Does anyone know an Anti Covid vaxxer?

Does anyone know an Anti Covid vaxxer?

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shost

Original Poster:

810 posts

107 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
In response to Uggers question, I think Prof hss answered it really.

The Corona type virus has been around a while and it is different to a influenza virus in terms of structure. Specifically the protein molecules that the virus present that allow then to get into lung tissue.

We had developed influenza vaccines but never one for a corona virus - which to me does seem strange given the ease in which one was developed when the need was there.

However like influenza, Corona virus are now endemic and sadly I accept part of life. The "we need to live with this" statement is meant to mean we need to protect and react to this for ever. Not "oh lets just ignore it and us healthy young people will be fine".

Such is the high risk of this virus we do need huge numbers vaccinated and rolling vaccination programs if we are to live with it.


ben5575

3,948 posts

185 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
shost said:
In response to Uggers question, I think Prof hss answered it really.

The Corona type virus has been around a while and it is different to a influenza virus in terms of structure. Specifically the protein molecules that the virus present that allow then to get into lung tissue.

We had developed influenza vaccines but never one for a corona virus - which to me does seem strange given the ease in which one was developed when the need was there.

However like influenza, Corona virus are now endemic and sadly I accept part of life. The "we need to live with this" statement is meant to mean we need to protect and react to this for ever. Not "oh lets just ignore it and us healthy young people will be fine".

Such is the high risk of this virus we do need huge numbers vaccinated and rolling vaccination programs if we are to live with it.
+1

shost

Original Poster:

810 posts

107 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
Uggers said:
Prof Prolapse said:
I'm not sure of the relevance of the question. How does the ongoing global economic cost of vaccination effect you getting a vaccine at this moment?

Are you suggesting you're somehow hoping to reduce national debt and be a martyr to the financial institutions by not taking your medicine?

It's impossible to predict cost at this point. But vaccination programs cost hugely less than the economic and human consequences of not implementing them. That's the whole point, and they do this very well.

Vaccines really aren't that expensive. In the first eight months of last year the UK borrowed an addition £188billion above par, this was allegedly due to the effects of the pandemic. Now, the Moderna jab costs ~£26, Oxford jab ~£3, Pfizer ~£15. So compared to just eight months of additional borrowing, our country alone could have vaccinated the entire world, for many years.

Again, vaccination programs make enormous economic sense.
We decided that all the elderly and vulnerable should be vaccinated first as an order of priority domestically. Get the deaths down and open up the economy.

But that approach doesn't work on a worldwide scale?
Unfortunately the world let the virus get too endemic for that to work now. Its too prevalent. So the risk of mutation is too large. Especially for thise countries such as Brazil and Tanzania burying their heads in the sand.

TwigtheWonderkid

35,181 posts

114 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
ben5575 said:
shost said:
Lots of replies to catch up on, thank you to all who have contributed so far!

Theme with those not wanting a vaccination appears to fall into a few categories:

1. Total deniers
2. Deny vaccine/medications in general
3. Concern about short side effects
4. Concern about long term side effects
5. COVID isn’t a big a problem
6. Young and healthy so don’t need it
I think that's a fair summation. I would perhaps add in 7. Those who don't respond well to attempts to manipulation/being told what to do.
That's the kind of thing people come out with because they think it makes them edgy and special. Whereas in fact it applies to most adults. Very few adults like to be told what to do. But situations occur daily when we do what we're told to do, because it's obviously the right thing to do. We don't go swimming when the red flag it flying at the beach, we don't climb electricity pylons for a better view.

We're being told to get the jab because it's the sensible course of action. Saying "I'm not going to be told what to do" is just childish nonsense. It doesn't make you special, ......special needs maybe.

Muzzer79

4,544 posts

151 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
TwigtheWonderkid said:
ben5575 said:
I would perhaps add in 7. Those who don't respond well to attempts to manipulation/being told what to do.
That's the kind of thing people come out with because they think it makes them edgy and special. Whereas in fact it applies to most adults. Very few adults like to be told what to do. But situations occur daily when we do what we're told to do, because it's obviously the right thing to do. We don't go swimming when the red flag it flying at the beach, we don't climb electricity pylons for a better view.

We're being told to get the jab because it's the sensible course of action. Saying "I'm not going to be told what to do" is just childish nonsense. It doesn't make you special, ......special needs maybe.
A very good point.

"No-one will tell me what to do" is usually a phrase uttered by idiots with authority complexes who can't tell the difference between sensible instructions for their own good and dictatorships.

shost

Original Poster:

810 posts

107 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
monkfish1 said:
You have, reather neatly, demonstrated my point about risk.

The risk of an RTA isnt anything like 1 in 200 in a life time. In a really crude calculation its 1 in 4700 or so over a lifetime. In a year its 1 in 87,000. (based on2019 nuners) Covid wont be a threat for ever, so "lifetime" nubers dont mean much.

