Does anyone know an Anti Covid vaxxer?
Discussion
red22 said:
As you are a healthcare professional shouldn't you be more concerned with the amount of NHS refusing it or requiring staff to have the track and trace app but yelling them to turn if off at work? Also why bother with a vaccine that up to 70% effect, do you own anything that is only works 2/3 of the time.
Not being argumentative just interested. Apart from the hardcore that won't touch any sort of vaccine, it still leaves a massive amount of people who don't want it. I wouldn't have had it, but got offered the Pfizer one so did.
If you're inclined to be suspicious about these things, you don't think there's a system so sophisticated it can create a malign or dangerous vaccine and hide the whole scheme from the world, but can't give you a bottle of mind-control juice with a cheeky Pfizer label on it?Not being argumentative just interested. Apart from the hardcore that won't touch any sort of vaccine, it still leaves a massive amount of people who don't want it. I wouldn't have had it, but got offered the Pfizer one so did.
If you think it's all a swizz, you'd have to accept you have no idea what was actually in the vaccine you volunteered for, regardless of the label on the bottle.
If you don't think it's all a swizz, then you did exactly the right thing, for your health and that of everyone else.
Boobonman said:
I've heard people say that they don't want a vaccine for something with a 99.7% survival rate, and I get that.
It isn’t 99.7% though. Theres a figure floating around that it’s ‘99.97% survival rate’ which is derived from the current death rate worldwide being ‘0.03’ which the worlds numbskulls think is taken away from 100 without realising 0.03 is 3%, so a survival rate of 97% ie 100 times higher. Anyway that aside, the worldwide average is 3% but we stopped giving recovery numbers early on so we can’t calculate it here. But it’s certainly waaay above average here as we’ve been hard hit. Additionally only about 2/3 of those that go into hospital walk out.
On the basis only Covid chooses who to kill I’m having the vaccine and the anti vaxxers who also want to flout every recommendation to reduce infection can f
k right off down the road as far as I’m concerned.Prof Prolapse said:
Educated guess would be they are confident of immunity due to their high levels of exposure, and can't take time off for the harmless (but unpleasant) side effects of the vaccine.
I had the Pfizer vaccine on Tuesday and the only side effect I have had is a slightly sore arm. No worse than the normal flu jab though and definitely not worth taking time off work. I am going to have the vaccine despite my scepticism about it and a sincere belief that the government will suppress any concerns about the vaccine.
I think it has been rushed through, I think the long-term sides are as yet unknown and I also think that if I contract COVID I'll be fine.
I am all for following one's own path. But I think this is a situation where there will be disruptive consequences for those who don't have it. Holidays, restaurants and who knows what else may become off limits to those who have declined.
shost said:
I'm a healthcare professional. I frequent twitter for the usual multitude of reasons but find the number and of ferocity anti covid vaxxers/covid deniers really quite alarming.
I'm sure some of these accounts are bots and a few just odd balls.
But I don't know anyone, at least anongst my circle or who would admit at least.
Really curious to see is there anyone on this forum who thinks its all a hoax or over response or does anyone know someone well. What has been their logic? Have they changed their mind or doubled down?
I don't want to get into heated arguments, though this is PH afterall, but at least I assume that most posters here are actual people.
None? Really? I don't think there is a shortage of scepticism within healthcare professionals.I'm sure some of these accounts are bots and a few just odd balls.
But I don't know anyone, at least anongst my circle or who would admit at least.
Really curious to see is there anyone on this forum who thinks its all a hoax or over response or does anyone know someone well. What has been their logic? Have they changed their mind or doubled down?
I don't want to get into heated arguments, though this is PH afterall, but at least I assume that most posters here are actual people.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2021/01/02/...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-9104845...
I'm sure they're all just bots and a few oddballs.
Have you had it? Will you?
Pete102 said:
If you're going to disparage people on their lack of knowledge regarding probability you should state that in terms of risk its the probability (likelihood) of a car failing on any given day in a catastrophic manner (consequence).
Your vaccine analogy is correct, if a little simplistic - Its the likelihood of virus transmission (which incorporates a hole host of variables) leading to hospitalisation or fatality (consequence). Interestingly enough, when we look to reduce risk its done primarily on the 'likelihood' element and not the 'consequence element' but in the case of vaccines its working to mitigate the consequence from fatality / hospitality down to illness / feeling stty. This is what reduces the risk profile.
