Keto diet - anyone else?

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Discussion

AAz01

Original Poster:

99 posts

91 months

Monday 14th August 2017
quotequote all
After thinking about it for a while and reading a couple of books (I don't know why there isn't a simple "beginners guide" - if this works for me I'm going to write one)... I've begun on the keto diet.

The purpose is to lose weight. I've got about 50kg to lose, so a fairly hefty amount!

My problem is a pretty shocking addiction to sugar. I have on a few occasions managed to cut out all sweets/cakes/sugary crap for as long as a year at a time... But every time, I inevitably reach the point where I just have a tiny little taste (eg. birthday party... "just one slice of cake") and it all comes crashing down after that - the binge that follows over the next few months always leaves me heavier than ever.
I don't especially crave other carby food like pasta/potatoes/bread, it's really just sugar.

Many things I've read about the keto diet say that it will replace my carb cravings with fat cravings, which is something I would greatly welcome. I love pretty much all food and don't think I'll struggle to find what to eat with keto.

My observations so far after only 3 days... The first couple of days my sugar cravings were ridiculous. I could literally think of nothing else for 48 hours and was in a constant bad mood.
Woke up today feeling a lot better. I'd still love a big home-made fruit salad and a McDonalds milkshake.... But the craving isn't strong enough to put me in a bad mood. Hopefully it'll only get better from here...

grumbledoak

24,086 posts

174 months

Monday 14th August 2017
quotequote all
Sugar is very addictive. You can expect about three weeks of proper withdrawal, in my experience.

Push on through and it works. I feel much better without it. Remember to eat. Eat proper sized meals. Don't snack.

Best of luck.

PlayFair

200 posts

61 months

Monday 14th August 2017
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I have realised in the last few months I have an addiction to sugar.

ANY diet / food plan I put myself on, I need at least one sugar in my coffee. Or a 15g bag of haribo a day, just to sort me out.

'zero' drinks/sweetner don't work for me either.

I know its going to be tough but I need to get myself off them if I need to lose weight.

ill have a look into the diet above ^ and see if I can have a crack at it.

Good luck with your journey!

egomeister

4,850 posts

204 months

Monday 14th August 2017
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I've played around with it (solely to empathise / take the piss out of a mate who was doing it and struggling). Biggest issue for me was not the sugar but the vast choice of food that you have to ignore in order to do it, which was particularly awkward as I was working away and could only take breakfast and lunch in the work canteen, and dinner from the local supermarket without access to cooking facilities.

Biggest saviours for me (in terms of something decent to snack on) were pecan nuts and high (80%+) cocoa chocolate. Obviously you can't go overboard on either, but they are decent treats. Other nuts are better but plain almonds are soul destroying to eat, and pecans a good compromise.

AAz01

Original Poster:

99 posts

91 months

Monday 14th August 2017
quotequote all
Thanks all.

The limited choice of food will be an issue, especially when we're having dinner at friends/family houses. But I'm determined to be strict until I'm a lot closer to my weight goal.

One of the things I'm already finding difficult (and I believe is quite different from the original low-carb diets) is that protein needs to be moderated. A lot of low-carb foods are high in protein, so it's becoming a bit of a balancing act.

On the plus side, over the last 3 days I've found that I'm eating a lot less as I'm less hungry... I know this is supposed to be one of the effects of a keto diet, but I didn't expect it so soon. I've been tracking my eating on the MyFitnessPal app and the last couple of days I've only eaten around 1,200cal per day... Less than half my normal consumption... And I honestly haven't felt hungry.
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KamSandhu44

259 posts

109 months

Monday 14th August 2017
quotequote all
AAz01 said:
Thanks all.

The limited choice of food will be an issue, especially when we're having dinner at friends/family houses. But I'm determined to be strict until I'm a lot closer to my weight goal.

