Discussion
sparkyhx said:
doesn't help the cause of sufferers either way, things like this just give ammunition to the deniers and minimisers
Indeed.Hugo Stiglitz said:
I caught a snapshot of this. One thing I noticed (again a snapshot) was a very generic and open ended question was asked. 100% of the population would answer yes to that.
I did wonder that. They seem to have missed out the bits where he needs to articulate impairment, and it's the impairment that matters.https://www.forbes.com/sites/drnancydoyle/2023/05/...
A response from Prof. Nancy Doyle to the Panorama episode.
A response from Prof. Nancy Doyle to the Panorama episode.
MikeGTi said:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/drnancydoyle/2023/05/...
A response from Prof. Nancy Doyle to the Panorama episode.
I think if you have it. You know that you have it. A response from Prof. Nancy Doyle to the Panorama episode.
I was waiting over 5yrs for a NHS diagnosis. I'd like to know more detail on how the presenter managed to get his and did he jump a queue to help him complete the documentary.
I was told by my GP that I'd be forever sliding backwards as (I won't go into what I feel about some who use the NHS) "there's high demand".
I really don't like the BBCs style of journalism. Yes the system is prone to private clinics giving paying xustomers positive news- after all if they didn't affirm what the customer is paying for it creates mither for them.
I imagine autism diagnosis services also have mass churn diagnosis. At £1,500 a pop it isn't cheap either.
Like many psychiatric 'disorders' its very easy to 'fake' ADHD or Autism if you know what they are looking for - which is great if you want to do a documentary about how bad the diagnosis is at diagnosing people when they dont have it.............but that doesnt take into account of why would somebody go to the expense and inconvenience of getting diagnosis, when they knew they weren't/strong suspicion ..........unless you were making a TV program.
Its not like there are huge benefits of it, exactly the opposite in fact.
Its not like there are huge benefits of it, exactly the opposite in fact.
Hugo Stiglitz said:
MikeGTi said:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/drnancydoyle/2023/05/...
A response from Prof. Nancy Doyle to the Panorama episode.
I'd like to know more detail on how the presenter managed to get his and did he jump a queue to help him complete the documentary. A response from Prof. Nancy Doyle to the Panorama episode.
Edited by sparkyhx on Monday 15th May 23:11
I’m watching it now, the people/service he went to are like a dodgy backstreet business. The NHS diagnosis of course is medically and psychiatrically sound. ADHD can only really be diagnosed by excluding numerous other psychiatric and even physiological conditions, because the symptoms/traits are such universal experiences (differing in extent and impact, not in existence or otherwise).,
The psychologist in the film who produced the report for the psychiatrist was a joke.
The programme is dealing with an important issue, which is the lack of access to treatment for people who need it. People are going to these placed because they are distressed and in need (of something). They don’t have access to the support or mental health services they need through the NHS. These dodgy practices are filling that gap but they’re doing it unethically and in a medically incompetent way.
The problem with the programme and the attention and angle they’ve taken - from what I came see so far, or from the articles its makers have written - is that it doesn’t properly draw a clear distinction between who is in the wrong here - it simply needs a clear statement that its patients who are being failed.
Perhaps the programme is mostly in the right, and the dodgy practices that are (clearly) in the wrong. But the attention it gives is worrying because I’ve disclosed my ADHD to some people. I am confident in the diagnosis I had and it was rigorous, like the NHS one in the programme. But I’m left wondering whether the people who know about me and ADHD are now wondering if it’s all made up… including people at work. It’s f
king st tbh. The programme makers haven’t put enough effort into protecting people who do have ADHD from stigma generated by people drawing those conclusions.
The psychologist in the film who produced the report for the psychiatrist was a joke.
The programme is dealing with an important issue, which is the lack of access to treatment for people who need it. People are going to these placed because they are distressed and in need (of something). They don’t have access to the support or mental health services they need through the NHS. These dodgy practices are filling that gap but they’re doing it unethically and in a medically incompetent way.
The problem with the programme and the attention and angle they’ve taken - from what I came see so far, or from the articles its makers have written - is that it doesn’t properly draw a clear distinction between who is in the wrong here - it simply needs a clear statement that its patients who are being failed.
Perhaps the programme is mostly in the right, and the dodgy practices that are (clearly) in the wrong. But the attention it gives is worrying because I’ve disclosed my ADHD to some people. I am confident in the diagnosis I had and it was rigorous, like the NHS one in the programme. But I’m left wondering whether the people who know about me and ADHD are now wondering if it’s all made up… including people at work. It’s f
king st tbh. The programme makers haven’t put enough effort into protecting people who do have ADHD from stigma generated by people drawing those conclusions. I finally managed to see my GP. I explained my situation and also my previous bad experience with the ADHD consultant in 2016.