I'll accept as time rolls on and the death numbers go up, the statistical chance of dying from covid has actually just got slightly worse (for me) than driving, but only just. Ive not stopped driving? Have you?

So, ignoring driving, if the chances of dying from covid is circa i in 80,000. The numbers dont really take into account how fat you are, which im not, so id suggest my risk is lower, but its not possible to take it down accurately to an individual level. I might have something that makes my risk higher. I dont know about, but its possible. The vaccine needs to be demonstrably better than that. It could well be, hope it is, but no one can say right now what the long term effects are. In "some" years time, we will have data and if it looks good, great, i'll take it. Right now, no chance. If other people want to be part of a widespread trial, thats good for them. They have a different view of risk.

Im not really interested in long covid, getting covid, feeling unwell etc. Thats all temporary and will likely pass (except a small number of cases maybe) and thats just life. Ive been ill before, and doubtless will be again. Im only concerned about dying or suffering permanently something which would change my life.
I agree driving is safe (and the stats are vague at best!) but why is it safe? Its not because we ignored advances in safety. Three point seatbelts can cause plenty of injuries, airbags cause burns and lung irritation but would you prefer to drive a car without these advances? I'm pretty sure the same sort of discussion were had when these were made compulsory. The vaccine is our seatbelt/airbag/auto emergency braking right? Though I've not met anyone who likes lane control...

We can't be sure about individual risk both from covid or the vaccine, but going back to Pandremix the narcolepsy risk was 1 in 18,000-27,000. Thats 0.005% risk if say its 1 in 20,000. That risk minuscule. Thats 1,000 out of the 2,000,000 vaccinated getting a side effect. Granted if you feel thats still more than 1 in 80,000 you quote (I'm not sure yout working on that one but lets ignore that for now) but still the data for this vaccine is already great. We haven't had wards filling with vaccine side effects and we are reducing our bed capacities not increasing it.

But as I've posted in reply to others corona viruses are here to stay. So even though potential infections and complications from the virus may pass, another version of it will be along to get you again.

ben5575

3,948 posts

185 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
TwigtheWonderkid said:
ben5575 said:
shost said:
Lots of replies to catch up on, thank you to all who have contributed so far!

Theme with those not wanting a vaccination appears to fall into a few categories:

1. Total deniers
2. Deny vaccine/medications in general
3. Concern about short side effects
4. Concern about long term side effects
5. COVID isn’t a big a problem
6. Young and healthy so don’t need it
I think that's a fair summation. I would perhaps add in 7. Those who don't respond well to attempts to manipulation/being told what to do.
That's the kind of thing people come out with because they think it makes them edgy and special. Whereas in fact it applies to most adults. Very few adults like to be told what to do. But situations occur daily when we do what we're told to do, because it's obviously the right thing to do. We don't go swimming when the red flag it flying at the beach, we don't climb electricity pylons for a better view.

We're being told to get the jab because it's the sensible course of action. Saying "I'm not going to be told what to do" is just childish nonsense. It doesn't make you special, ......special needs maybe.
I disagree with your first para as evidenced by a seemingly large proportion of the population over the past 12 months. The covid response has also been far more than a simple red flag, it's been the wholesale (sp?) manipulation of the population in an attempt to get them to behave in a particular way. I don't infer any nefarious motive or conspiracy in saying that. It's not easy to try and coerce 68m people to change their behaviour, that's why they have behavioural scientists sitting on SAGE.

I do however agree with your second para. It is indeed childish. But in the spirit of my above point, calling them special needs ain't going to change their behaviour. Quite the opposite in fact and it is in all of our interests for them to have the jab. Necks need winding in on both sides.

grumbledoak

28,498 posts

197 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
AlvinSultana said:
Deaths zero attributed to the vaccine. But you know that.

Some people die after drinking water. Others die after writing pithy forum posts.

Evian needn't be concerned, and I am sure your wit will remain undiminished by the hand of the reaper. Praise the lord.
Death within 28 days of a PCR test on one side. I wonder what you have to do to be classed as a vaccine death?

Israel’s numbers might yet prove interesting.


TwigtheWonderkid

35,181 posts

114 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
ben5575 said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
ben5575 said:
shost said:
Lots of replies to catch up on, thank you to all who have contributed so far!

Theme with those not wanting a vaccination appears to fall into a few categories:

1. Total deniers
2. Deny vaccine/medications in general
3. Concern about short side effects
4. Concern about long term side effects
5. COVID isn’t a big a problem
6. Young and healthy so don’t need it
I think that's a fair summation. I would perhaps add in 7. Those who don't respond well to attempts to manipulation/being told what to do.
That's the kind of thing people come out with because they think it makes them edgy and special. Whereas in fact it applies to most adults. Very few adults like to be told what to do. But situations occur daily when we do what we're told to do, because it's obviously the right thing to do. We don't go swimming when the red flag it flying at the beach, we don't climb electricity pylons for a better view.

