Does anyone know an Anti Covid vaxxer?

Does anyone know an Anti Covid vaxxer?

Author
Discussion

paulguitar

10,970 posts

77 months

Wednesday 3rd March
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Harrison Bergeron said:
Heavily skewed toward the old and fat(And those that know PaulGuitar)
Nothing to do with me! whistle

gregs656

6,480 posts

145 months

Wednesday 3rd March
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monkfish1 said:
Im not really interested in long covid, getting covid, feeling unwell etc. Thats all temporary and will likely pass (except a small number of cases maybe) and thats just life. Ive been ill before, and doubtless will be again. Im only concerned about dying or suffering permanently something which would change my life.
We have more evidence for permanent/life changing effects from having COVID than we do from having the vaccine.

If that genuinely is your only concern, the vaccine is a no-brainer.

V6 Pushfit

16,198 posts

74 months

Wednesday 3rd March
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TwigtheWonderkid said:
All this talk about a low death rate, we have to remember that the death toll is artificially low because of lockdowns, masks, etc, and limiting the amount of infections, or at least spreading them out over a greater timescale. Everyone who has become seriously ill has managed to get hospital treatment, been found a place in intensive care if required, and has had the opportunity to recover. And the majority have.

Had we not done that, hundreds of thousands of people who have recovered in hospital would not have been able to get treated in hospital, and would have died.
And I don’t call 3 in 100 a low death rate either. That’s the worldwide figure but we stopped giving recovered figures 10 months ago but it looks to me that a +ve test = min 10% chance of ending up in hospital. Hospital = 30% chance of not making it. X(?)% chance of long Covid.

shost

Original Poster:

810 posts

107 months

Wednesday 3rd March
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PrinceRupert said:
My sister is an ICU nurse and is refusing the vaccine.

Moron
What are her reasons? Presumably she has cared for COVID patients? That’s hugely disturbing.

As with Drillers claim, a dentist to refusing it. Working in close proximity to someone’s airway and not wanting the vaccine is... unusual.

I think if I were a patient I would want to know those caring for me are free of disease that could cause harm. It’s part of GMC guidance to be vaccinated against common serious communicable diseases. Though the flu vaccine uptake is not strictly enforced usually we are checked for Hep B and HIV, at least when starting a new job. I expect COVID vaccine status will be added to that.

V6 Pushfit

16,198 posts

74 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
shost said:
What are her reasons? Presumably she has cared for COVID patients? That’s hugely disturbing.

As with Drillers claim, a dentist to refusing it. Working in close proximity to someone’s airway and not wanting the vaccine is... unusual.

I think if I were a patient I would want to know those caring for me are free of disease that could cause harm. It’s part of GMC guidance to be vaccinated against common serious communicable diseases. Though the flu vaccine uptake is not strictly enforced usually we are checked for Hep B and HIV, at least when starting a new job. I expect COVID vaccine status will be added to that.
The more vaccinations the more the anti vaxxers can rest easy. It’s like standing at the back when they’re choosing football sides in a cold day hoping they’ll get to 22 before you.

PrinceRupert

10,187 posts

49 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
shost said:
PrinceRupert said:
My sister is an ICU nurse and is refusing the vaccine.

Moron
What are her reasons? Presumably she has cared for COVID patients? That’s hugely disturbing.

As with Drillers claim, a dentist to refusing it. Working in close proximity to someone’s airway and not wanting the vaccine is... unusual.

I think if I were a patient I would want to know those caring for me are free of disease that could cause harm. It’s part of GMC guidance to be vaccinated against common serious communicable diseases. Though the flu vaccine uptake is not strictly enforced usually we are checked for Hep B and HIV, at least when starting a new job. I expect COVID vaccine status will be added to that.
Yes she has cared for many COVID patients on ventilators etc. Her reasoning is she is of child bearing age and it could be the next thalidomide. No amount of logic will persuade her this is ridiculous. She also makes the argument that if everyone else is vaccinated it doesn't matter if she is. She said she would only get it if she would otherwise be sacked.

Harrison Bergeron

4,036 posts

186 months

Thursday 4th March
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V6 Pushfit said:
And I don’t call 3 in 100 a low death rate either. That’s the worldwide figure but we stopped giving recovered figures 10 months ago but it looks to me that a +ve test = min 10% chance of ending up in hospital. Hospital = 30% chance of not making it. X(?)% chance of long Covid.
Because we know exactly how many have had it in this country as we’ve always been testing 500k per day since January 2020.....oh wait no.