One of the things I'm already finding difficult (and I believe is quite different from the original low-carb diets) is that protein needs to be moderated. A lot of low-carb foods are high in protein, so it's becoming a bit of a balancing act.

On the plus side, over the last 3 days I've found that I'm eating a lot less as I'm less hungry... I know this is supposed to be one of the effects of a keto diet, but I didn't expect it so soon. I've been tracking my eating on the MyFitnessPal app and the last couple of days I've only eaten around 1,200cal per day... Less than half my normal consumption... And I honestly haven't felt hungry.
1200 cals!!!!

Are you male?

Even for a female 1200cals is the bare minimum.

You're going to waste away and probably slow your metabolism right down. That won't be sustainable!

AAz01

Original Poster:

99 posts

91 months

Monday 14th August 2017
quotequote all
KamSandhu44 said:
1200 cals!!!!

Are you male?

Even for a female 1200cals is the bare minimum.

You're going to waste away and probably slow your metabolism right down. That won't be sustainable!
Yes male, and my target is around double that as I'm pretty big/heavy and moderately active... I honestly haven't been very hungry since starting this. I used to get probably half of my daily calories from sugary foods, so maybe it's just taking me a while to adjust. 1200 certainly isn't what I'm aiming for!

grumbledoak

24,086 posts

174 months

Monday 14th August 2017
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yes "Remember to eat". It is quite a change.

mcelliott

5,217 posts

122 months

Monday 14th August 2017
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Did it a few years ago........it got me super shredded, left me feeling weak, and just wasn't sustainable for my needs.

AAz01

Original Poster:

99 posts

91 months

Monday 14th August 2017
quotequote all
mcelliott said:
Did it a few years ago........it got me super shredded, left me feeling weak, and just wasn't sustainable for my needs.
I've seen some people say similar to you, and others say they felt a lot healthier and fitter. Maybe it doesn't suit everyone.

TBH I feel pretty weak as things are, carrying an extra 50kg+ around everywhere. If it helps to lighten the load, then I can address any weakness later.

Pica-Pica

4,916 posts

25 months

Wednesday 16th August 2017
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PlayFair said:
I have realised in the last few months I have an addiction to sugar.

ANY diet / food plan I put myself on, I need at least one sugar in my coffee. Or a 15g bag of haribo a day, just to sort me out.

'zero' drinks/sweetner don't work for me either.

I know its going to be tough but I need to get myself off them if I need to lose weight.

ill have a look into the diet above ^ and see if I can have a crack at it.

Good luck with your journey!
Any sugar in coffee, and you are drinking sugar - not coffee. I gave up sugar in tea and coffee decades ago, it will open up the whole range of various teas and coffees available.

Simon.

197 posts

162 months

Thursday 17th August 2017
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Get some ketostix to test whether you're in ketosis.

There are people who live a keto lifestyle all year around but I generally couldn't keep it up long term.

For me the best 'diet' / lifestyle was actually eating paleo / primal, there are some questions on what is / isn't paleo / primal (ie milk) but the general consensus now is that full fat milk is allowed on the paleo /primal lifestyle.

Just a reminder that you can drop yourself out of keto very quickly if you consume too many carbs and it takes a while to get back into it, also be careful about the keto headaches, it's just your body detoxing but it can get quite painful in the first couple of days.

TartanPaint

1,277 posts

80 months

Friday 18th August 2017
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I'm perma-keto. The cravings will pass.

Ketostix are misleading, and not worth obsessing over. Just track your macros instead.

Inches are more important than kgs. Get on the scales once a month, but get the tape measure out once a week! This is double true if you are working out as well and building muscle. The scales lie. Some plateaus can last weeks. Just keep going!

Lots of good resources at https://reddit.com/r/keto (see the FAQ and links in the sidebar).

Lots of amazing recipes at https://dietdoctor.com. Sign up for the free trial to get dozens more that you can print off. I'd have failed without meal planning like this in the early days, but after a few months I no longer have to think about shopping or cooking. It's just normal and instinctive, and not at all inconvenient.

I feel it's important to really, really understand WHY keto works, and why low-carb isn't just another fad diet. For one thing, you're making an informed choice, not just following the herd. For another, knowing what the effects of what you eat are, it's much easier not to screw up. Try the books "Why we get fat" and "The case against sugar" by Gary Taubes, or get the executive summary from him here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7E7IbEktEr0

and here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6vpFV6Wkl4


There's also a film called Fathead (Director's Cut), which is probably the lowest budget, crappiest production you'll ever see, but the facts are pretty darned solid, so it's still worth watching to the end. it's on Amazon Prime for free and is only a few quid on youtube.

Anyone who is feeling tired on a keto diet is doing something wrong. Do it properly and the energy source is as limitless as your fat reserves. The answer to tiredness is almost always "have yet another drink of water". If that doesn't work, remember that hydration is about electrolytes too, so pop a supplement of Magnesium and Potassium. You'll be as right as rain in half an hour.

If you're tired and you've ruled out proper hydration/electrolytes, you've probably knocked yourself out of ketosis. I often feel a bit "off" when that happens. Watch the above vids and you'll see why that makes sense. If you think you've knocked yourself out of ketosos, Check your ingredients lists and find the culprit, usually a hidden sweetener that isn't carb-free. Maltose etc. Sugar free does NOT mean carb free! stick to the low GI sweeteners at the bottom of this list:

http://www.sugar-and-sweetener-guide.com/glycemic-...

There's a lot to learn, and a lot of it is YMMV, so you need to READ, READ, READ. Experiment and see what works for you. Just ask if you need any advice.

Don't cut calories too low too quickly.

And don't worry about going over your protein "limits". Go over, not under. You have to go a LONG way over to break ketosis.

Good luck!

TartanPaint

1,277 posts

80 months

Friday 18th August 2017
quotequote all
Simon. said:
For me the best 'diet' / lifestyle was actually eating paleo / primal, there are some questions on what is / isn't paleo / primal (ie milk) but the general consensus now is that full fat milk is allowed on the paleo /primal lifestyle.
Understand what sugar (glucose, lactose, fructose, any sugar) does to your body. Understand how high GI foods cause insulin resistance over time. Then you'll see that keto/paleo/primal/LCHF all deal with this problem in some way, which is why they work. The actual diet you choose doesn't matter so much as the "F*ck you, sugar!" lifestyle change. You'll lose more weight on keto because it's stricter than paleo, but deciding what is/isn't paleo is just arguing about the diet/label. If you understand what full fat milk does to your body, you can make a choice and either way it won't be "wrong".

Double cream is better than full fat milk, which is better than semi or skimmed milk. They all have lactose, but the more fat you mix it with, the more gradual your insulin response. That's the key to not becoming insulin resistant, and not storing fat. That, and moderation. smile

AAz01

Original Poster:

99 posts

91 months

Friday 18th August 2017
quotequote all
Thanks for all the advice thumbup

At the moment I'm not using any tests to measure whether I'm in ketosis. I've looked into it and there are too many inconsistencies reported with the urine strips. Blood tests work well but cost a small fortune to do long-term. Breath tests may or may not be good, I'm struggling to find enough info on them.

I'm eating under 25g of carbs a day, just to be certain. Maybe once I'm half way to my goal I'll do blood tests for a few weeks and try to work out what my actual threshold is.

I am pretty sure I'm in ketosis and have been since day 3. I can taste the "keto breath" and all the other signs are there.

I read Keto Clarity by Jimmy Moore before starting, as well as browsing through /r/keto. Good resources, but honestly it still feels like quite a new thing and I completely understand why many people see it as a fad. It's not good enough to publish a list of "keto friendly doctors", if the majority of doctors still don't really understand it and will try to put people off it.
My take on it is that from what I've seen so far, it's almost certainly safe to do and very likely to be a more natural diet for humans. But even if it's not the healthiest diet, I am in no doubt whatsoever that it's healthier than staying at my current weight for another few years.