We're being told to get the jab because it's the sensible course of action. Saying "I'm not going to be told what to do" is just childish nonsense. It doesn't make you special, ......special needs maybe.
I disagree with your first para as evidenced by a seemingly large proportion of the population over the past 12 months. The covid response has also been far more than a simple red flag, it's been the wholesale (sp?) manipulation of the population in an attempt to get them to behave in a particular way. I don't infer any nefarious motive or conspiracy in saying that. It's not easy to try and coerce 68m people to change their behaviour, that's why they have behavioural scientists sitting on SAGE.
What I'm saying is none of us have liked it. No one I know has said "I'm glad the govt is telling me how to live my life, because I wasn't sure how to go about it". So none of us like being told what to do. The vast majority of us however realise that we need to do it anyway. Those who say "I don't like being told what to do" aren't special or edgy, they are normal. But those who then do something else out of spite, when doing what you were told to do was the right thing to do, are idiots.

V6 Pushfit

16,196 posts

74 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
AlvinSultana said:
Sorry ?

A) Which error in reading the figures are you referring to ?

My data was taken from here : https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinatio...

B) How is that relevant to Bill Gates being in control of the biggest sleeper botnet since the last great big sleeper botnet.
Ah a troll. Apologies I thought your post was serious.

otolith

43,949 posts

168 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
grumbledoak said:
Death within 28 days of a PCR test on one side. I wonder what you have to do to be classed as a vaccine death?

Israel’s numbers might yet prove interesting.
We've vaccinated 1/3 of the population in a couple of months. If it were killing people you'd be able to see the evidence stacked up in trucks outside the morgues.

V6 Pushfit

16,196 posts

74 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
monkfish1 said:
You have, reather neatly, demonstrated my point about risk.

The risk of an RTA isnt anything like 1 in 200 in a life time.

So, ignoring driving, if the chances of dying from covid is circa i in 80,000.
What??? The chances of dying of Covid are zero if you don’t get it. They are circa 3 in 100 if you do.

So IF the risk of an RTA is 1 in 200 then catching Covid is like having 9 lifetimes of driving risk rolled into 14 days.

AlvinSultana

664 posts

113 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
V6 Pushfit said:
AlvinSultana said:
Sorry ?

A) Which error in reading the figures are you referring to ?

My data was taken from here : https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinatio...

B) How is that relevant to Bill Gates being in control of the biggest sleeper botnet since the last great big sleeper botnet.
Ah a troll. Apologies I thought your post was serious.
I really have no idea what you are taking about.

20.5m comes from official government stats. Quoting that makes me a troll ?



Prof Prolapse

15,515 posts

154 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
I don't think people are really understanding the death figure very well. It's not just about those who have died within 28 days of a positive COVID test (123,296 in total so far btw!)

The excess deaths since 7th March 2020 stands at 121,711 people. That's a massive amount more than the modelling predictions.

This is the crucial number that seems to be passing a lot of people by. The pandemic, not just the virus, is killing vast numbers of people. A pandemic for which the only current escape is a strong vaccination program.

A simple graph;







Edited by Prof Prolapse on Wednesday 3rd March 14:15

Lily the Pink

3,578 posts

134 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
Prof Prolapse said:
A simple graph;

I'm intrigued by that. It looks like a steady fall until about 2012-13, but rising since then - why would that be ?

HappyMidget

5,887 posts

79 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
Lily the Pink said:
I'm intrigued by that. It looks like a steady fall until about 2012-13, but rising since then - why would that be ?
Fatties I guess... wink

PrinceRupert

10,187 posts

49 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
My sister is an ICU nurse and is refusing the vaccine.

Moron

Harrison Bergeron

4,029 posts

186 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
V6 Pushfit said:
monkfish1 said:
You have, reather neatly, demonstrated my point about risk.

The risk of an RTA isnt anything like 1 in 200 in a life time.

So, ignoring driving, if the chances of dying from covid is circa i in 80,000.
What??? The chances of dying of Covid are zero if you don’t get it. They are circa 3 in 100 if you do.

So IF the risk of an RTA is 1 in 200 then catching Covid is like having 9 lifetimes of driving risk rolled into 14 days.
Heavily skewed toward the old and fat(And those that know PaulGuitar)

TwigtheWonderkid

35,181 posts

114 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
All this talk about a low death rate, we have to remember that the death toll is artificially low because of lockdowns, masks, etc, and limiting the amount of infections, or at least spreading them out over a greater timescale. Everyone who has become seriously ill has managed to get hospital treatment, been found a place in intensive care if required, and has had the opportunity to recover. And the majority have.

Had we not done that, hundreds of thousands of people who have recovered in hospital would not have been able to get treated in hospital, and would have died.

TwigtheWonderkid

35,181 posts

114 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
Harrison Bergeron said:
Heavily skewed toward the old and fat
Are old slim people immune, along with the fat middle aged?