And of the confirmed cases you’re saying all 400k are there because of THE VIRUS OF UNKNOWN ORIGIN even when they catch it in hospital after admission

shost

Original Poster:

810 posts

107 months

Thursday 4th March
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PrinceRupert said:
Yes she has cared for many COVID patients on ventilators etc. Her reasoning is she is of child bearing age and it could be the next thalidomide. No amount of logic will persuade her this is ridiculous. She also makes the argument that if everyone else is vaccinated it doesn't matter if she is. She said she would only get it if she would otherwise be sacked.
That’s very disappointing. I’m sure you will have guided her to the various resources to show this isn’t the case. Does she have a cohort of friends with the same opinion?

The reporting in the press recently regarding healthcare workers and ‘low’ vaccine uptake is potentially misleading see the link which tackles that issue. (https://twitter.com/rupert_pearse/status/1367217644710027269?s=21)

On a separate issue It would seem many non-vaxxers would be offended by separate areas for them.

What about having it the other way? Would you be offended if those who had vaccine were allowed to sit in separate areas away from those who hadn’t? I don’t mean a passport, but in commercial settings as before. If I was taking my elderly parents out to a meal I might prefer if they were seated in a vaccinated area. Or even opt to an area if you can show you have a negative test result and vaccinated.

It’s slightly off topic but it flips round the second class citizen argument to a “elitist” system.


grumbledoak

28,505 posts

197 months

Thursday 4th March
quotequote all
shost said:
That’s very disappointing. I’m sure you will have guided her to the various resources to show this isn’t the case. Does she have a cohort of friends with the same opinion?

The reporting in the press recently regarding healthcare workers and ‘low’ vaccine uptake is potentially misleading see the link which tackles that issue. (https://twitter.com/rupert_pearse/status/1367217644710027269?s=21)

On a separate issue It would seem many non-vaxxers would be offended by separate areas for them.

What about having it the other way? Would you be offended if those who had vaccine were allowed to sit in separate areas away from those who hadn’t? I don’t mean a passport, but in commercial settings as before. If I was taking my elderly parents out to a meal I might prefer if they were seated in a vaccinated area. Or even opt to an area if you can show you have a negative test result and vaccinated.

It’s slightly off topic but it flips round the second class citizen argument to a “elitist” system.
Just issue the yellow badges already.


Uggers

2,095 posts

175 months

Thursday 4th March
quotequote all
shost said:
On a separate issue It would seem many non-vaxxers would be offended by separate areas for them.

What about having it the other way? Would you be offended if those who had vaccine were allowed to sit in separate areas away from those who hadn’t? I don’t mean a passport, but in commercial settings as before. If I was taking my elderly parents out to a meal I might prefer if they were seated in a vaccinated area. Or even opt to an area if you can show you have a negative test result and vaccinated.

It’s slightly off topic but it flips round the second class citizen argument to a “elitist” system.
Don't you find the very words you are writing somewhat disturbing? Could you have imagined a year ago you proposing something like this?

You can flip it on its head but it's segregation both ways.

First it's segregation in public settings. How do we improve on that?
We could segregate these people who either refuse the vaccine or cannot take it for medical reasons into housing estates?
So they can be amongst their own you understand? Give them their own shops, cafes etc?

How about a wall around them? Keep them together and that way the vaccinated can enjoy the public spaces without fear?

I cannot believe I'm even having to read about ideas like this.






AlvinSultana

664 posts

113 months

Thursday 4th March
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Uggers said:
Don't you find the very words you are writing somewhat disturbing? Could you have imagined a year ago you proposing something like this?

You can flip it on its head but it's segregation both ways.

First it's segregation in public settings. How do we improve on that?
We could segregate these people who either refuse the vaccine or cannot take it for medical reasons into housing estates?
So they can be amongst their own you understand? Give them their own shops, cafes etc?

How about a wall around them? Keep them together and that way the vaccinated can enjoy the public spaces without fear?

I cannot believe I'm even having to read about ideas like this.
He didn't propose it.

He used it to show how silly the position of the anti vax loons actually is.

i.e. we want you lot to take the vaccine first because we will then get the protection without the risk, but we are against anything to do with the vaccinated being treated more favourably.



