Africa appeals
Discussion
Jazzy Jag said:
StevieBee said:
Storm drain in Tanzania
Are you seriously telling me that the residents of Tanzania were too thick or lazy to build a storm drain or ditch without the western aid? The drain runs for six miles through districts run by several different local authorities who have never had to tackle anything approaching what you and I might call 'civil engineering'.
The development money for this particular project came from Japan. That funded a UK engineering consultancy and Dutch firm to design and build it. Another British firm to design the tax system. And me, to develop the communications around the new tax and the behaviours needed to avoid the drain getting clogged with rubbish.
Japan gets their money back. British and Dutch firms get a nice project to work on. Countless lives are saved each year and immeasurably more are improved.
What's the problem with that?
Jazzy Jag said:
It infuriates me when the TV ad points out that the drinking water is contaminated by animal waste.
How monumentally stupid do you have to be to not spot that your water tastes of cow piss and your kids keep dying?
FFS in the medieval times every English village had a well. Who dug it?
Not the current band of virtue signalling idiots.
One could equally ask how monumentally stupid one has to be to not recognise that the water that tastes of cow piss might be the only water source available. How monumentally stupid do you have to be to not spot that your water tastes of cow piss and your kids keep dying?
FFS in the medieval times every English village had a well. Who dug it?
Not the current band of virtue signalling idiots.
Or how monumentally stupid one has to be to not know that the UK sits on abundant ground water due to the weather it gets and that in parts of Africa and elsewhere where similar conditions exist, they too drill wells.
If we were to rank levels of thickness, I'd suggest failure to understand these rather basic and obvious points places this way, way ahead of any perceived thickness of the people of Tanzania.
Thebaggers said:
EarlOfHazard said:
Happy to be corrected, but if registered as a charity, then there won't be any corporation tax to pay...20% up already...
Correct, it's just so wrong. If registered correctly corp tax and VAT exempt.Some charities may carry out taxable trading activity within the charity, albeit the common mitigation is to route it through a trading subsidiary as Countdown noted above..
With regard to VAT there is no automatic exemption for charities. Many of my charity clients are VAT registered.
StevieBee said:
One could equally ask how monumentally stupid one has to be to not recognise that the water that tastes of cow piss might be the only water source available.
Or how monumentally stupid one has to be to not know that the UK sits on abundant ground water due to the weather it gets and that in parts of Africa and elsewhere where similar conditions exist, they too drill wells.
If we were to rank levels of thickness, I'd suggest failure to understand these rather basic and obvious points places this way, way ahead of any perceived thickness of the people of Tanzania.
Perhaps preventing your cow from standing in your water supply would be a good start?Or how monumentally stupid one has to be to not know that the UK sits on abundant ground water due to the weather it gets and that in parts of Africa and elsewhere where similar conditions exist, they too drill wells.
If we were to rank levels of thickness, I'd suggest failure to understand these rather basic and obvious points places this way, way ahead of any perceived thickness of the people of Tanzania.
Jazzy Jag said:
Countdown said:
Jazzy Jag said:
Are you seriously telling me that the residents of Tanzania were too thick or lazy to build a storm drain or ditch without the western aid?
I'm not an expert in infrastructure but was the storm drain that the aid helped to build possible for people who live in poverty without any tools, equipment, or raw materials?No one is able to make rudimentary tools which mankind has made for thousands of years?
Better to just sit in flood water looking forlorn for the News camera man until someone else comes to sort my problem.
A storm drain is not as simple as digging a cutting. This is an area where you get two rainy seasons a year and when it rains, it's to biblical proportions. So you have to calculate flow rates, pressure points, position in release valves and construct a filtration lagoon to stop waste getting into the ocean.
You then need land which requires displacing people from their homes and businesses - and then finding or building them somewhere else to live.
Construction requires equipment that is not available in Tanzania. This isn't as simple as dropping in a few diggers. What if one of them throws a bearing? Who will fix it? Where will the spare parts come from?
It also requires materials that are also very difficult to get.
It also requires competency in the handling and use of those materials that doesn't exist locally.
Construction also adversely impacts the lives of something like 20,000 people that has to be mitigated.
And then you get to paying for it. And maintaining it.
