Obesity, is it really an illness or a lifestyle choice?

Obesity, is it really an illness or a lifestyle choice?

Author
Discussion

Crudeoink

484 posts

60 months

Sunday 20th June 2021
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anonymous said:
[redacted]
This is what a lot of people forget. I'm very slim and always have been, i do eat a lot at meal times and at weekends im definitely consuming excess calories. My more portly friends always comment on how i can eat whatever i like, but they dont see me during the working week where i intermittently fast, never snack and go for a 15 min walk every day.
Snacking is a huge one too, i have family that think their body somehow breaks the laws of physics because they eat less than us skinnies at lunch and dinner, but forget the 3 bags of crisps, 3 chocolate bars, yoghurts and odd can of coke they have consumed between meals

MC Bodge

21,671 posts

176 months

Sunday 20th June 2021
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Crudeoink said:
This is what a lot of people forget. I'm very slim and always have been, i do eat a lot at meal times and at weekends im definitely consuming excess calories. My more portly friends always comment on how i can eat whatever i like, but they dont see me during the working week where i intermittently fast, never snack and go for a 15 min walk every day.
Snacking is a huge one too, i have family that think their body somehow breaks the laws of physics because they eat less than us skinnies at lunch and dinner, but forget the 3 bags of crisps, 3 chocolate bars, yoghurts and odd can of coke they have consumed between meals
I fully agree. This appears to be almost universal.

Having a nibble/bite/huge handful of whatever unhealthy snack the kids are eating during the day doesn't count either, I believe...



Not eating between meals or whilst walking around was once a thing. Luckily for us, "a finger of fudge was just enough to give your kids a treat", Milky Way wouldn't spoil your appetite, Minstrels "melt in your mouth, not in your hand" and "a Mars a day helps you achieve diabetes work, rest and play". Some people are now regularly grazing on snacks, even if they are eating reasonable meals.

trowelhead

1,867 posts

122 months

Sunday 20th June 2021
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grumbledoak said:
Widespread obesity first got noticed in the early 1900s. Our ancestors had not been fat. Primitive people we studied were not fat. People in villages far from our cities were not fat. But in the cities people were getting fatter.

This really accelerated around 1980, with the creation of "Public Health" in America, which we imported.

Public Health is a "partnership" between government and industry. The government might have had that aim. But industry wants profits. That is most easily achieved by pushing everyone to eat the cheapest crap industry can produce. The "food pyramid" and the "Eat Well Plate" were published. People were told this was the most healthy way to eat. Far removed from food production, they no longer knew any better. So they adapted these eating pattern. Trillions were made in the food industry. We got fat and diabetic. Trillions more were made in medicine.

It wasn't difficult to work out the cause in the 1920s, and it isn't any more difficult in the 2020s. Yet the majority are both ignorant and miseducated about food. And it is only half their fault. We are miseducated intentionally to sell "product".

"Eat less and move more."
"Count calories."
"Buy this slimming product."
"Get a personal trainer."
"Insulin injections twice daily."
"Frosties, they're Great."

Our ancestors did not have any of these things. We don't need them now. Just think about what you are eating, and what our ancestors ate. You can almost guess the rest. But it goes against what we are taught to believe, or want to believe, and it takes a bit of mental strength to go against the grain.
Ding ding ding - bingo

trowelhead

1,867 posts

122 months

Sunday 20th June 2021
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For anyone genuinely interested in a detailed and science based answer to the question of this thread

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Why-We-Eat-Too-Much/dp/02...

Absolutely life changing book.


Blib

44,212 posts

198 months

Sunday 20th June 2021
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I worked in the addiction treatment ward of a well known psychiatric hospital for many years.

We did not specifically deal with those suffering from eating disorders- they had their own dedicated unit. However, often our clients showed signs of food issues along with their presenting addictions.

We were strict with our clients' diets throughout their 28 day stay. No sugar or white flour. Only 3 meals a day and absolutely no snacking in between. We often asked the catering staff to not allow the client to serve themselves. Instead, the staff would do it for them. It was not unknown for clients to cite this as a reason if they checked out of the hospital early.