Prof Prolapse

15,519 posts

154 months

Thursday 4th March
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Discrimination is perfectly legal and always has been, it does however need to be justifiable.

We have a global pandemic, as I have said multiple times the "excess deaths" in our country alone exceed 120,000 souls. Globally this simply must be in the millions. Containment has failed and continues to do so. So the only known solution is now our vaccine program, which is robust and proven.

There is no question it could become "justifiable" to discriminate under a duty of care to the rest of society, but we are a long way from this. Vaccine uptake is high, most people understand it's value, and those that don't I hope would reconsider.

I absolutely respect someone's right to refuse a vaccine, that is not in any doubt. But the rest of society also have a right to protect ourselves and our families, I still believe this passport non-sense will be unnecessary.







Uggers

2,095 posts

175 months

Thursday 4th March
quotequote all
AlvinSultana said:
He didn't propose it.

He used it to show how silly the position of the anti vax loons actually is.

i.e. we want you lot to take the vaccine first because we will then get the protection without the risk, but we are against anything to do with the vaccinated being treated more favourably.
Before you start with the 'you lot' I'm not anti vax. But it's interesting how you immediately jump on that.

But I guess there will be individual lines drawn at just how far you go. Some here seem to like the sound of injecting newborns, it doesn't sit well with me.

Also the cherry picking of figures like Pushfit V6 is doing, doesn't do anything to convince younger people that it's required. The statistic show who are vulnerable and who have been vaccinated.

But I'm bowing out now because I don't have the view that 100% vaccination is the answer. I'll leave you all to agree amongst yourselves instead.



HappyMidget

5,896 posts

79 months

Thursday 4th March
quotequote all
Uggers said:
AlvinSultana said:
He didn't propose it.

He used it to show how silly the position of the anti vax loons actually is.

i.e. we want you lot to take the vaccine first because we will then get the protection without the risk, but we are against anything to do with the vaccinated being treated more favourably.
Before you start with the 'you lot' I'm not anti vax. But it's interesting how you immediately jump on that.

But I guess there will be individual lines drawn at just how far you go. Some here seem to like the sound of injecting newborns, it doesn't sit well with me.

Also the cherry picking of figures like Pushfit V6 is doing, doesn't do anything to convince younger people that it's required. The statistic show who are vulnerable and who have been vaccinated.

But I'm bowing out now because I don't have the view that 100% vaccination is the answer. I'll leave you all to agree amongst yourselves instead.
I didn;t read it as him specifying you specifically, I read it as him specifying anti vax people in general smile

otolith

43,960 posts

168 months

Thursday 4th March
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You know the way that people classically prefix some outpouring of racism with "I'm not racist but..."?

Seems that nobody wants to own being antivax despite holding antivax positions.

V6 Pushfit

16,198 posts

74 months

Thursday 4th March
quotequote all
Uggers said:
Before you start with the 'you lot' I'm not anti vax. But it's interesting how you immediately jump on that.

But I guess there will be individual lines drawn at just how far you go. Some here seem to like the sound of injecting newborns, it doesn't sit well with me.

Also the cherry picking of figures like Pushfit V6 is doing, doesn't do anything to convince younger people that it's required. The statistic show who are vulnerable and who have been vaccinated.

But I'm bowing out now because I don't have the view that 100% vaccination is the answer. I'll leave you all to agree amongst yourselves instead.
I haven’t cherry picked figures. If you look at the worldwide rates we are waaay worse, and the risk of dying once infected is all there.

I’m more concerned at younger people being swayed to refuse the vaccine in the basis of ludicrous made-up garbage from the realms of the anti vax fantasy.
No doubt the anti vax lobby will become some sort of new woke minority group, a race even, with government funding and counselling in case there is any perceived discrimination.

shost

Original Poster:

810 posts

107 months

Thursday 4th March
quotequote all
Uggers said:
shost said:
On a separate issue It would seem many non-vaxxers would be offended by separate areas for them.

What about having it the other way? Would you be offended if those who had vaccine were allowed to sit in separate areas away from those who hadn’t? I don’t mean a passport, but in commercial settings as before. If I was taking my elderly parents out to a meal I might prefer if they were seated in a vaccinated area. Or even opt to an area if you can show you have a negative test result and vaccinated.

