Discussion
I would disagree that everyone who has faith or religion has it because they need something to believe in - there cases where people don't want to believe but end up doing so anyway, through whatever reason. But yes, there are certainly some people who use it to help them through the day etc. Again, there are lots of religious people who hold up their hand and say we don't know everything - in the same way there are athiests who although they say that we don't know everything, but we know enough to know there is "certainly" no God - which science cannot prove one way or the other.
PD9 said:
Every time the topic of religion pops up I like to throw this Carl Sagan quote in.
"We succeeded in taking that picture [from deep space (4 billion miles away)], and, if you look at it, you see a dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever lived, lived out their lives. The aggregate of all our joys and sufferings, thousands of confident religions, ideologies and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilizations, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every hopeful child, every mother and father, every inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every superstar, every supreme leader, every saint and sinner in the history of our species, lived there on a mote of dust, suspended in a sunbeam.
The earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that in glory and in triumph they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of the dot on scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner of the dot. How frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds. Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity -- in all this vastness -- there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves. It is up to us. It's been said that astronomy is a humbling, and I might add, a character-building experience. To my mind, there is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly and compassionately with one another and to preserve and cherish that pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known."
God's do not exist.
That image could be interpreted the other way - that we're nothing in this universe, and so it doesn't really matter what we do, because it will have no consequence in the big picture."We succeeded in taking that picture [from deep space (4 billion miles away)], and, if you look at it, you see a dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever lived, lived out their lives. The aggregate of all our joys and sufferings, thousands of confident religions, ideologies and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilizations, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every hopeful child, every mother and father, every inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every superstar, every supreme leader, every saint and sinner in the history of our species, lived there on a mote of dust, suspended in a sunbeam.
The earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that in glory and in triumph they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of the dot on scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner of the dot. How frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds. Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity -- in all this vastness -- there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves. It is up to us. It's been said that astronomy is a humbling, and I might add, a character-building experience. To my mind, there is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly and compassionately with one another and to preserve and cherish that pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known."
God's do not exist.
As long as nobody tries to cut my head off with a hunting knife because I don't beleive in his imaginary friend I'm cool with the religious types doing what they want to do, just don't inflict yourself or your views on me because I have my own and they roughly translate to; f
k bhes, make money.
k bhes, make money.
jt racing said:
The whole religious arguement eventually back up on having faith,to believe what you are told, and the fear of the consiquences not having it.
If you have faith you believe blindly, regardless of what happens. And some people need that to get through the day.
+1If you have faith you believe blindly, regardless of what happens. And some people need that to get through the day.
Given the large proportion of the planet's population that does believe in one religion or another in spite of a total lack of compelling evidence, and the fact that numerous different religions have developed independently throughout history, I think it's fair to say that there is something well embedded in the human psyche that makes us look for more meaning than just "we are born and then we die".
I'd like to think that as we become more scientifically aware that religion would die out and it's easy to believe that some countries and cultures are less developed than ours and so have stronger beliefs, but then you realise that the USA, our partner in world politics and western democracy-enforcement, reports only 15% of the population not believing in any kind of religion!
Personally I don't get the whole self-delusion that I think religion is but I can see, and almost envy, the reassurance that some true believers get from "knowing" about a greater meaning and everlasting life etc.
Edited by t11ner on Sunday 11th July 07:22
IforB said:
jbi said:
most scientists will admit we know next to nothing about the universe.
While you might struggle with the concept of religion, it's also foolish to assume all of the answers have been found.
Find me an explanation for the "cambrian explosion" for example.
Err. Science understands that it doesn't understand everything. Religous nutters like to think they know all of the answers.While you might struggle with the concept of religion, it's also foolish to assume all of the answers have been found.
Find me an explanation for the "cambrian explosion" for example.
I prefer to listen to people who say "I don't know, but I'm trying to find it out" rather than people who say "I'm right, everyone else is wrong" without having any of that pesky evidence to back up their assertions.
Perhaps alien life planted the seeds on earth, because the evidence we have, the actual physical records we know about all point to a sudden appearence.
Would it not be logical therefore to conclude that life in it's modern form appeared very quickly on this earth?
Of course keep looking for more evidence, don't just say that's it then. There is going to be more out there, but judging by the international consistency of the geological evidence. I think the answer might be more uncomfortable then most people want to believe.
It was them aliens you see
jmorgan said:
How many planets do we have for a comparison? One I would say. So how do we know this is not normal?
we have evidence for the continuation of the cosmos... to a pointwe still don't know what happened to the missing 70% of the universes mass.
We can only guess at the moment
jbi said:
IforB said:
jbi said:
most scientists will admit we know next to nothing about the universe.
While you might struggle with the concept of religion, it's also foolish to assume all of the answers have been found.
Find me an explanation for the "cambrian explosion" for example.
Err. Science understands that it doesn't understand everything. Religous nutters like to think they know all of the answers.While you might struggle with the concept of religion, it's also foolish to assume all of the answers have been found.
Find me an explanation for the "cambrian explosion" for example.
I prefer to listen to people who say "I don't know, but I'm trying to find it out" rather than people who say "I'm right, everyone else is wrong" without having any of that pesky evidence to back up their assertions.