Overall she came across as very understanding and empathetic. Asked me to do a 5-minute questionnaire and said she would put me on the waiting list (1-2 years). I queried about going private and she discouraged me, as I would be put on the same waiting list if I wanted to move to the NHS after getting the initial diagnosis as well as the high costs.
In the meantime, she suggested trying IAPT till my appointment.
Not sure how I feel tbh. I knew about the waiting times but deep down I hoping for something more, especially due to my previous history of trying to get a diagnosis and the bad experience I had with the consultant.
Overall she came across as very understanding and empathetic. Asked me to do a 5-minute questionnaire and said she would put me on the waiting list (1-2 years). I queried about going private and she discouraged me, as I would be put on the same waiting list if I wanted to move to the NHS after getting the initial diagnosis as well as the high costs.
In the meantime, she suggested trying IAPT till my appointment.
Not sure how I feel tbh. I knew about the waiting times but deep down I hoping for something more, especially due to my previous history of trying to get a diagnosis and the bad experience I had with the consultant.
Edited by Motoring12345 on Tuesday 16th May 10:02
Motoring12345 said:
I finally managed to see my GP. I explained my situation and also my previous bad experience with the ADHD consultant in 2016.
Overall she came across as very understanding and empathetic. Asked me to do a 5-minute questionnaire and said she would put me on the waiting list (1-2 years). I queried about going private and she discouraged me, as I would be put on the same waiting list if I wanted to move to the NHS after getting the initial diagnosis as well as the high costs.
In the meantime, she suggested trying IAPT till my appointment.
Not sure how I feel tbh. I knew about the waiting times but deep down I hoping for something more, especially due to my previous history of trying to get a diagnosis and the bad experience I had with the consultant.
Did she mean this in relation to shared care with your GP, or access to wider NHS MH services?Overall she came across as very understanding and empathetic. Asked me to do a 5-minute questionnaire and said she would put me on the waiting list (1-2 years). I queried about going private and she discouraged me, as I would be put on the same waiting list if I wanted to move to the NHS after getting the initial diagnosis as well as the high costs.
In the meantime, she suggested trying IAPT till my appointment.
Not sure how I feel tbh. I knew about the waiting times but deep down I hoping for something more, especially due to my previous history of trying to get a diagnosis and the bad experience I had with the consultant.
Edited by Motoring12345 on Tuesday 16th May 10:02
With regards to shared care, my GP agreed to it in principal around 7 working days after my private diagnosis. Although I haven't explored anything with wider NHS services yet.
MikeGTi said:
Motoring12345 said:
I finally managed to see my GP. I explained my situation and also my previous bad experience with the ADHD consultant in 2016.
Overall she came across as very understanding and empathetic. Asked me to do a 5-minute questionnaire and said she would put me on the waiting list (1-2 years). I queried about going private and she discouraged me, as I would be put on the same waiting list if I wanted to move to the NHS after getting the initial diagnosis as well as the high costs.
In the meantime, she suggested trying IAPT till my appointment.
Not sure how I feel tbh. I knew about the waiting times but deep down I hoping for something more, especially due to my previous history of trying to get a diagnosis and the bad experience I had with the consultant.
Did she mean this in relation to shared care with your GP, or access to wider NHS MH services?Overall she came across as very understanding and empathetic. Asked me to do a 5-minute questionnaire and said she would put me on the waiting list (1-2 years). I queried about going private and she discouraged me, as I would be put on the same waiting list if I wanted to move to the NHS after getting the initial diagnosis as well as the high costs.
In the meantime, she suggested trying IAPT till my appointment.
Not sure how I feel tbh. I knew about the waiting times but deep down I hoping for something more, especially due to my previous history of trying to get a diagnosis and the bad experience I had with the consultant.
Edited by Motoring12345 on Tuesday 16th May 10:02
With regards to shared care, my GP agreed to it in principal around 7 working days after my private diagnosis. Although I haven't explored anything with wider NHS services yet.
From reading this thread it seems a lot will come down to the NHS healthcare group you're under. Some seem to have it better than others.