Those that choose not to take the vaccine have exactly the same likelihood of catching it (assuming no reduction in transmissibility) but a much increased consequence severity. Adding to this, those that work in healthcare environments have a much increased likelihood of catching the virus, hence higher risk.
I see this repeatedly touted on the internet. Some vaccines reduce a disease’s ability to spread, some don’t. Anti Vaxers have jumped on the “some don’t” part and have declared it as a fact. Studies in Israel however have shown it does reduce the spread.Your vaccine analogy is correct, if a little simplistic - Its the likelihood of virus transmission (which incorporates a hole host of variables) leading to hospitalisation or fatality (consequence). Interestingly enough, when we look to reduce risk its done primarily on the 'likelihood' element and not the 'consequence element' but in the case of vaccines its working to mitigate the consequence from fatality / hospitality down to illness / feeling s
tty. This is what reduces the risk profile. Those that choose not to take the vaccine have exactly the same likelihood of catching it (assuming no reduction in transmissibility) but a much increased consequence severity. Adding to this, those that work in healthcare environments have a much increased likelihood of catching the virus, hence higher risk.
Regarding the efficacy, the second dose greatly increases this.
Regarding the rushed trials, this is just an excuse by those who have already made their mind up but know nothing about medical trials. The numbers tested and duration is as required, with the results peer reviewed. This is far more than can be said for all the herbal remedies that people like buy. Same for “long term effects” concern. You could apply that to so many things that you put in your body, but no one worries about it because no one has started a hype.
Finally, regarding the “I’m young so don’t have to worry about it” argument, I refer you back to the reduction in transmission. When did it become socially acceptable to be so selfish that people refuse to reduce the risk of death to a different sector of society (e.g. the over 50s) because of completely unsubstantiated and debunked imaginary risks that they heard from the unreliable source that is social media?
Edit- “Effect” not “affect”.
Nampahc Niloc said:
I see this repeatedly touted on the internet. Some vaccines reduce a disease’s ability to spread, some don’t. Anti Vaxers have jumped on the “some don’t” part and have declared it as a fact. Studies in Israel however have shown it does reduce the spread.
Regarding the efficacy, the second dose greatly increases this.
Regarding the rushed trials, this is just an excuse by those who have already made their mind up but know nothing about medical trials. The numbers tested and duration is as required, with the results peer reviewed. This is far more than can be said for all the herbal remedies that people like buy. Same for “long term effects” concern. You could apply that to so many things that you put in your body, but no one worries about it because no one has started a hype.
Finally, regarding the “I’m young so don’t have to worry about it” argument, I refer you back to the reduction in transmission. When did it become socially acceptable to be so selfish that people refuse to reduce the risk of death to a different sector of society (e.g. the over 50s) because of completely unsubstantiated and debunked imaginary risks that they heard from the unreliable source that is social media?
Edit- “Effect” not “affect”.
Absolutely. And the idea that it doesn’t affect the young is a myth. It may not affect the fit & healthy as much but as I’ve said only Covid decides who to knacker.Regarding the efficacy, the second dose greatly increases this.
Regarding the rushed trials, this is just an excuse by those who have already made their mind up but know nothing about medical trials. The numbers tested and duration is as required, with the results peer reviewed. This is far more than can be said for all the herbal remedies that people like buy. Same for “long term effects” concern. You could apply that to so many things that you put in your body, but no one worries about it because no one has started a hype.
Finally, regarding the “I’m young so don’t have to worry about it” argument, I refer you back to the reduction in transmission. When did it become socially acceptable to be so selfish that people refuse to reduce the risk of death to a different sector of society (e.g. the over 50s) because of completely unsubstantiated and debunked imaginary risks that they heard from the unreliable source that is social media?
Edit- “Effect” not “affect”.
Louis Balfour said:
I am going to have the vaccine despite my scepticism about it and a sincere belief that the government will suppress any concerns about the vaccine.
I think it has been rushed through, I think the long-term sides are as yet unknown and I also think that if I contract COVID I'll be fine.
I am all for following one's own path. But I think this is a situation where there will be disruptive consequences for those who don't have it. Holidays, restaurants and who knows what else may become off limits to those who have declined.
Absolutely this!I think it has been rushed through, I think the long-term sides are as yet unknown and I also think that if I contract COVID I'll be fine.
I am all for following one's own path. But I think this is a situation where there will be disruptive consequences for those who don't have it. Holidays, restaurants and who knows what else may become off limits to those who have declined.
Covid exists, I'm sure I'm one of the people that had it during the December hit. I take all the precautions with masks, sanitisation and social distancing.
I'm not keen on having the vaccines as mentioned it's been rushed through and long term is an unknown quantity, but I don't see that I have a choice in the matter if I want get back to living a decent quality of life and not be socially ostricized, even if you believe what you read to the point of my job being at risk.
Also, the notion that every person who doesn't want the vaccine is a cretin is laughable.
NordicCrankShaft said:
Also, the notion that every person who doesn't want the vaccine is a cretin is laughable.
There are a number of reasons why someone may not want the vaccine but if it’s purely because of social media rubbish or because their mate Shaz has told them what she was told by Trace then yes, they are cretins. Red9zero said:
Prof Prolapse said:
Educated guess would be they are confident of immunity due to their high levels of exposure, and can't take time off for the harmless (but unpleasant) side effects of the vaccine.
I had the Pfizer vaccine on Tuesday and the only side effect I have had is a slightly sore arm. No worse than the normal flu jab though and definitely not worth taking time off work. My Israeli colleagues were having a bit of a time of it, and they're all 30 something healthy folk.
As an aside IMO the C19 App should be promoted at all vax sites, it’s bad the way it’s been pushed to one side but it’s the one source of National data that’s been used for the strategic decisions and spread etc for the last year. It got to 4m users quickly but 6 months to get another 600k.
Prof Prolapse said:
Red9zero said:
Prof Prolapse said:
Educated guess would be they are confident of immunity due to their high levels of exposure, and can't take time off for the harmless (but unpleasant) side effects of the vaccine.
I had the Pfizer vaccine on Tuesday and the only side effect I have had is a slightly sore arm. No worse than the normal flu jab though and definitely not worth taking time off work. My Israeli colleagues were having a bit of a time of it, and they're all 30 something healthy folk.
Just finally getting to sit down and respond. Some points have been already responded to so I’ll focus on what I know or believe.
I have briefly looked at the other threads but that’s a task in itself and I’ll try to read through more.
At my trust over 20,000 staff had been vaccinated, I’m checking what proportion that equates to.
Globally I can’t comment, but I’m sure fear of effects and testing features. One or two colleague were also concerned, but all have still had it, but perhaps weren’t pushing to front of the queue. Everything is experimental. Short term effects have been studied and the mechanism of action analysed to ensure risks are reduced. To keep with the motoring analogy most cars are tested to destruction (lab rats) and yet still when sold to public one or two catch fire or break down out of several thousand units. But they don’t all explode randomly. Unless it’s a JLR product.
70% effective - yes I’d take it and I have had mine. I think 70% effective in nature is a good result. In sport, that’s bloody brilliant. Lewis Hamilton only won 64.7% of races this year...
I’d love to say COVID is not that big a issue, but really it is. Hospital admissions are the key one here as increased cases is muddied by the vastly increased testing. Our area despite being relatively unscathed the first time was hit hard second time.
So I’m still curious to know more about those who don’t believe the vaccine and why. Does seem from replies that they are still in the minority.
Lastly data from our trust would suggest deaths occur in 40 year olds upwards, ramping up with each decade to around 4%. ITU has death rate of around 55% of all admissions, and we should know that COVID can have significant lasting effects in all ages.
I have briefly looked at the other threads but that’s a task in itself and I’ll try to read through more.
At my trust over 20,000 staff had been vaccinated, I’m checking what proportion that equates to.
Globally I can’t comment, but I’m sure fear of effects and testing features. One or two colleague were also concerned, but all have still had it, but perhaps weren’t pushing to front of the queue. Everything is experimental. Short term effects have been studied and the mechanism of action analysed to ensure risks are reduced. To keep with the motoring analogy most cars are tested to destruction (lab rats) and yet still when sold to public one or two catch fire or break down out of several thousand units. But they don’t all explode randomly. Unless it’s a JLR product.
70% effective - yes I’d take it and I have had mine. I think 70% effective in nature is a good result. In sport, that’s bloody brilliant. Lewis Hamilton only won 64.7% of races this year...
I’d love to say COVID is not that big a issue, but really it is. Hospital admissions are the key one here as increased cases is muddied by the vastly increased testing. Our area despite being relatively unscathed the first time was hit hard second time.
So I’m still curious to know more about those who don’t believe the vaccine and why. Does seem from replies that they are still in the minority.
Lastly data from our trust would suggest deaths occur in 40 year olds upwards, ramping up with each decade to around 4%. ITU has death rate of around 55% of all admissions, and we should know that COVID can have significant lasting effects in all ages.
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