What is this thing?
I found it lying in the driveway one night about three years ago when I was walking the dog, and it has been sitting on my bookcase ever since. I didn't want to bin it until I found out.



It's machined (not particularly finely) from stainless steel, probably fairly low grade like 304 or maybe 310. 40mm overall length, 23mm overall diameter and has a parallel bore of 6.3mm.
The knurled-head screw has a major diameter of 0.28mm, but I haven't measured the pitch. Nearest thing I can find for the screw would be 7/64" but my Zeus is in my workshop and I CBA looking it up.



I mean, WTAF??
Bet someone knows!

[psi310398]

48k said:

Why does their need to be a statutory obligation? There's a contract for it, that's it. The postie has to do it. They don't particularly like it, you don't particularly like it, but someone has paid for it to be done and postie is not allowed to keep personal note for each of the 1500+ letterboxes they deliver to who does and doesnt want leaflets. It's no different to the local pizza place posting a flyer through, or the local free paper coming through the door that you haven't asked for, or the window cleaner or local cabby posting a flyer. Just put them in the recycling if you're not interested in the content.

You are ignoring the fairly obvious point that, absent statute, RM doesn’t have to do it or force its posties to do it. RM chooses to it in pursuit of profit. I do not exist to enrich RM’s shareholders.

It goes back to my flytipping point. I can pay someone to take a load of stuff away for me but it doesn’t give me or them the right to dump it on a third party without permission. The other use cases are, at least, generally small businesses trying to make a turn.

I think I’ll take to popping the crap in the nearest mailbox and do my bit to dilute those profits a bit.

[QuartzDad]

Was stationary in traffic opposite this recently and wondered what's inside? It appears to have air conditioning and a diesel generator. M40 J9 southbound. Would seem to be a weird place to put controls for the traffic lights on the roundabout above as you've got to do J10 to J8 to access it by vehicle.



https://www.google.com/maps/@51.8688598,-1.1984103...

[Abbott]

Error_404_Username_not_found said:

With a 6mm graduated rod through the centre could it be some sort of depth gauge

[Clockwork Cupcake]

psi310398 said:

I think I’ll take to popping the crap in the nearest mailbox and do my bit to dilute those profits a bit.

Maybe, either on the way there or back, you could pause to shake your fist angrily at some clouds too?

[48k]

psi310398 said:

48k said:

Why does their need to be a statutory obligation? There's a contract for it, that's it. The postie has to do it. They don't particularly like it, you don't particularly like it, but someone has paid for it to be done and postie is not allowed to keep personal note for each of the 1500+ letterboxes they deliver to who does and doesnt want leaflets. It's no different to the local pizza place posting a flyer through, or the local free paper coming through the door that you haven't asked for, or the window cleaner or local cabby posting a flyer. Just put them in the recycling if you're not interested in the content.

You are ignoring the fairly obvious point that, absent statute, RM doesn’t have to do it or force its posties to do it. RM chooses to it in pursuit of profit. I do not exist to enrich RM’s shareholders.

It goes back to my flytipping point. I can pay someone to take a load of stuff away for me but it doesn’t give me or them the right to dump it on a third party without permission. The other use cases are, at least, generally small businesses trying to make a turn.

I think I’ll take to popping the crap in the nearest mailbox and do my bit to dilute those profits a bit.

Trying to equate Royal Mail door-to-doors with flytipping again is a weird straw man. I've already answered your question "is the Royal Mail explicitly exempted from the anti fly-tipping legislation that the rest of us are bound by?" - it's not fly tipping.

Your postie is correct that she's not allowed to not post the leaflets, they have to do it, someone has paid for the service. They are annoying to sort and post, the posties don't particularly enjoy having to do that either, or deal with some of the abuse they get because of it.

If it was a totally pointless service, no businesses would use it. RM data clearly shows there is a market for it. And as StevieB pointed out, some businesses don't need a very high hit rate for it to be a worthwhile marketing investment.

It is what it is, you can continue to shake your fist at the sky about it if that makes you feel better.

[psi310398]

48k said:

Trying to equate Royal Mail door-to-doors with flytipping again is a weird straw man. I've already answered your question "is the Royal Mail explicitly exempted from the anti fly-tipping legislation that the rest of us are bound by?" - it's not fly tipping.

Your postie is correct that she's not allowed to not post the leaflets, they have to do it, someone has paid for the service. They are annoying to sort and post, the posties don't particularly enjoy having to do that either, or deal with some of the abuse they get because of it.

If it was a totally pointless service, no businesses would use it. RM data clearly shows there is a market for it. And as StevieB pointed out, some businesses don't need a very high hit rate for it to be a worthwhile marketing investment.

It is what it is, you can continue to shake your fist at the sky about it if that makes you feel better.

I think we’ve exhausted the possibilities of this topic.