Perhaps alien life planted the seeds on earth, because the evidence we have, the actual physical records we know about all point to a sudden appearence.
Would it not be logical therefore to conclude that life in it's modern form appeared very quickly on this earth?
Of course keep looking for more evidence, don't just say that's it then. There is going to be more out there, but judging by the international consistency of the geological evidence. I think the answer might be more uncomfortable then most people want to believe.
It was them aliens you see
I'm not getting into a row over this as based on your last few posts, you go into the category marked "possible troll or total nutter."
IforB said:
jbi said:
IforB said:
jbi said:
most scientists will admit we know next to nothing about the universe.
While you might struggle with the concept of religion, it's also foolish to assume all of the answers have been found.
Find me an explanation for the "cambrian explosion" for example.
Err. Science understands that it doesn't understand everything. Religous nutters like to think they know all of the answers.While you might struggle with the concept of religion, it's also foolish to assume all of the answers have been found.
Find me an explanation for the "cambrian explosion" for example.
I prefer to listen to people who say "I don't know, but I'm trying to find it out" rather than people who say "I'm right, everyone else is wrong" without having any of that pesky evidence to back up their assertions.
Perhaps alien life planted the seeds on earth, because the evidence we have, the actual physical records we know about all point to a sudden appearence.
Would it not be logical therefore to conclude that life in it's modern form appeared very quickly on this earth?
Of course keep looking for more evidence, don't just say that's it then. There is going to be more out there, but judging by the international consistency of the geological evidence. I think the answer might be more uncomfortable then most people want to believe.
It was them aliens you see
I'm not getting into a row over this as based on your last few posts, you go into the category marked "possible troll or total nutter."
What i'm trying to say is have a little respect for people and their beliefs, because your own might not be as solid as you like to think.
Religion is science! What about theology? If you've got an 'ology you're a scientist, innit?
Religion (which I consider different to faith) provides some people with a framework for living their lives, but I'd suggest that it's reach is further than a lot of people would care to admit. England is a Christian country: how many people on PH (as a cross-section of a reasonable, intelligent portion of society) would agree that murder, stealing and shagging your mate's bird are wrong? At a fundamental level, religion influences our beliefs and our attitudes as a society - whether you go to church or not.
Personally, I see organised religion (of any denomination) as a a crutch for some and a guide for others. I have no interest in living my life according to a book of old stories which have been subjected to thousands of years of Chinese whispers, but I respect the position of those that do.
Religion (which I consider different to faith) provides some people with a framework for living their lives, but I'd suggest that it's reach is further than a lot of people would care to admit. England is a Christian country: how many people on PH (as a cross-section of a reasonable, intelligent portion of society) would agree that murder, stealing and shagging your mate's bird are wrong? At a fundamental level, religion influences our beliefs and our attitudes as a society - whether you go to church or not.
Personally, I see organised religion (of any denomination) as a a crutch for some and a guide for others. I have no interest in living my life according to a book of old stories which have been subjected to thousands of years of Chinese whispers, but I respect the position of those that do.
jbi said:
IforB said:
jbi said:
IforB said:
jbi said:
most scientists will admit we know next to nothing about the universe.
While you might struggle with the concept of religion, it's also foolish to assume all of the answers have been found.
Find me an explanation for the "cambrian explosion" for example.
Err. Science understands that it doesn't understand everything. Religous nutters like to think they know all of the answers.While you might struggle with the concept of religion, it's also foolish to assume all of the answers have been found.
Find me an explanation for the "cambrian explosion" for example.
I prefer to listen to people who say "I don't know, but I'm trying to find it out" rather than people who say "I'm right, everyone else is wrong" without having any of that pesky evidence to back up their assertions.
Perhaps alien life planted the seeds on earth, because the evidence we have, the actual physical records we know about all point to a sudden appearence.
Would it not be logical therefore to conclude that life in it's modern form appeared very quickly on this earth?
Of course keep looking for more evidence, don't just say that's it then. There is going to be more out there, but judging by the international consistency of the geological evidence. I think the answer might be more uncomfortable then most people want to believe.
It was them aliens you see
I'm not getting into a row over this as based on your last few posts, you go into the category marked "possible troll or total nutter."
What i'm trying to say is have a little respect for people and their beliefs, because your own might not be as solid as you like to think.
jt racing said:
The whole religious arguement eventually back up on having faith,to believe what you are told, and the fear of the consiquences not having it.
If you have faith you believe blindly, regardless of what happens. And some people need that to get through the day.
If you don't have faith, then its all bks.
My choice.... God walked away a long time ago.
I don't think god has been around for anyone for a number of years, anyone seen him recently? Perhaps he died or just moved to a quieter planet for his retirement. If you have faith you believe blindly, regardless of what happens. And some people need that to get through the day.
If you don't have faith, then its all b
ks.My choice.... God walked away a long time ago.
ShadownINja said:
ThePainter said:
Penny-lope said:
ShadownINja said:
ThePainter said:
Nothing ever good comes out of topics like this one. Can we ban this topic?
It's been at least 3 weeks since we had one. People need to get it out of their system. I suppose someone could just link to every argument and counter-argument via the search.k fest? Much more enjoyable 
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