Income is very very low (around $400 per person per year in this particular region). Only option is to impose a property tax on business premises. This has never been done before. So they need help in setting this up.
And then the management requires coordination and collaboration between seven different local authorities.
So as you can see, you need a bit more than a few shovels.
But.....
Those locals employed to work on the construction now have the skills, equipment and supply chain in place to do this themselves in the future. And because the local authorities now know how to collect taxes and apply proper governance, they too can provide the political support needed for self-implementing and self-funding similar projects.
And when they need to buy-in specialist help, where do they go? The nations that helped them first time around - including the UK.
StevieBee said:
Or how monumentally stupid one has to be to not know that the UK sits on abundant ground water due to the weather it gets and that in parts of Africa and elsewhere where similar conditions exist, they too drill wells.
And the wells they have dug are running dry, not just in Africa, but all over the world.https://earth.org/20-of-groundwater-wells-may-run-...
Overpopulation is the one common denominator to many of the worlds problems.
After working in Ghana, Cabinda, Uganda, Tanzania, Mozambique, Sudan, Nigeria, Congo and Namibia.
The ability is there, the technology is there but due to tribal reasons or people not being able to skim off the top means it doesn’t happen.
The people who do make things happen on a local level, not big charities have all my admiration as they do a fantastic job.
Dave!
The ability is there, the technology is there but due to tribal reasons or people not being able to skim off the top means it doesn’t happen.
The people who do make things happen on a local level, not big charities have all my admiration as they do a fantastic job.
Dave!
Howitzer said:
After working in Ghana, Cabinda, Uganda, Tanzania, Mozambique, Sudan, Nigeria, Congo and Namibia.
The ability is there, the technology is there but due to tribal reasons or people not being able to skim off the top means it doesn’t happen.
The people who do make things happen on a local level, not big charities have all my admiration as they do a fantastic job.
Dave!
If you're going to name check him, at least tell us what Dave actually did. The ability is there, the technology is there but due to tribal reasons or people not being able to skim off the top means it doesn’t happen.
The people who do make things happen on a local level, not big charities have all my admiration as they do a fantastic job.
Dave!
Unknown_User said:
I’m fully aware that corruption poses a significant obstacle in bettering the lives of those less fortunate than ourselves.
Have you seen how Bozza & his tory chums handed out COVID contracts out to their mates?
Anyone who has been involved in government procurement will know exactly why "Bozza and his tory chums" did what they did the way they did it. If they'd done it the proper and expected way (the way all those that don't like them would have wanted) we'd still be 2 years away from having the first jab. What they have managed to achieve in the time slots they did is remarkable when you understand what's required, from testing, jabbing, distribution of jabs and so on.Have you seen how Bozza & his tory chums handed out COVID contracts out to their mates?
StevieBee said:
Jazzy Jag said:
Countdown said:
Jazzy Jag said:
Are you seriously telling me that the residents of Tanzania were too thick or lazy to build a storm drain or ditch without the western aid?
I'm not an expert in infrastructure but was the storm drain that the aid helped to build possible for people who live in poverty without any tools, equipment, or raw materials?No one is able to make rudimentary tools which mankind has made for thousands of years?
Better to just sit in flood water looking forlorn for the News camera man until someone else comes to sort my problem.
A storm drain is not as simple as digging a cutting. This is an area where you get two rainy seasons a year and when it rains, it's to biblical proportions. So you have to calculate flow rates, pressure points, position in release valves and construct a filtration lagoon to stop waste getting into the ocean.
You then need land which requires displacing people from their homes and businesses - and then finding or building them somewhere else to live.
Construction requires equipment that is not available in Tanzania. This isn't as simple as dropping in a few diggers. What if one of them throws a bearing? Who will fix it? Where will the spare parts come from?
It also requires materials that are also very difficult to get.
It also requires competency in the handling and use of those materials that doesn't exist locally.
Construction also adversely impacts the lives of something like 20,000 people that has to be mitigated.
And then you get to paying for it. And maintaining it.
Income is very very low (around $400 per person per year in this particular region). Only option is to impose a property tax on business premises. This has never been done before. So they need help in setting this up.
And then the management requires coordination and collaboration between seven different local authorities.
So as you can see, you need a bit more than a few shovels.
But.....