I don’t think it is a straw man. So far as I am concerned, what comes through my letterbox is valueless st only fit for the bin. I don’t care if it suits businesses. The word nuisance probably captures it but the practice puts me to time and trouble, admittedly not very much, but mine nonetheless to chose what to with, not those businesses’. You and others think it’s ok. I don’t.

But in the scheme of things, it’s no big deal.

[Truckosaurus]

You can, of course, opt out of unaddressed junk mail through your door - but you will also miss out on some things that might be of use to you - eg. election notices or other government leaflets.

https://personal.help.royalmail.com/app/answers/de...

[Clockwork Cupcake]

psi310398 said:

I think we’ve exhausted the possibilities of this topic.

I don’t think it is a straw man. So far as I am concerned, what comes through my letterbox is valueless st only fit for the bin. I don’t care if it suits businesses. The word nuisance probably captures it but the practice puts me to time and trouble, admittedly not very much, but mine nonetheless to chose what to with, not those businesses’. You and others think it’s ok. I don’t.

What happens if you get a birthday card from someone you don't like? Are you going to blame your postie for delivering that too on the grounds that it's something you don't want?

Fact is that getting fliers and leaflets is part and parcel (no pun intended) of having a letterbox. Seal it up if you don't like it.

psi310398 said:

But in the scheme of things, it’s no big deal.

Your repeated and dogged replies suggest otherwise.

[Clockwork Cupcake]

Truckosaurus said:

You can, of course, opt out of unaddressed junk mail through your door - but you will also miss out on some things that might be of use to you - eg. election notices or other government leaflets.

https://personal.help.royalmail.com/app/answers/de...

That's a far more constructive suggestion than mine.

Well, there you go then, psi310398. That's the answer to your question. If you don't want Royal Mail to deliver unaddressed mail to you then follow the link that Truckosaurus has posted.

Edited by Clockwork Cupcake on Tuesday 23 April 11:02

[psi310398]

Truckosaurus said:

You can, of course, opt out of unaddressed junk mail through your door - but you will also miss out on some things that might be of use to you - eg. election notices or other government leaflets.

https://personal.help.royalmail.com/app/answers/de...

Thanks for the suggestion. I have done so in the past, and it simply doesn’t stop it, natch.

I’d happily miss all the government leaflets. One clarification, though, the important election stuff is personally addressed and comes through the regular post. I’ve just received the latest batch.

[Clockwork Cupcake]

psi310398 said:

Thanks for the suggestion. I have done so in the past, and it simply doesn’t stop it, natch.

Are you sure you're not just receiving hand-delivered / non-RM stuff still? Is the unaddressed mail definitely coming from your postie? In which case complain to RM.

Also, you say "in the past". How far in the past? According to the link the opt-out lasts two years and therefore needs periodic renewal.

[hidetheelephants]

Error_404_Username_not_found said:

Here's a thing I've genuinely wanted to know for a long time, though not "always".
What is this thing?
I found it lying in the driveway one night about three years ago when I was walking the dog, and it has been sitting on my bookcase ever since. I didn't want to bin it until I found out.



It's machined (not particularly finely) from stainless steel, probably fairly low grade like 304 or maybe 310. 40mm overall length, 23mm overall diameter and has a parallel bore of 6.3mm.
The knurled-head screw has a major diameter of 0.28mm, but I haven't measured the pitch. Nearest thing I can find for the screw would be 7/64" but my Zeus is in my workshop and I CBA looking it up.



I mean, WTAF??
Bet someone knows!

The tapered bit looks like it has a screw thread; perhaps a lamp fitting with the tapered bit to screw into a wooden base? Or if it's just rough then perhaps glued in place. Quarter inch is a bit skinny for a lamp holder though.

On the whole it's more likely part of a trammel like has already been suggested. Perhaps it's been made as a workshop exercise, is there a FE college nearby with a workshop?

[psi310398]

Clockwork Cupcake said:

Are you sure you're not just receiving hand-delivered / non-RM stuff still? Is the unaddressed mail definitely coming from your postie? In which case complain to RM.

Also, you say "in the past". How far in the past? According to the link the opt-out lasts two years and therefore needs periodic renewal.

Quite sure, thanks.

I’ve had several (perfectly cordial) conversations with the postie and she confirmed that she was delivering the stuff. I made her aware that I had opted out but she can’t do anything about it, apparently. The problem is compounded by the fact that I’m the freeholder of a building with three subsidiary leases so I get three to four times the amount of guff that others might.

Try as I might I cannot get the characters who administer the RM address database to update their records (added to which there remain several records of long defunct businesses that have not been purged).

And yes I have opted out again within the last two years. But, again, like the TV Licensing people, why should I have to keep telling them something? Better to let people opt back in if the mood took them.