GiantCardboardPlato said:
I’m watching it now, the people/service he went to are like a dodgy backstreet business. The NHS diagnosis of course is medically and psychiatrically sound. ADHD can only really be diagnosed by excluding numerous other psychiatric and even physiological conditions, because the symptoms/traits are such universal experiences (differing in extent and impact, not in existence or otherwise).,
Our daughter (14) is currently undergoing assessment through the NHS neurodiversity pathway. Was surprised that based mainly on a QB test right at the start of the pathway they were quite openly, and have diagnosed her with ADHD. Surely a more comprehensive assessment is required from all phases of the assessment first? Over a quick phone call based on the QB test results they suggested that she should be put on medication (even though assessment process only just started) but reverted and agreed after input from us that medication would not improve any of the behaviours she has which appear at least to us to be more related to autism. Given the above it's easy to see how some people could end-up inappropriately on medication, and this is the NHS pathway.
GiantCardboardPlato said:
I’m watching it now, the people/service he went to are like a dodgy backstreet business. The NHS diagnosis of course is medically and psychiatrically sound. ADHD can only really be diagnosed by excluding numerous other psychiatric and even physiological conditions, because the symptoms/traits are such universal experiences (differing in extent and impact, not in existence or otherwise).,
The psychologist in the film who produced the report for the psychiatrist was a joke.
The programme is dealing with an important issue, which is the lack of access to treatment for people who need it. People are going to these placed because they are distressed and in need (of something). They don’t have access to the support or mental health services they need through the NHS. These dodgy practices are filling that gap but they’re doing it unethically and in a medically incompetent way.
The problem with the programme and the attention and angle they’ve taken - from what I came see so far, or from the articles its makers have written - is that it doesn’t properly draw a clear distinction between who is in the wrong here - it simply needs a clear statement that its patients who are being failed.
Perhaps the programme is mostly in the right, and the dodgy practices that are (clearly) in the wrong. But the attention it gives is worrying because I’ve disclosed my ADHD to some people. I am confident in the diagnosis I had and it was rigorous, like the NHS one in the programme. But I’m left wondering whether the people who know about me and ADHD are now wondering if it’s all made up… including people at work. It’s fking st tbh. The programme makers haven’t put enough effort into protecting people who do have ADHD from stigma generated by people drawing those conclusions.
I haven't watched it, but had my assessment (not from one of the entities named, but similar) a couple of weeks ago. Prior to the assessment I was given 3 or 4 questionnaires to complete, and the assessment itself was nearly 2 hours of questions etc, after which I was given a diagnosis of mild ADD (inattentive).The psychologist in the film who produced the report for the psychiatrist was a joke.
The programme is dealing with an important issue, which is the lack of access to treatment for people who need it. People are going to these placed because they are distressed and in need (of something). They don’t have access to the support or mental health services they need through the NHS. These dodgy practices are filling that gap but they’re doing it unethically and in a medically incompetent way.
The problem with the programme and the attention and angle they’ve taken - from what I came see so far, or from the articles its makers have written - is that it doesn’t properly draw a clear distinction between who is in the wrong here - it simply needs a clear statement that its patients who are being failed.
Perhaps the programme is mostly in the right, and the dodgy practices that are (clearly) in the wrong. But the attention it gives is worrying because I’ve disclosed my ADHD to some people. I am confident in the diagnosis I had and it was rigorous, like the NHS one in the programme. But I’m left wondering whether the people who know about me and ADHD are now wondering if it’s all made up… including people at work. It’s f
king st tbh. The programme makers haven’t put enough effort into protecting people who do have ADHD from stigma generated by people drawing those conclusions. robt350c said:
Given the above it's easy to see how some people could end-up inappropriately on medication, and this is the NHS pathway.
I think the reasoning usually given for medicating early is that it's low risk but has almost instant effect, although obviously that relies on a proper diagnosis that takes into account any comorbidities being in place.From someone that's recently started on Elvanse, I was surprised and how fast the medication worked and the range of symptoms improved, especially having tried coaching previously which had no effect. But, I can see your concern if the behaviours of concern are related to ASD, although there is apparently a lot of crossover between ADHD and ASD.
I don't know if/why anybody would pretend to have ADHD tendencies.
Atypical neurological traits are probably difficult to diagnose or categorise, though.
I don't understand how ADHD works, but I know that my own difficulties are real, even if I don't necessarily fit the classic "naughty"/wild stereotype at first meeting.
My forefathers have displayed similar traits.
Had it not been a problem for me for decades, I would not have considered looking into it.
I do function at work a bit better (I can maintain my focus) with the high dose stimulation (it doesn't make me hyper...) medication. Realistically, though, it will never make me become the organised, efficient, performer, or even the fairly normal one for an educated, knowledgeable person that I would like to be or wish I was. Routine is difficult and requires a lot of effort. Unfortunately, responding well to unfolding situations is not far from being distractable.