We encouraged clients to stick to three meals a day, between 7am & 9; midday to 2pm and 6pm to 8, when they left us. The majority of those who succeeded in recovering from addiction also stuck to the new food regime.

I am not an expert in the very complex subject of eating disorders. However, FWIW, from my experience, I believe that obesity and anorexia are, like addiction, closely linked to childhood attachment issues.

Other, equally valid views, are available. (But, they're wrong) hehe

Hugo Stiglitz

37,184 posts

212 months

Sunday 20th June 2021
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I'm not into fat shaming but it saddened me reading that article that normalises further our acceptance of obesity.

Hark back to our diets in the 70s etc. Meat and veg. Now it's largely processed.

What chance do you really stand if you like your food today?

Companies make big money promoting such foods and look at the likes of McDonald's etc.

Why can't the media focus on the causes rather than the victims of such food for their click bait trolling?

irish boy

3,537 posts

237 months

Sunday 20th June 2021
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I have a fast metabolism and pretty much can eat what I want. Weight hasn’t changed as much as 1/4 stone since I was 18. People told me it would change when I was 25. Then 30. Then 40. No sign yet. Try my best to be as healthy as I can, sugar is my downfall.

popeyewhite

19,974 posts

121 months

Sunday 20th June 2021
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irish boy said:
I have a fast metabolism...
Fast/slow metabolism and it's influence on weightloss/gain is largely an over exaggerated old wives tale. Yes, while a well muscled bloke with low bodyfat will burn more cals at rest than, for instance a woman, their actual metabolic rate (actions of breathing, digestion, heart pumping blood etc) won't vary that much. Basically metabolism is a body's combined processes to keep it functioning as an organism. You haven't stuffed your face for decades, or you'd be fat.

PBCD

719 posts

139 months

Monday 21st June 2021
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grumbledoak said:
It's not the crisps making them fat. It's this

I've seen various posts on this forum and elsewhere citing 'misleading' food pyramids as being a
major cause of nutritional issues in countries such as the UK and USA over the past few decades,
so does anyone have a link to a food pyramid which correctly depicts the ideal proportions of the
different food groups that we should be eating?


Ayahuasca

27,427 posts

280 months

Monday 21st June 2021
quotequote all
Hugo Stiglitz said:
I'm not into fat shaming but it saddened me reading that article that normalises further our acceptance of obesity.

Hark back to our diets in the 70s etc. Meat and veg. Now it's largely processed.

What chance do you really stand if you like your food today?

Companies make big money promoting such foods and look at the likes of McDonald's etc.

Why can't the media focus on the causes rather than the victims of such food for their click bait trolling?
‘Victims’ of McDonalds? Really?

grumbledoak

31,551 posts

234 months

Monday 21st June 2021
quotequote all
PBCD said:
I've seen various posts on this forum and elsewhere citing 'misleading' food pyramids as being a
major cause of nutritional issues in countries such as the UK and USA over the past few decades,
so does anyone have a link to a food pyramid which correctly depicts the ideal proportions of the
different food groups that we should be eating?
You don't really need a pyramid -



Restrict your diet to meat, fish, eggs, and green leafy vegetables, cooked from scratch. As your grandparents ancestors ate. Watch all the other weight gain factors that we blame - calories, macros, portion control, frequency of eating, time of eating, exercise all vanish.


APontus

1,935 posts

36 months

Monday 21st June 2021
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Didn't you get the memo? Meat bad. Only vegan good.

ruggedscotty

5,629 posts

210 months

Monday 21st June 2021
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GloverMart said:
I'm posting this before I've read any of the thread (which is probably unwise but anyway...) hehe

I'm 6'4" and always had issues with my weight since the age of 22. At school, I was a little chubby but sprang up in my late teens and was going well until I got a sales rep's job selling sweets. Always had some in the car = always eating and plumped up a lot. Got to Slimming World a few times and lost the same three stone fairly often but hovered around 19 stone.