It’s slightly off topic but it flips round the second class citizen argument to a “elitist” system.
Don't you find the very words you are writing somewhat disturbing? Could you have imagined a year ago you proposing something like this?

You can flip it on its head but it's segregation both ways.

First it's segregation in public settings. How do we improve on that?
We could segregate these people who either refuse the vaccine or cannot take it for medical reasons into housing estates?
So they can be amongst their own you understand? Give them their own shops, cafes etc?

How about a wall around them? Keep them together and that way the vaccinated can enjoy the public spaces without fear?

I cannot believe I'm even having to read about ideas like this.
Uggers, I hope you still pop back into the discussion. In answer to your first question can I believe I'm writing this a year ago? Yes and no. I hate lockdown, I hate restrictions its caused and the trips cancelled and gatherings missed. I sincerly hoped my colleagues were over reacting. But they weren't. When this started I believed a vaccine was the only real answer. But now the answer is here and I read of people strongly against it then its massively disheartening. Its the drowning man in the river analogy. You need help. Someone throws you a rope to your perch but you complain the rope might chaff? The dingy makes you nauseous and the boat clastrophobia. So you wait till a better solution comes along?

I'm all for choice but with reason. I've already said I'm reluctant on flu vaccine, and I've not yet had it this season. But covid is another matter and I'm in full agreement with Prof on this that we need greater uptake and hope that most will take it when offered.

I probably didn't clarify my thoughts on the separate areas opt in. If COVID isn't under control and with enough uptake of vaccine, I can (unfortunately) invisage a time when if I'm with my partner in a restaurant we would be happy to sit wherever. But if I took mum out for a meal I'd ask to be in a "socially distanced area" where staff maybe still where masks and tables are further apart or guests show they are negative. I'm not talking about leper villages here. Just a way of ensuring my family and myself are safe. In the same way I wouldn't want to stand next to a smoker outdoors in a pub garden. I have every right to protect myself. Do I shield my parents or hope that society takes steps to ensure ALL are safe? Without using selfish reasons to justify it.

I stress that this thought/suggestion of segregation is for an endemic situation with low enough vaccine uptake to cause worry. But do you see what I'm getting at?

I really do hope that vaccine uptake is adequate though! So yes I can't believe I'm writing anout segregation but I'm also aware that us humans are an eclectic bunch so not entirely surprised either!


Edited by shost on Thursday 4th March 11:52


Edited by shost on Thursday 4th March 11:56

Lily the Pink

3,579 posts

134 months

Thursday 4th March
quotequote all
shost said:
I probably didn't clarify my thoughts on the separate areas opt in. If COVID isn't under control and with enough uptake of vaccine, I can (unfortunately) invisage a time when if I'm with my partner in a restaurant we would be happy to sit wherever. But if I took mum out for a meal I'd ask to be in a "socially distanced area" where staff maybe still where masks and tables are further apart or guests show they are negative. I'm not talking about leper villages here. Just a way of ensuring my family and myself are safe. In the same way I wouldn't want to stand next to a smoker outdoors in a pub garden. I have every right to protect myself. Do I shield my parents or hope that society takes steps to ensure ALL are safe? Without using selfish reasons to justify it.
I don't quite get the logic of this. If you and your party have all had the vaccine, then the chance of you catching and suffering from Covid are - as I understand it - negligible. It's nothing like standing next to a smoker, where the stink and smoke are objectionable in themselves (though the chances of catching cancer from them is also negligible).

Prof Prolapse

15,519 posts

154 months

Friday 5th March
quotequote all
Cyprus today announced they'd reopen to vaccinated tourists from May.

I wonder how many of those who do not want the COVID vaccine would refuse their "holiday jabs" when going abroad?


shost

Original Poster:

810 posts

107 months

Friday 5th March
quotequote all
Lily the Pink said:
I don't quite get the logic of this. If you and your party have all had the vaccine, then the chance of you catching and suffering from Covid are - as I understand it - negligible. It's nothing like standing next to a smoker, where the stink and smoke are objectionable in themselves (though the chances of catching cancer from them is also negligible).
The chances are negligible to the current strain, but if prevalence is high then mutations are high then it’s anyone’s guess.

And whilst stood next to a smoker for 30mins isn’t going to give me cancer or lung disease, sitting next to an unvaccinated assymptomatic young person carrying a new strain of COVID for 30 mins could potentially cause a hospital admission for a vulnerable person.