The thing that got me onto keto in the first place is looking at peoples progress pics on reddit. Almost every time someone posted up pics where they start bigger than me and end up staying thin for more than a year, they did it on keto and they said that they tried and failed traditional "healthy eating" diets, as I have.

Halb

47,422 posts

124 months

Friday 18th August 2017
quotequote all
First off, Well done you for seeing how sugar mad and st the UK diet is.

I've done keto...not again for me, hated it, took my carbs to under 30g a day, it became unbearable after 2 weeks. I switched to IF and never looked back, though I'm not as strict as I used to be. I found ketostix to be not that reliable.
The only good 'diet', is the one you can adhere to in your life

This guy has lots of good vids on nutrition relating to keto and fasting.

Ketogenic Diet vs. Low Carb Diet: Thomas DeLauer

https://youtu.be/gnH-BfIdo_M

Keto Diet vs. Paleo: Which is Better for You: Thomas DeLauer

https://youtu.be/OdDYwN84pSk

Ketogenic Diet: Top 3 Ketosis Tips for Results: Thomas DeLauer

https://youtu.be/duKLvz0627Q

Ketosis: The Top 3 Veggies for Low Carb Diets: Thomas DeLauer

https://youtu.be/a6UDSQlo06Q


TartanPaint

1,277 posts

80 months

Friday 18th August 2017
quotequote all
Good stuff, you're well on your way then. Do try to watch those youtube vids if you can, it's worth a few hours.



TartanPaint

1,277 posts

80 months

Friday 18th August 2017
quotequote all
Halb said:
I switched to IF and never looked back
Again, fasting works because it's the same underlying mechanism as carb restriction. It's all about lowering and stabilising your insulin levels (by not taking on sugars in any form). You can do that by not eating sugary treats, or not eating any carbs, or by not eating anything at all.

I'm sure you know that already, but thought I'd mention it for anyone browsing this thread. Again, I emphasise the importance of understanding WHY these different methods work, and then you can choose any one that you like... keto, paleo, fasting, whatever.

Calza

1,428 posts

56 months

Saturday 19th August 2017
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I swear by keto diets for fat loss. I couldn't imagine them being long term sustainable though unless you had a very specific reason.

I used one called Dave Palmubo's protein sparing ketosis diet - basically high in protein. It was amazing; full of energy, no hunger or cravings, taste buds came alive and I got a cheat meal every week! I think for the average weight person this diet is superb. I've had several people run it with my guidance and it has always delivered.

As I get lower body fats I run a cyclical ketosis diet, specified by Lyle Mcdonald (UD 2.0). Not a beginner diet and not fun, but supremely effective.

I have to wonder though, if you are trying to lose that much - do you really need a specified diet? Cutting back portion sizes a little and making smarter ingredient choices would probably see 30kg easily (I've been there).

Don't forget cheat meals are normally beneficial. Meals not days. Yes you might not need the first one for a few weeks. But mentally and physically you will need them on a weekly / fortnightly basis eventually - don't forget them.

Edited by Calza on Saturday 19th August 00:11

grumbledoak

24,086 posts

174 months

Saturday 19th August 2017
quotequote all
Calza said:
I have to wonder though, if you are trying to lose that much - do you really need a specified diet? Cutting back portion sizes a little and making smarter ingredient choices would probably see 30kg easily (I've been there).
Need? No. But most fat people (*) are fat because they consume too much, and they do that because they are sugar addicted; they struggle to consume less because of the cravings. They need to get off the sugar so they can break the snack cycle. Keto, Atkins, Paleo, and even old fashioned "no carbs 'til marbs" all cut out the same macros. Keto just describes it in those terms and aims for it more explicity.




* face the facts, then make your plans.
"