Gradually over the past 20 years since I moved here, I've piled on the weight. Lost six stone in ten months back in 2015 (23 stone down to 17 stone) by going to the gym then put it all back on again. In 2019/20, I lost 5 stone in 10 months (23 stone to 18 stone), this time through walking but then lockdown came, I lost work, got a job that meant the walking stopped and ta-dah, I put that 5 stone on again inside twelve months.

So as I type, I'm 23 stone 6 and really beginning to feel every pound. It is psychological, I'll admit that but whether it's an illness or not, who knows. I think it possibly might be a by-product of something else; I've always struggled a bit with my mental health, I don't have much money and to be honest, buying the wrong stuff is often cheaper than buying what you should. I could binge eat for England, and often do, which I know is no good for me physically, mentally and health-wise but some days, I can't stop. I thought that maybe the threat of COVID might open my eyes up to the possibility of, well, you know, but somehow I avoided it, more luck than judgement.

Right, off to read the thread now. thumbup
been similar and it is hard...

yo-yo weight... but on it now and working to get it down. good incentive to do it aswell. so keep at it stick at it, it really is worth it.

The yo-yo comes from not adjusting your mind. You really need to stand back and think on what you are doing,

what is important is scales ! use them... pick three days and weight yourself on those days no excuses ! and ajust your exercise and intake to suit.

you have done it you know you can do it.... step back from the fridge and dont ya dare buy a ginsters...

MC Bodge

21,671 posts

176 months

Monday 21st June 2021
quotequote all
grumbledoak said:
You don't really need a pyramid -



Restrict your diet to meat, fish, eggs, and green leafy vegetables, cooked from scratch. As your grandparents ancestors ate. Watch all the other weight gain factors that we blame - calories, macros, portion control, frequency of eating, time of eating, exercise all vanish.
We broadly eat like that nowadays, although I do eat some grains alongside it - porridge, (sour dough seeded)bread, brown rice, albeit in much lower quantities than I did growing up and into my 20s. I've always been active, but probably have a lower body fat % than I did 20 years ago.

I maintain that regular snacking in addition to (carb-heavy or not)meals must make a big difference to many people's weight, though.

Edited by MC Bodge on Monday 21st June 08:55

anonymous-user

55 months

Monday 21st June 2021
quotequote all
Pupils are to be regularly weighed in primary schools from September to try to combat obesity:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15340240/primary-sch...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/chi...


grumbledoak

31,551 posts

234 months

Monday 21st June 2021
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MC Bodge said:
I maintain that regular snacking in addition to (carb-heavy or not)meals must make a big difference to many people's weight, though.
The snacks probably are the extra, empty calories that slowly make people fat. But why are they eating the snacks? The Romans conquered the known world on one meal a day.

david-j8694

483 posts

49 months

Monday 21st June 2021
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kambites said:
That, in itself, makes you far from normal.

But I stand by my idea that the vast majority of people with a BMI over over 25 are carrying too much body-fat.

Edited by kambites on Thursday 17th June 12:49
You're correct.

People hate on the BMI scale, because it tells them what they don't want to hear, but it is surprisingly accurate.

99% of the people scoring Obese on that scale will be obese for real. A lot of the people scoring Overweight won't look horrendously unhealthy, but they will very likely be carrying too much body fat. The small number of exceptions in the Overweight category who aren't actually overweight will be very lean people carrying exceptional amount of muscle mass - think rugby players. As an aside, before everyone with a BMI of 28 starts identifying as George North, it is very, very hard to get that big and that lean without "supplementing your income", so for the vast majority of people it's not a consideration.


Edited by david-j8694 on Monday 21st June 12:09

trowelhead

1,867 posts

122 months

Monday 21st June 2021
quotequote all
As to what we should do, the answer is 'return to a simpler way of life, cooking your own foods - in traditional oils, de- stressing and sleeping well, and watch out for carbohydrates that would give you insulin spikes and processed food which is likely to be rich in omega 6 rather than omega 3 oils'.

Here's why:

Article said:
Meet Leptin — A Hormone That Regulates Body Weight

Leptin is a hormone that is produced by your body’s fat cells (3Trusted Source).

It is often referred to as the “satiety hormone” or the “starvation hormone.”

Leptin’s primary target is in the brain — particularly an area called the hypothalamus.