I have not tried Elvanse. It would be interesting, but the side-effects don't sound great.
Atypical neurological traits are probably difficult to diagnose or categorise, though.
I don't understand how ADHD works, but I know that my own difficulties are real, even if I don't necessarily fit the classic "naughty"/wild stereotype at first meeting.
My forefathers have displayed similar traits.
Had it not been a problem for me for decades, I would not have considered looking into it.
I do function at work a bit better (I can maintain my focus) with the high dose stimulation (it doesn't make me hyper...) medication. Realistically, though, it will never make me become the organised, efficient, performer, or even the fairly normal one for an educated, knowledgeable person that I would like to be or wish I was. Routine is difficult and requires a lot of effort. Unfortunately, responding well to unfolding situations is not far from being distractable.
I have not tried Elvanse. It would be interesting, but the side-effects don't sound great.
Edited by Woodrow Wilson on Friday 19th May 06:59
I think it was January last year I went to the GP as I suspected I had ADHD. I used to go through intense periods of being interested in something and it's all I would think about for around two weeks. At work I'd knock everything else on the head so I could focus on what it was I was interested in. If I wasn't interested in something, I found it really difficult to get myself motivated to do something. It drove me up the wall, because I'd start loads of different projects as my interests changed, but I'd never actually get around to finishing anything. I was 42 and was starting to feel down because I felt like I'd wasted years of my life not being able to focus or finish what I'd started. I was also very irritable.
The GP referred me to a local mental health place. I went for an appointment and they said it was depression and gave me 100mg Sertraline to take each day. There's a couple of things;
The first is, I don't think it's depression, or at least I don't think depression is the cause. I have a lovely house, nice cars, two health kids, and an awesome wife. I'm self employed, I never wake up dreading going to work, I earn a decent wage, and I don't have debts or any other worries (although debts have been an issue when I was much younger). I don't see what's to be depressed about as there must be plenty of people out their who'd love the life I have.
The second problem is, that while Sertraline has tamed my moods, I find it's killed any motivation or interest in almost everything. Before I'd have these periods of intense interest in something that would last a couple of weeks, now I simply don't have the interest in anything. I used to love cleaning the car, and every summer I'd dig the mountain bike out and go through a phase of trying to lose some weight. Since taking Sertraline I clean the car far less than I used to, and I simply cannot motivate myself to go out on the bike. I used to go to an off-road model RC club, but since taking these meds, I've lost all interest in it. I also seem to eat far more than I used to and I've put on weight.
I'm going back to my GP, because this just feels like Sertraline simply gets me through each day and tames my moods, it's drained any thoughts of making goals and it's caused me to lose any interest in the things I used to love doing, even the stuff I used to get hyper focused about.
The GP referred me to a local mental health place. I went for an appointment and they said it was depression and gave me 100mg Sertraline to take each day. There's a couple of things;
The first is, I don't think it's depression, or at least I don't think depression is the cause. I have a lovely house, nice cars, two health kids, and an awesome wife. I'm self employed, I never wake up dreading going to work, I earn a decent wage, and I don't have debts or any other worries (although debts have been an issue when I was much younger). I don't see what's to be depressed about as there must be plenty of people out their who'd love the life I have.
The second problem is, that while Sertraline has tamed my moods, I find it's killed any motivation or interest in almost everything. Before I'd have these periods of intense interest in something that would last a couple of weeks, now I simply don't have the interest in anything. I used to love cleaning the car, and every summer I'd dig the mountain bike out and go through a phase of trying to lose some weight. Since taking Sertraline I clean the car far less than I used to, and I simply cannot motivate myself to go out on the bike. I used to go to an off-road model RC club, but since taking these meds, I've lost all interest in it. I also seem to eat far more than I used to and I've put on weight.
I'm going back to my GP, because this just feels like Sertraline simply gets me through each day and tames my moods, it's drained any thoughts of making goals and it's caused me to lose any interest in the things I used to love doing, even the stuff I used to get hyper focused about.
TheBinarySheep said:
I think it was January last year I went to the GP as I suspected I had ADHD. I used to go through intense periods of being interested in something and it's all I would think about for around two weeks. At work I'd knock everything else on the head so I could focus on what it was I was interested in. If I wasn't interested in something, I found it really difficult to get myself motivated to do something. It drove me up the wall, because I'd start loads of different projects as my interests changed, but I'd never actually get around to finishing anything. I was 42 and was starting to feel down because I felt like I'd wasted years of my life not being able to focus or finish what I'd started. I was also very irritable.