Those locals employed to work on the construction now have the skills, equipment and supply chain in place to do this themselves in the future. And because the local authorities now know how to collect taxes and apply proper governance, they too can provide the political support needed for self-implementing and self-funding similar projects.
And when they need to buy-in specialist help, where do they go? The nations that helped them first time around - including the UK.
Ash_ said:
Anyone who has been involved in government procurement will know exactly why "Bozza and his tory chums" did what they did the way they did it. If they'd done it the proper and expected way (the way all those that don't like them would have wanted) we'd still be 2 years away from having the first jab. What they have managed to achieve in the time slots they did is remarkable when you understand what's required, from testing, jabbing, distribution of jabs and so on.
There are various processes that are compliant with PCR2015 that the Government could have used that would have allowed contracts to be awarded promptly. The general guidelines are set out in Managing Public Money. What the guidelines aren't great at coping with is somebody saying "I want to award the money to X (who happens to be a good mate) and I want it doing asap". Both of those factors create a risk of money being wasted because the checks in place to ensure that the Buyer gets what they need are circumvented.A huge amount of money has been pissed up the wall by Bojo (and not for the first time). However he has the uncanny ability to waffle his way out of things and not be held to account.
Ash_ said:
StevieBee said:
Jazzy Jag said:
Countdown said:
Jazzy Jag said:
Are you seriously telling me that the residents of Tanzania were too thick or lazy to build a storm drain or ditch without the western aid?
I'm not an expert in infrastructure but was the storm drain that the aid helped to build possible for people who live in poverty without any tools, equipment, or raw materials?No one is able to make rudimentary tools which mankind has made for thousands of years?
Better to just sit in flood water looking forlorn for the News camera man until someone else comes to sort my problem.
A storm drain is not as simple as digging a cutting. This is an area where you get two rainy seasons a year and when it rains, it's to biblical proportions. So you have to calculate flow rates, pressure points, position in release valves and construct a filtration lagoon to stop waste getting into the ocean.
You then need land which requires displacing people from their homes and businesses - and then finding or building them somewhere else to live.
Construction requires equipment that is not available in Tanzania. This isn't as simple as dropping in a few diggers. What if one of them throws a bearing? Who will fix it? Where will the spare parts come from?
It also requires materials that are also very difficult to get.
It also requires competency in the handling and use of those materials that doesn't exist locally.
Construction also adversely impacts the lives of something like 20,000 people that has to be mitigated.
And then you get to paying for it. And maintaining it.
Income is very very low (around $400 per person per year in this particular region). Only option is to impose a property tax on business premises. This has never been done before. So they need help in setting this up.
And then the management requires coordination and collaboration between seven different local authorities.
So as you can see, you need a bit more than a few shovels.
But.....
Those locals employed to work on the construction now have the skills, equipment and supply chain in place to do this themselves in the future. And because the local authorities now know how to collect taxes and apply proper governance, they too can provide the political support needed for self-implementing and self-funding similar projects.
And when they need to buy-in specialist help, where do they go? The nations that helped them first time around - including the UK.
Countdown said:
Ash_ said:
Anyone who has been involved in government procurement will know exactly why "Bozza and his tory chums" did what they did the way they did it. If they'd done it the proper and expected way (the way all those that don't like them would have wanted) we'd still be 2 years away from having the first jab. What they have managed to achieve in the time slots they did is remarkable when you understand what's required, from testing, jabbing, distribution of jabs and so on.
There are various processes that are compliant with PCR2015 that the Government could have used that would have allowed contracts to be awarded promptly. The general guidelines are set out in Managing Public Money. What the guidelines aren't great at coping with is somebody saying "I want to award the money to X (who happens to be a good mate) and I want it doing asap". Both of those factors create a risk of money being wasted because the checks in place to ensure that the Buyer gets what they need are circumvented.A huge amount of money has been pissed up the wall by Bojo (and not for the first time). However he has the uncanny ability to waffle his way out of things and not be held to account.
A real-life example if you're interested as it is interesting and I'll pose you a question at the end. This is a live and ongoing case so I'm going skirt around some of the revealing detail.