Leptin is supposed to tell your brain that — when you have enough fat stored — you don’t need to eat and can burn calories at a normal rate (4).

It also has many other functions related to fertility, immunity and brain function (5).

However, leptin’s main role is long-term regulation of energy, including the number of calories you eat and expend, as well as how much fat you store in your body (6Trusted Source).

The leptin system evolved to keep humans from starving or overeating, both of which would have made you less likely to survive in the natural environment.

Today, leptin is very effective at keeping us from starving. But something is broken in the mechanism that is supposed to prevent us from overeating.

SUMMARY
Leptin is a hormone produced by the fat cells in your body. Its main role is to regulate fat storage and how many calories you eat and burn.

Impact on Your Brain

Leptin is produced by your body’s fat cells. The more body fat they carry, the more leptin they produce (7Trusted Source).

Leptin is carried by the bloodstream into your brain, where it sends a signal to the hypothalamus — the part that controls when and how much you eat (8Trusted Source).

The fat cells use leptin to tell your brain how much body fat they carry. High levels of leptin tell your brain that you have plenty of fat stored, while low levels tell your brain that fat stores are low and that you need to eat (9Trusted Source).

When you eat, your body fat goes up, leading your leptin levels to go up. Thus, you eat less and burn more.

Conversely, when you don’t eat, your body fat goes down, leading your leptin levels to drop. At that point, you eat more and burn less.

This kind of system is known as a negative feedback loop and similar to the control mechanisms for many different physiological functions, such as breathing, body temperature and blood pressure.

SUMMARY
The main function of leptin is to send a signal telling your brain how much fat is stored in your body’s fat cells.



What Is Leptin Resistance?

People who are obese have a lot of body fat in their fat cells.

Because fat cells produce leptin in proportion to their size, people who are obese also have very high levels of leptin (10Trusted Source).

Given the way leptin is supposed to work, many obese people should naturally limit their food intake. In other words, their brains should know that they have plenty of energy stored.

However, their leptin signaling may not work. While copious leptin may be present, the brain doesn’t see it (11Trusted Source).

This condition — known as leptin resistance — is now believed to be one of the main biological contributors to obesity (12Trusted Source).

When your brain doesn’t receive the leptin signal, it erroneously thinks that your body is starving — even though it has more than enough energy stored.

This makes your brain change its behavior in order to regain body fat (13Trusted Source, 14Trusted Source, 15Trusted Source). Your brain then encourages:

Eating more: Your brain thinks that you must eat in order to prevent starvation.
Reduced energy expenditure: In an effort to conserve energy, your brain decreases you energy levels and makes you burn fewer calories at rest.
Thus, eating more and exercising less is not the underlying cause of weight gain but rather a possible consequence of leptin resistance, a hormonal defect (16Trusted Source).

For most people who struggle with leptin resistance, willing yourself to overcome the leptin-driven starvation signal is next to impossible.

SUMMARY
People who are obese have high levels of leptin, but the leptin signal isn’t working due to a condition known as leptin resistance. Leptin resistance can cause hunger and reduced the number of calories you burn.

Impact on Dieting

Leptin resistance may be one reason that many diets fail to promote long-term weight loss (17Trusted Source, 18Trusted Source).

If you’re leptin-resistant, losing weight still reduces fat mass, which leads to a significant reduction in leptin levels — but your brain doesn’t necessarily reverse its leptin resistance.

When leptin goes down, this leads to hunger, increased appetite, reduced motivation to exercise and a decreased number of calories burned at rest (19Trusted Source, 20Trusted Source).

Your brain then thinks that you are starving and initiates various powerful mechanisms to regain that lost body fat.

This could be a main reason why so many people yo-yo diet — losing a significant amount of weight only to gain it back shortly thereafter.

SUMMARY
When people lose fat, leptin levels decrease significantly. Your brain interprets this as a starvation signal, changing your biology and behavior to make you regain the lost fat.

What Causes Leptin Resistance?

Several potential mechanisms behind leptin resistance have been identified.

These include (21Trusted Source, 22Trusted Source):

Inflammation: Inflammatory signaling in your hypothalamus is likely an important cause of leptin resistance in both animals and humans.
Free fatty acids: Having elevated free fatty acids in your bloodstream may increase fat metabolites in your brain and interfere with leptin signaling.
Having high leptin: Having elevated levels of leptin in the first place seems to cause leptin resistance.
Most of these factors are amplified by obesity, meaning that you could get trapped in a vicious cycle of gaining weight and becoming increasingly leptin resistant over time.

SUMMARY
Potential causes of leptin resistance include inflammation, elevated free fatty acids and high leptin levels. All three are elevated with obesity.

Can Leptin Resistance Be Reversed?

The best way to know if you are leptin resistant is to look in the mirror.

If you have a lot of body fat, especially in the belly area, then you are almost certainly leptin resistant.

It is not entirely clear how leptin resistance can be reversed, though theories abound.

Some researchers believe that reducing diet-induced inflammation may help reverse leptin resistance. Focusing on an overall healthy lifestyle is also likely to be an effective strategy.

There are several things you can do:

Avoid processed food: Highly processed foods may compromise the integrity of your gut and drive inflammation (23Trusted Source).
Eat soluble fiber: Eating soluble fiber can help improve your gut health and may protect against obesity (24Trusted Source).
Exercise: Physical activity may help reverse leptin resistance (25Trusted Source).
Sleep: Poor sleep is implicated in problems with leptin (26Trusted Source).
Lower your triglycerides: Having high triglycerides can prevent the transport of leptin from your blood to your brain. The best way to lower triglycerides is to reduce your carb intake (27Trusted Source, 28).
Eat protein: Eating plenty of protein can cause automatic weight loss, which may result from an improvement in leptin sensitivity (29Trusted Source).
Though there is no simple way to eliminate leptin resistance, you can make long-term lifestyle changes that may improve your quality of life.

SUMMARY
Though leptin resistance does seem reversible, it involves significant diet and lifestyle changes.

The Bottom Line
Leptin resistance may be one of the main reasons people gain weight and have such a hard time losing it.

Thus, obesity is usually not caused by greed, laziness or a lack of willpower.

Rather, there are strong biochemical and social forces at play as well. The Western diet in particular may be a leading driver of obesity.

If you’re concerned you may be resistant to leptin, there are several steps you can take to live a healthier lifestyle — and possibly improve or reverse your resistance.

Krupp88

591 posts

128 months

Monday 21st June 2021
quotequote all
The simple/easy issue has been mentioned a few time but just to add to it.

It’s easy (and quick) to consume 3 digestive biscuits, most people would underestimate the number of calories involved. Assuming the consumer of said biscuits then went for a moderately brisk run for 30 minutes they may work off the calories, however I expect most people would over estimate what has been worked off.

So even someone who is ‘active’ in many peoples eyes by going to the gym 5 days a week for 30mins a time will only work off the takeaway curry they had at the weekend.

Until people fully understand the true calorific load of what they eat (and look beyond the deceptive labelling which often quotes the calories of a certain weight or portion of the product) and the level of exercise required to burn it off they will continue in the same loop of self deception.

It really is amazing that our bodies are so efficient in burning energy.

Sticks.

8,780 posts

252 months

Monday 21st June 2021
quotequote all
MC Bodge said:
grumbledoak said:
You don't really need a pyramid -



Restrict your diet to meat, fish, eggs, and green leafy vegetables, cooked from scratch. As your grandparents ancestors ate. Watch all the other weight gain factors that we blame - calories, macros, portion control, frequency of eating, time of eating, exercise all vanish.
We broadly eat like that nowadays, although I do eat some grains alongside it - porridge, (sour dough seeded)bread, brown rice, albeit in much lower quantities than I did growing up and into my 20s. I've always been active, but probably have a lower body fat % than I did 20 years ago.

I maintain that regular snacking in addition to (carb-heavy or not)meals must make a big difference to many people's weight, though.

Edited by MC Bodge on Monday 21st June 08:55
The trouble is that grains etc are lumped in with 'bad carbs' very often whereas whole grains have some very specific health benefits.