The GP referred me to a local mental health place. I went for an appointment and they said it was depression and gave me 100mg Sertraline to take each day. There's a couple of things;
The first is, I don't think it's depression, or at least I don't think depression is the cause. I have a lovely house, nice cars, two health kids, and an awesome wife. I'm self employed, I never wake up dreading going to work, I earn a decent wage, and I don't have debts or any other worries (although debts have been an issue when I was much younger). I don't see what's to be depressed about as there must be plenty of people out their who'd love the life I have.
The second problem is, that while Sertraline has tamed my moods, I find it's killed any motivation or interest in almost everything. Before I'd have these periods of intense interest in something that would last a couple of weeks, now I simply don't have the interest in anything. I used to love cleaning the car, and every summer I'd dig the mountain bike out and go through a phase of trying to lose some weight. Since taking Sertraline I clean the car far less than I used to, and I simply cannot motivate myself to go out on the bike. I used to go to an off-road model RC club, but since taking these meds, I've lost all interest in it. I also seem to eat far more than I used to and I've put on weight.
I'm going back to my GP, because this just feels like Sertraline simply gets me through each day and tames my moods, it's drained any thoughts of making goals and it's caused me to lose any interest in the things I used to love doing, even the stuff I used to get hyper focused about.
The more I read about Drs and ADHD, the more i wonder what is known about it in the industry and if there's no financial incentive for them like there probably is for depression meds (that may not be the case at all though)The GP referred me to a local mental health place. I went for an appointment and they said it was depression and gave me 100mg Sertraline to take each day. There's a couple of things;
The first is, I don't think it's depression, or at least I don't think depression is the cause. I have a lovely house, nice cars, two health kids, and an awesome wife. I'm self employed, I never wake up dreading going to work, I earn a decent wage, and I don't have debts or any other worries (although debts have been an issue when I was much younger). I don't see what's to be depressed about as there must be plenty of people out their who'd love the life I have.
The second problem is, that while Sertraline has tamed my moods, I find it's killed any motivation or interest in almost everything. Before I'd have these periods of intense interest in something that would last a couple of weeks, now I simply don't have the interest in anything. I used to love cleaning the car, and every summer I'd dig the mountain bike out and go through a phase of trying to lose some weight. Since taking Sertraline I clean the car far less than I used to, and I simply cannot motivate myself to go out on the bike. I used to go to an off-road model RC club, but since taking these meds, I've lost all interest in it. I also seem to eat far more than I used to and I've put on weight.
I'm going back to my GP, because this just feels like Sertraline simply gets me through each day and tames my moods, it's drained any thoughts of making goals and it's caused me to lose any interest in the things I used to love doing, even the stuff I used to get hyper focused about.
Depression can be a symptom and just because you have all those things, doesn't mean you can't be depressed. I'm in a similar position, but when I've been low I've literally felt nothing. The children do something cute. I know it's cute. But I just didn't feel an emotion. Empty.
It does sound like you need to stop the sertraline as it doesn't sound to give any real benefit to you and possibly go private if you think it's adhd and want to get medicated to see if it makes a difference.
robt350c said:
GiantCardboardPlato said:
I’m watching it now, the people/service he went to are like a dodgy backstreet business. The NHS diagnosis of course is medically and psychiatrically sound. ADHD can only really be diagnosed by excluding numerous other psychiatric and even physiological conditions, because the symptoms/traits are such universal experiences (differing in extent and impact, not in existence or otherwise).,
Our daughter (14) is currently undergoing assessment through the NHS neurodiversity pathway. Was surprised that based mainly on a QB test right at the start of the pathway they were quite openly, and have diagnosed her with ADHD. Surely a more comprehensive assessment is required from all phases of the assessment first? Over a quick phone call based on the QB test results they suggested that she should be put on medication (even though assessment process only just started) but reverted and agreed after input from us that medication would not improve any of the behaviours she has which appear at least to us to be more related to autism. Given the above it's easy to see how some people could end-up inappropriately on medication, and this is the NHS pathway.
meds were not even discussed until her report was compiled and we'd chatted around what the options were. i am currently not on meds and don't plan to be either for better or worse.
Woodrow Wilson said:
I don't know if/why anybody would pretend to have ADHD tendencies.
to get ritalin or similar. cos they're wonder focus / exam passing drugs innit. the-norseman said:
Missus got her NHS diagnoses yesterday as having ADHD, her lad is also being tested, his signs are a lot stronger than hers. They are also testing him for autism which he has very strong signs off as well, We have since realised her dad shows real strong signs of both as well.
I wish I had a £1 for every time I've heard that. I could probably go for a meal by now. Gassing Station | Health Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff