Things you always wanted to know the answer to [Vol. 5]

[SpeckledJim]

csd19 said:

To keep to the thread topic...

It is said that confidence is attractive, but what if you don't feel attractive enough to be confident?

Both are self-reinforcing cycles, and if you end up in the wrong one it's hard to get out.

[Evoluzione]

csd19 said:

To keep to the thread topic...

It is said that confidence is attractive, but what if you don't feel attractive enough to be confident?

You don't have to be attractive to be confident so it's not an issue.

[StevieBee]

This might equally suit the 'things that annoy you thread', but I am genuinely interested in why or how so many website designed to make life easier manage to do the reverse.

If ever you've applied for a Public Sector tender through a tender portal, you'll know what I mean. If you win the tender, you then need to register yourself as a supplier on another portal that has the navigational capacity of custard.

Who's writing the codes for these sites and gets to a point where they think..."yeah, that'll do?"

[SturdyHSV]

basherX said:

I know this has been covered before, either in this thread or elsewhere on PH. And I can't claim I've always wanted to know the answer. However can someone explain in terms that this idiot would understand why PH close threads after 500 pages* and re-open another new thread? What's the technical difference (in simple terms) between 1 x 1,000 page thread and 2 x 500 pages?


*Other forum views are available, but the point holds

Look at the address (I've stuck some spaces in so that it doesn't get made into a link).

https://www. pistonheads. com /gassing /topic.asp?&h=0&f=210&t=1884423&i=3840

The way that works is the basic webpage is https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp and the bits after the ? are the 'parameters' that are passed to the webserver so it knows what page to return you.

These are prefixed with an & and then a letter to indicate which parameter it is.

&h is actually the heading style I suspect, if you put in &h=3 instead of &h=0 for example, the forum is then called Planet TVR, and you can only see a subset of the forums and such.

&f is the forum, so &f=210 is the Lounge sub forum. General Gassing is 23.

&t is the thread, so this is thread with ID 1884423.

&i is which 'page' in a way, but it's actually the index (as in, which post number within the thread) to display as the first one. 'Interestingly' you can put in 999999 to get to the last page regardless.

I would imagine the 500 page limit is related to some range of values for that i parameter that are acceptable in the code in the back end, as 500 x 20 is 10000, so the point at which that i parameter would tick over from 4 figures to 5... Likely the software was written expecting between 0 and 9999 posts in a thread being the most likely to ever be seen, and so either it just doesn't read the 5th number or just throws a tantrum.

It isn't an actual 'software' limitation, as 9999 vs 10000 is irrelevant to a computer, if it was nearer 65535 or one of the obvious 'powers of 2' type numbers then maybe I'd suggest it's a poorly chosen variable type in the background, but to me, likely to be a human decided "we'll never have more than 10000 posts in a thread" and wrote it accordingly.

The '999999' to get to the last page is somewhat outside this rule, and was maybe added as a 'magic number' of sorts to give some nicer behaviour of always going to the last page etc. without having to worry what the user has as their paging settings.

Edited by SturdyHSV on Thursday 24th June 16:52

[akirk]

SturdyHSV said:

basherX said:

I know this has been covered before, either in this thread or elsewhere on PH. And I can't claim I've always wanted to know the answer. However can someone explain in terms that this idiot would understand why PH close threads after 500 pages* and re-open another new thread? What's the technical difference (in simple terms) between 1 x 1,000 page thread and 2 x 500 pages?


*Other forum views are available, but the point holds

Look at the address (I've stuck some spaces in so that it doesn't get made into a link).

https://www. pistonheads. com /gassing /topic.asp?&h=0&f=210&t=1884423&i=3840

The way that works is the basic webpage is https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp and the bits after the ? are the 'parameters' that are passed to the webserver so it knows what page to return you.

These are prefixed with an & and then a letter to indicate which parameter it is.

&h is actually the heading style I suspect, if you put in &h=3 instead of &h=0 for example, the forum is then called Planet TVR, and you can only see a subset of the forums and such.

&f is the forum, so &f=210 is the Lounge sub forum. General Gassing is 23.

&t is the thread, so this is thread with ID 1884423.

&i is which 'page' in a way, but it's actually the index (as in, which post number within the thread) to display as the first one. 'Interestingly' you can put in 999999 to get to the last page regardless.

I would imagine the 500 page limit is related to some range of values for that i parameter that are acceptable in the code in the back end, as 500 x 20 is 10000, so the point at which that i parameter would tick over from 4 figures to 5... Likely the software was written expecting between 0 and 9999 posts in a thread being the most likely to ever be seen, and so either it just doesn't read the 5th number or just throws a tantrum.

It isn't an actual 'software' limitation, as 9999 vs 10000 is irrelevant to a computer, if it was nearer 65535 or one of the obvious 'powers of 2' type numbers then maybe I'd suggest it's a poorly chosen variable type in the background, but to me, likely to be a human decided "we'll never have more than 10000 posts in a thread" and wrote it accordingly.

The '999999' to get to the last page is somewhat outside this rule, and was maybe added as a 'magic number' of sorts to give some nicer behaviour of always going to the last page etc. without having to worry what the user has as their paging settings.

Edited by SturdyHSV on Thursday 24th June 16:52

I would suspect that the limitation will be something to do with the database and how information is stored - there is rarely a code limitation - but a field length limitation / field type limitation / etc. could cause an issue like this...
is it necessary - no
could it be fixed - yes
will it be fixed - probably not

it would also be trivial to take the maximum number (n) and stop the threads at n-1 automatically, then create an automated post (n) linking the thread to an auto-created new thread - and in that thread auto-create a first post linking back to the original thread / quoting the original post as a reminder / etc.
will it happen - probably not

[basherX]

akirk said:

SturdyHSV said:

basherX said:

I know this has been covered before, either in this thread or elsewhere on PH. And I can't claim I've always wanted to know the answer. However can someone explain in terms that this idiot would understand why PH close threads after 500 pages* and re-open another new thread? What's the technical difference (in simple terms) between 1 x 1,000 page thread and 2 x 500 pages?


*Other forum views are available, but the point holds

Look at the address (I've stuck some spaces in so that it doesn't get made into a link).

https://www. pistonheads. com /gassing /topic.asp?&h=0&f=210&t=1884423&i=3840

The way that works is the basic webpage is https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp and the bits after the ? are the 'parameters' that are passed to the webserver so it knows what page to return you.

These are prefixed with an & and then a letter to indicate which parameter it is.

&h is actually the heading style I suspect, if you put in &h=3 instead of &h=0 for example, the forum is then called Planet TVR, and you can only see a subset of the forums and such.

&f is the forum, so &f=210 is the Lounge sub forum. General Gassing is 23.

&t is the thread, so this is thread with ID 1884423.

&i is which 'page' in a way, but it's actually the index (as in, which post number within the thread) to display as the first one. 'Interestingly' you can put in 999999 to get to the last page regardless.

I would imagine the 500 page limit is related to some range of values for that i parameter that are acceptable in the code in the back end, as 500 x 20 is 10000, so the point at which that i parameter would tick over from 4 figures to 5... Likely the software was written expecting between 0 and 9999 posts in a thread being the most likely to ever be seen, and so either it just doesn't read the 5th number or just throws a tantrum.

It isn't an actual 'software' limitation, as 9999 vs 10000 is irrelevant to a computer, if it was nearer 65535 or one of the obvious 'powers of 2' type numbers then maybe I'd suggest it's a poorly chosen variable type in the background, but to me, likely to be a human decided "we'll never have more than 10000 posts in a thread" and wrote it accordingly.

The '999999' to get to the last page is somewhat outside this rule, and was maybe added as a 'magic number' of sorts to give some nicer behaviour of always going to the last page etc. without having to worry what the user has as their paging settings.

Edited by SturdyHSV on Thursday 24th June 16:52

I would suspect that the limitation will be something to do with the database and how information is stored - there is rarely a code limitation - but a field length limitation / field type limitation / etc. could cause an issue like this...
is it necessary - no
could it be fixed - yes
will it be fixed - probably not

it would also be trivial to take the maximum number (n) and stop the threads at n-1 automatically, then create an automated post (n) linking the thread to an auto-created new thread - and in that thread auto-create a first post linking back to the original thread / quoting the original post as a reminder / etc.
will it happen - probably not

Really interesting and insightful. Thank you.

[SturdyHSV]

StevieBee said:

This might equally suit the 'things that annoy you thread', but I am genuinely interested in why or how so many website designed to make life easier manage to do the reverse.

If ever you've applied for a Public Sector tender through a tender portal, you'll know what I mean. If you win the tender, you then need to register yourself as a supplier on another portal that has the navigational capacity of custard.