So you have this town in Africa in the middle of an abundant agricultural land producing an everyday product the west consumes at very high levels. Population of around 20,000. It should be a very well-off town. But it isn't - life expectancy is 40, everyone is sick. The national government couldn't give a toss. The problem is a lack of sanitation. Open sewers, pit latrines that are broken and over flowing, human s
t swilling through the streets.The Mayor reaches out to the international community for assistance. Work Bank arranges a package of support using funding sourced from private donors (the companies that might buy the local produce), and the governments of two European countries and the US. $100m (via soft loan) which is used to design and build a sewerage system and sewage treatment plant. A project team is assembled, located in the town and off they go.
Everything gets done and they just need to build two filtration ponds to enable the switch on - but each time they submit the application for building permits, the application is rejected. This goes on for two years. All they need is to build these ponds and the town's problems are solved but each time they apply they get knocked back. Quite ridiculous but.... 'this is Africa'.
One day, the project office receives a visitor saying he is a government consultant - he negotiates contracts between private sector and local governments. For a consulting fee of $30,000 he claims to be able to resolve the application issue.
They do a bit of digging and establish that this chap is in fact the son of the Mayor.
And that is how corruption is done.
So the question is, what would you do?
Knowing that this is corruption, would you a) say, f
k it, let's pay the dude and give these people the life they deserve and get the job done?or b) say f
k off but know this would lead to the project never ever getting completed with no chance of the funders seeing any return?The Project Team chose 'a' and two of the lead officers are currently awaiting a court hearing in Washington as a result.
As I understand it, the filtration ponds did actually get built.
StevieBee said:
Jazzy Jag said:
Countdown said:
Jazzy Jag said:
Are you seriously telling me that the residents of Tanzania were too thick or lazy to build a storm drain or ditch without the western aid?
I'm not an expert in infrastructure but was the storm drain that the aid helped to build possible for people who live in poverty without any tools, equipment, or raw materials?No one is able to make rudimentary tools which mankind has made for thousands of years?
Better to just sit in flood water looking forlorn for the News camera man until someone else comes to sort my problem.
A storm drain is not as simple as digging a cutting. This is an area where you get two rainy seasons a year and when it rains, it's to biblical proportions. So you have to calculate flow rates, pressure points, position in release valves and construct a filtration lagoon to stop waste getting into the ocean.
You then need land which requires displacing people from their homes and businesses - and then finding or building them somewhere else to live.
Construction requires equipment that is not available in Tanzania. This isn't as simple as dropping in a few diggers. What if one of them throws a bearing? Who will fix it? Where will the spare parts come from?
It also requires materials that are also very difficult to get.
It also requires competency in the handling and use of those materials that doesn't exist locally.
Construction also adversely impacts the lives of something like 20,000 people that has to be mitigated.
And then you get to paying for it. And maintaining it.
Income is very very low (around $400 per person per year in this particular region). Only option is to impose a property tax on business premises. This has never been done before. So they need help in setting this up.
And then the management requires coordination and collaboration between seven different local authorities.
So as you can see, you need a bit more than a few shovels.
But.....
Those locals employed to work on the construction now have the skills, equipment and supply chain in place to do this themselves in the future. And because the local authorities now know how to collect taxes and apply proper governance, they too can provide the political support needed for self-implementing and self-funding similar projects.
And when they need to buy-in specialist help, where do they go? The nations that helped them first time around - including the UK.
t.It does make me wonder how many people on here are so knowledgeable of Africa when their only exposure is having watched Comic Relief or seen Oxfam adverts.
Back of topic: there are many African development academics that are against or skeptical of Western aid and very critical of “poverty porn”.
Not Africa, but those Yemen adverts really make my piss boil. The UK Government and BAE Systems continue to sell weapons to Saudi Arabia who blast the fk out of some poor village in Yemen and then they want the British public to donate a fiver to provide food and shelter for the people whose lives they have destroyed.
k out of some poor village in Yemen and then they want the British public to donate a fiver to provide food and shelter for the people whose lives they have destroyed.Kawasicki said:
Regards the post above. I would make public (in that town) the corruption and not pay the corrupt ass one penny.
That would be the logical solution but Africa is sadly often lacking logic.The town know this goes on but have no power to intervene to stop it. The national government lacks the wherewithal or capacity to do anything. In many parts of Africa and elsewhere around the world corruption has become normalised.
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