Who's writing the codes for these sites and gets to a point where they think..."yeah, that'll do?"

Web designers or engineers, who frequently do not have the levels of empathy required to put themselves in the shoes of someone who doesn't know what they know about computers. Things seem obvious to them which are not to a non techy user.

Alternatively it is written so that their code is neat, or so that it more simply reflects the database the data is stored in, making their life easier, with no interest in how 'useable' it actually is to a human being.

Also, if public sector, then people who weren't good enough to be in the private sector, or a subcontracted company who won the tender to design the tender website by being the lowest bidder, and who have zero interest beyond delivering it to the 'spec' as it was written by non technical and non user focused public sector workers, so that they can get paid and move on to the next project.

Edited by SturdyHSV on Thursday 24th June 17:29

[SturdyHSV]

akirk said:

I would suspect that the limitation will be something to do with the database and how information is stored - there is rarely a code limitation - but a field length limitation / field type limitation / etc. could cause an issue like this...
is it necessary - no
could it be fixed - yes
will it be fixed - probably not

it would also be trivial to take the maximum number (n) and stop the threads at n-1 automatically, then create an automated post (n) linking the thread to an auto-created new thread - and in that thread auto-create a first post linking back to the original thread / quoting the original post as a reminder / etc.
will it happen - probably not

Ah but the number where it falls over, which we can infer is 10000 isn't a 'computer' type of limit. Unless the database is storing the numerical index of the post as a fking 4 character string, in which case they should be shot repeatedly in the head until dead or worse.

If the limit was nearer an obvious database field type limit, let's say when i got near to 32767 (so the max value of a smallint [in SQL, other databases are available]) then I'd agree with you it's more likely to be a database limitation.

Going from 9999 to 10000 is only relevant if you're looking at the numbers as a human would, i.e. as a collection of characters. 9999 and 10000 requires no different amount of storage space, unless they stored the post index as a string (or let's say a CHAR(4)) which would be stupid beyond belief.

Edited by SturdyHSV on Thursday 24th June 17:30

[Evoluzione]

21st Century Man said:

Evoluzione said:

48k said:

Evoluzione said:

Is there a special Satnav for HGVs?
Ordinary 'Nav could send a large truck down a small road it couldn't fit down...

Yes.

Thanks for the in depth response.

And vans and caravans, vehicle dimensions can be input to tailor route finding. Not really specialist devices either, many top spec sat navs have this capability.

Thanks

I sent someone to a place to check out the access for a truck. He said 'I'm going there tomorrow - in my truck so i'll have a look'.
It made me wonder.

[akirk]

SturdyHSV said:

Ah but the number where it falls over, which we can infer is 10000 isn't a 'computer' type of limit. Unless the database is storing the numerical index of the post as a fking 4 character string, in which case they should be shot repeatedly in the head until dead or worse.

If the limit was nearer an obvious database field type limit, let's say when i got near to 32767 (so the max value of a smallint [in SQL, other databases are available]) then I'd agree with you it's more likely to be a database limitation.

Going from 9999 to 10000 is only relevant if you're looking at the numbers as a human would, i.e. as a collection of characters. 9999 and 10000 requires no different amount of storage space, unless they stored the post index as a string (or let's say a CHAR(4)) which would be stupid beyond belief.

Edited by SturdyHSV on Thursday 24th June 17:30

Stupid maybe
Reality - probably

[kowalski655]

csd19 said:

davhill said:

MartG said:

Why the fk has my Youtube feed suddenly filled up with people playing fking bagpipes ?

And no, I haven't watched a bagpipe video recently...apart for this one perhaps, a few years ago... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXm8JdC4k4c ( no prizes for guessing why )

That's strangely compelling.

And loses absolutely none of the production qualities when muted either

Which is often a good idea when bagpipes are concrned
Although I will conceed a massed Pipe & Drum Corps will put the willies up Johnny Frenchman, Im not so sure about them in pop

[Brother D]

Evoluzione said:

csd19 said:

To keep to the thread topic...

It is said that confidence is attractive, but what if you don't feel attractive enough to be confident?

You don't have to be attractive to be confident so it's not an issue.

I'm super attractive but don't have confidence, so there's that side of the coin : )

[droopsnoot]

kowalski655 said:

Which is often a good idea when bagpipes are concrned

I can't remember where (probably on here somewhere) I read that the definition of a Scottish gentleman is someone who can play the bagpipes, but does not.

[DRFC1879]

kowalski655 said:

csd19 said:

davhill said:

MartG said:

Why the fk has my Youtube feed suddenly filled up with people playing fking bagpipes ?

And no, I haven't watched a bagpipe video recently...apart for this one perhaps, a few years ago... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXm8JdC4k4c ( no prizes for guessing why )

That's strangely compelling.

And loses absolutely none of the production qualities when muted either

Which is often a good idea when bagpipes are concrned
Although I will conceed a massed Pipe & Drum Corps will put the willies up Johnny Frenchman, Im not so sure about them in pop

Horses for courses. It doesn't always work but IMHO this is utterly brilliant. Tom Walker featuring the Red Hot Chilli Pipers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mfd1izwEd9E

[BT Summers]

Are Customs responsible for damage that they cause in the course of their work?

A friend hired a van to deliver an expensive motorcycle that he had sold to Eire rather than risk transport companies who use multiple carriers for the journey.

The van had a plastic one piece lining. Irish Customs cut three holes in the lining to look for contraband, especially drugs. They found nothing, When asked about the damage the customs officers said 'we were just doing our job'.

The hire company took a £1000 excess for the damage from the deposit credit card.

[bmwmike]

SturdyHSV said:

akirk said:

I would suspect that the limitation will be something to do with the database and how information is stored - there is rarely a code limitation - but a field length limitation / field type limitation / etc. could cause an issue like this...
is it necessary - no
could it be fixed - yes
will it be fixed - probably not

it would also be trivial to take the maximum number (n) and stop the threads at n-1 automatically, then create an automated post (n) linking the thread to an auto-created new thread - and in that thread auto-create a first post linking back to the original thread / quoting the original post as a reminder / etc.
will it happen - probably not

Ah but the number where it falls over, which we can infer is 10000 isn't a 'computer' type of limit. Unless the database is storing the numerical index of the post as a fking 4 character string, in which case they should be shot repeatedly in the head until dead or worse.

If the limit was nearer an obvious database field type limit, let's say when i got near to 32767 (so the max value of a smallint [in SQL, other databases are available]) then I'd agree with you it's more likely to be a database limitation.

Going from 9999 to 10000 is only relevant if you're looking at the numbers as a human would, i.e. as a collection of characters. 9999 and 10000 requires no different amount of storage space, unless they stored the post index as a string (or let's say a CHAR(4)) which would be stupid beyond belief.

Edited by SturdyHSV on Thursday 24th June 17:30

I'd assumed the 500 limit was an arbitrary decision for archiving or just not letting discussions get stupidly large. If there was no limit, discussions would go on forever gradually losing relevance/connection to the original post topic.

[nonsequitur]

bmwmike said:

I'd assumed the 500 limit was an arbitrary decision for archiving or just not letting discussions get stupidly large. If there was no limit, discussions would go on forever gradually losing relevance/connection to the original post topic.

Then let us draw a line at 100.

[Clockwork Cupcake]

bmwmike said:

I'd assumed the 500 limit was an arbitrary decision for archiving or just not letting discussions get stupidly large. If there was no limit, discussions would go on forever gradually losing relevance/connection to the original post topic.

I have always assumed that it was arbitrary too. Although the rest of your post makes no sense as breaking a long thread into chunks makes no difference on the direction the discussion takes.

As I said earlier, I think it is either a database issue or a performance issue. Or both. Perhaps very big threads keep getting re-indexed which increases the load on the database server(s), and chunking it means the archived chunks don't get re-indexed.

Edited by Clockwork Cupcake on Friday 25th June 11:40

[The Mad Monk]

BT Summers said:

Are Customs responsible for damage that they cause in the course of their work?

A friend hired a van to deliver an expensive motorcycle that he had sold to Eire rather than risk transport companies who use multiple carriers for the journey.

The van had a plastic one piece lining. Irish Customs cut three holes in the lining to look for contraband, especially drugs. They found nothing, When asked about the damage the customs officers said 'we were just doing our job'.

The hire company took a £1000 excess for the damage from the deposit credit card.

Where is Eire?

[BT Summers]

The Mad Monk said:

Where is Eire?

Apologies if you are making a joke,

You may call Eire as Ireland.

The Irish constitution states that the name of the country is Eire, in the English language, Ireland. The Republic of Ireland is a descriptive term. I was brought up in Eire to English speaking parents and we always used that that word for what others call southern Ireland.